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1802 vs 1805/6

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  • Magnus
    Yo! I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop here in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF COURSE there was
    Message 1 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
      Yo!

      I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop here in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF COURSE there was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also 1805/6. The latter has some extra functions like internal timers/counters and extra instruxctions.
      My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802 "just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work brilliant w/o the extra frills and laces?

      I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in Sweden any longer.

      /Magnus

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Bob Armstrong
      Magnus, ... just in case Two things - * The 1805/6 doesn t have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional Popular Electronics Elf style lights and
      Message 2 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
        Magnus,

        >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
        "just in case

        Two things -

        * The 1805/6 doesn't have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional
        Popular Electronics Elf style lights and switches "front panel" then you
        must have the 1802.

        * The 1805/6 does have some nice extra instructions, but AFAIK there's no
        software floating around out there for the 180x that uses them. So unless
        you're planning to write a lot of your own software, the extra opcodes are
        pointless.

        Bob Armstrong
      • Magnus
        Hello Bob! Thanks a lot for your answers. However there were so much more nice stuff in the list: CDP1851, 1852, 1853, 1856, 1857, 1858, 1859, 1861, 1867,
        Message 3 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
          Hello Bob!

          Thanks a lot for your answers. However there were so much more nice stuff in the list:
          CDP1851, 1852, 1853, 1856, 1857, 1858, 1859, 1861, 1867, 1868, 1870, 1871, 1872, 1877, 1879 and some more ...

          Magnus

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Bob Armstrong
          To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2010 4:31 PM
          Subject: RE: [cosmacelf] 1802 vs 1805/6



          Magnus,

          >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
          "just in case

          Two things -

          * The 1805/6 doesn't have LOAD mode, so if you plan to use a traditional
          Popular Electronics Elf style lights and switches "front panel" then you
          must have the 1802.

          * The 1805/6 does have some nice extra instructions, but AFAIK there's no
          software floating around out there for the 180x that uses them. So unless
          you're planning to write a lot of your own software, the extra opcodes are
          pointless.

          Bob Armstrong





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Art G. Granzeier III
          Magnus, Nice find. The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6, as you mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful.
          Message 4 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
            Magnus,

            Nice find.

            The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6, as you
            mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful. However,
            what it is lacking is the Program Load mode built in to the processor. If
            you are running a system with a ROM startup routine, then the 1805 will
            work fine (it is fully object code compatible with the 1802), but if you
            are running a Classic Elf-class system with no ROM and the toggle switches
            to load your programs, then the 1805 will not work. This is mentioned in
            Spare Time Gizmo's Elf 2000 manual (pg. 2, the last bullet point under the
            Overview.)


            --
            Art G. Granzeier III
            President, Granzeier Consulting
            Helping to build a better engineer.


            1802 vs 1805/6
            Posted by: "Magnus" tubes@... soundbrigade
            Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:14 am (PDT)


            >Yo!
            >
            >I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop
            here >in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF
            COURSE there >was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also
            1805/6. The latter >has some extra functions like internal
            timers/counters and extra >instruxctions.
            >My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802
            >"just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work
            brilliant >w/o the extra frills and laces?
            >
            >I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC
            >sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in
            Sweden >any longer.
            >
            >/Magnus
          • Ray Sills
            Hi Art: Hmmm. That suggests that you could put an 1805 or 1806 into a VIP. The VIP has an OS in ROM, which is invoked when you hold down the hexpad key C
            Message 5 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
              Hi Art:

              Hmmm. That suggests that you could put an 1805 or 1806 into a VIP.
              The VIP has an "OS" in ROM, which is invoked when you hold down the
              hexpad key "C" when switching to RUN mode. Now the question becomes,
              would those extra instructions really be useful on the VIP platform?

              73 de Ray

              On Jun 26, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Art G. Granzeier III wrote:

              > Magnus,
              >
              > Nice find.
              >
              > The answer to your question is: (as usual) it depends. The 1805/6,
              > as you
              > mentioned, has more instructions and is a bit more powerful. However,
              > what it is lacking is the Program Load mode built in to the
              > processor. If
              > you are running a system with a ROM startup routine, then the 1805
              > will
              > work fine (it is fully object code compatible with the 1802), but if
              > you
              > are running a Classic Elf-class system with no ROM and the toggle
              > switches
              > to load your programs, then the 1805 will not work. This is
              > mentioned in
              > Spare Time Gizmo's Elf 2000 manual (pg. 2, the last bullet point
              > under the
              > Overview.)
              >
              >
              > --
              > Art G. Granzeier III
              > President, Granzeier Consulting
              > Helping to build a better engineer.
              >
              >
              > 1802 vs 1805/6
              > Posted by: "Magnus" tubes@... soundbrigade
              > Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:14 am (PDT)
              >
              >
              >> Yo!
              >>
              >> I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop
              > here >in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF
              > COURSE there >was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also
              > 1805/6. The latter >has some extra functions like internal
              > timers/counters and extra >instruxctions.
              >> My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the
              >> 1802
              >> "just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work
              > brilliant >w/o the extra frills and laces?
              >>
              >> I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC
              >> sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in
              > Sweden >any longer.
              >>
              >> /Magnus
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ========================================================
              > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo!
              > Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
            • Lee Hart
              ... The 1804/5/6 are slightly improved versions of the 1802. Depending on the particular model, they have internal ROM, RAM, a timer, and some new
              Message 6 of 7 , Jun 26, 2010
                On 6/26/2010 2:14 AM, Magnus wrote:
                > Yo!
                >
                > I was looking for cheap (surplus) components at small components shop here in Sweden when I spotted lots of COSMAC chips in the list. OF COURSE there was the 1802, which I just bought on eBay ...but also 1805/6. The latter has some extra functions like internal timers/counters and extra instruxctions.
                > My question is, is there any idea to grab an 1805/06 instead of the 1802 "just in case ..." or will the original 1802 do most (all) work brilliant w/o the extra frills and laces?
                >
                > I'd be hoping to grab some latches/decoders and buffers as well as IC sockets for wiring, something I cannot find just like that here in Sweden any longer.

                The 1804/5/6 are slightly improved versions of the 1802. Depending on
                the particular model, they have internal ROM, RAM, a timer, and some new
                instructions. They were intended for single-chip microcontroller
                applications, where you ordered them with your program already in the
                internal ROM.

                Not much code was written to use the new instructions. The internal ROM
                is useless for general purpose applications; it is typically disabled so
                you can use it with external memory chips instead.

                The only thing missing in the 1804/5/6 that the 1802 has is the LOAD
                mode. Unfortunately, LOAD is used in the Elf computers for their front
                panel interface.

                I bought some 1805's on eBay for a good price. If you'd like to
                experiment, I'd be happy to swap one for an 1802.
                --
                Lee A. Hart | Ring the bells that still can ring
                814 8th Ave N | Forget the perfect offering
                Sartell MN 56377 | There is a crack in everything
                leeahart earthlink.net | That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
              • Richard
                Hello Magnus! Most of the 1800 series are a bit dated unless you want to build a computer completely retro . Among those you mentioned there also is the
                Message 7 of 7 , Jun 29, 2010
                  Hello Magnus!

                  Most of the 1800 series are a bit dated unless you want to build a computer completely 'retro'.

                  Among those you mentioned there also is the CDP1851. This one is a dual parallel IO port. Both ports can be configured for input, output, bidirectional and bit mode. I have seen that similar devices have been used to build IDE interfaces or to read input from a PS/2 keyboard or mouse. This one may be quite interesting.
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