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Re: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to obtain Viking Lander firmware

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  • didio4@aol.com
    LOLOL In a message dated 4/15/2009 7:02:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, doug@stillhq.com writes: ... Sorry - I have been trying not to do this for a while ---
    Message 1 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
      LOLOL


      In a message dated 4/15/2009 7:02:28 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      doug@... writes:





      Bill Rowe wrote:
      >
      >
      > I have to say that getting a Viking or spacecraft simulator running is
      > an exciting idea!
      >

      Sorry - I have been trying not to do this for a while --- but I just had
      to...

      Here is my interpretation of a quick voyager simulator in basic....

      ' Voyager Simulation.
      10 print "I am now this far away from Earth"
      20 print ".";
      30 goto 10

      :-)





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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • trev_nunes
      ... Haha ... But you added a semicolon the line itself is automatically terminated it would probably dump a syntax error. Besides Viking isn t as complex as
      Message 2 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
        >
        > Sorry - I have been trying not to do this for a while --- but I just had
        > to...
        >
        > Here is my interpretation of a quick voyager simulator in basic....
        >
        >
        > ' Voyager Simulation.
        > 10 print "I am now this far away from Earth"
        > 20 print ".";
        > 30 goto 10

        Haha ... But you added a semicolon the line itself is automatically terminated it would probably dump a syntax error. Besides Viking isn't as complex as Voyager so your program will work...


        #include <stdio.h>
        int main(int argc, char **argv)
        {
        while(1) {
        printf("I have an anomaly in speed that no-one can explain.\n");
        }
        return 0;
        }
      • trev_nunes
        Can you list some of the items the catalog had ? Anything related to Viking,Voyager ?
        Message 3 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
          Can you list some of the items the catalog had ? Anything related to
          Viking,Voyager ?





          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "rdoerr@..." <rdoerr@...> wrote:
          >
          > I found the old catalog. It looks like some of the
          > NASA software was available from:
          >
          > COSMIC
          > 112 Barrow Hall
          > University of Georgia
          > Athens, GA 30602
          >
          > Phone: (404) 542-3265
          > Telex: 810-754-3908 (I'd be surprised if anyone uses
          > these anymore....)
          >
          > Maybe it would be worth checking with the University
          > to see if anyone there could help.
          >
          > Robert
          >
          >
          >
          > >------- Original Message -------
          > >From :
          > rdoerr@...[mailto:rdoerr@...]
          > >Sent : 4/15/2009 4:01:03 PM
          > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
          > >Cc :
          > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
          > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
          > >
          > >I don't know if it is still around but many years ago
          > (at least in 1984) NASA made some of their software
          > available through COSMIC (Computer Software
          > Management and Inforamation Center) so that business,
          > industry, and universities would have access to their
          > software. I don't know if it will help but I may
          > still have my 1984 catalog on Microfilm. Maybe it
          > will help.
          >
          > Robert
          >
          >
          >
          > >------- Original Message -------
          > >From : trev_nunes[ mailto:trevor.nunes@...]
          > >Sent : 4/15/2009 3:47:57 PM
          > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
          > >Cc :
          > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
          > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > I have an idea though. What about de-doing the
          > code? Would bits and pieces be available, specs? It
          > couldn't have been huge.
          > >
          >
          > I think I'd like to have the real software , and not
          > fake the various components that make it up. The only
          > aspect that would be simulated would be the
          > experiments, sensor feedback and actuator control so
          > that the firmware is getting real data inputs for it
          > to run. The re-doing of components that make up the
          > Viking would be 'black box' routines that take 1802
          > signal output and respond with some other signal back
          > to the core simulation and the output might just be
          > voltage as a floating point stream into the
          > simulator. I think it would have to be a cycle
          > accurate simulator of the 1802 otherwise the
          > processing of the 'analog' signals would be incorrect
          > e.g. temperature,attitude sensor inputs. There's
          > probably lots of circuits that extended processing of
          > the 1802 that would also need to be emulated but I'm
          > getting carried away...
          >
          > We need an image that can be loaded up with some
          > information on input signals, voltages, speed. memory
          > devices ( banked memory or single ? ). It doesn't
          > have to be the raw assembly with notes in the code
          > but hey I'll take it!They also had a ground based
          > simulator based on a microcoded Mainframe tweaked to
          > run 1802 code, so there's hope yet.
          >
          >
          > The latest spacecraft use commercial S/W e.g. VxWorks
          > OS so I can understand why a modern system's software
          > would not be released. For Viking I think 35 years is
          > enough time that the math,algorithms and technology
          > have progressed to not be a threat in terms of
          > Intellectual property or National Security. We also
          > must preserve it, I think we take for granted the
          > early efforts of the 60s,70s e.g. Mariner,Pioneer etc.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > ========================================================
          > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
          > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > ------------------------------------
          >
          > ========================================================
          > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
          > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
          >
        • rdoerr@bizserve.com
          The printed portion only has some of the general subject categories. To dig deeper I ll have to see if my father still has his old Microfiche machine. Some of
          Message 4 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
            The printed portion only has some of the general
            subject categories. To dig deeper I'll have to see
            if my father still has his old Microfiche machine.
            Some of the titles in Astronautics are:

            ASTRODYNAMICS & SPACE MECHANICS
            GROUND SUPPORT SYSTEMS & FACILITIES
            LAUNCH VEHICLES & SPACE VEHICLES
            SPACE TRANSPORTATION
            SPACECRAFT COMMUNICATIONS, COMMAND, & TRACKING
            SPACECRAFT DESIGN, TESTING, & PERFORMANCE
            SPACECRAFT INSTRUMENTAITON
            SPACECRAFT PROPULSION & POWER

            Don't know if any of the items under there would
            cover the code or not. It would probably be worth
            contacting the University to see if perhaps they have
            the list online since they might have a much larger
            list that includes software that came out afterwards.

            Robert


            >------- Original Message -------
            >From : trev_nunes[mailto:trevor.nunes@...]
            >Sent : 4/15/2009 7:22:14 PM
            >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
            >Cc :
            >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
            obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
            >
            > Can you list some of the items the catalog had ?
            Anything related to
            Viking,Voyager ?





            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "rdoerr@..."
            <rdoerr@...> wrote:
            >
            > I found the old catalog. It looks like some of the
            > NASA software was available from:
            >
            > COSMIC
            > 112 Barrow Hall
            > University of Georgia
            > Athens, GA 30602
            >
            > Phone: (404) 542-3265
            > Telex: 810-754-3908 (I'd be surprised if anyone uses
            > these anymore....)
            >
            > Maybe it would be worth checking with the University
            > to see if anyone there could help.
            >
            > Robert
            >
            >
            >
            > >------- Original Message -------
            > >From :
            > rdoerr@...[ mailto:rdoerr@...]
            > >Sent : 4/15/2009 4:01:03 PM
            > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
            > >Cc :
            > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
            > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
            > >
            > >I don't know if it is still around but many years ago
            > (at least in 1984) NASA made some of their software
            > available through COSMIC (Computer Software
            > Management and Inforamation Center) so that business,
            > industry, and universities would have access to their
            > software. I don't know if it will help but I may
            > still have my 1984 catalog on Microfilm. Maybe it
            > will help.
            >
            > Robert
            >
            >
            >
            > >------- Original Message -------
            > >From : trev_nunes[ mailto:trevor.nunes@...]
            > >Sent : 4/15/2009 3:47:57 PM
            > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
            > >Cc :
            > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
            > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > I have an idea though. What about de-doing the
            > code? Would bits and pieces be available, specs? It
            > couldn't have been huge.
            > >
            >
            > I think I'd like to have the real software , and not
            > fake the various components that make it up. The only
            > aspect that would be simulated would be the
            > experiments, sensor feedback and actuator control so
            > that the firmware is getting real data inputs for it
            > to run. The re-doing of components that make up the
            > Viking would be 'black box' routines that take 1802
            > signal output and respond with some other signal back
            > to the core simulation and the output might just be
            > voltage as a floating point stream into the
            > simulator. I think it would have to be a cycle
            > accurate simulator of the 1802 otherwise the
            > processing of the 'analog' signals would be incorrect
            > e.g. temperature,attitude sensor inputs. There's
            > probably lots of circuits that extended processing of
            > the 1802 that would also need to be emulated but I'm
            > getting carried away...
            >
            > We need an image that can be loaded up with some
            > information on input signals, voltages, speed. memory
            > devices ( banked memory or single ? ). It doesn't
            > have to be the raw assembly with notes in the code
            > but hey I'll take it!They also had a ground based
            > simulator based on a microcoded Mainframe tweaked to
            > run 1802 code, so there's hope yet.
            >
            >
            > The latest spacecraft use commercial S/W e.g. VxWorks
            > OS so I can understand why a modern system's software
            > would not be released. For Viking I think 35 years is
            > enough time that the math,algorithms and technology
            > have progressed to not be a threat in terms of
            > Intellectual property or National Security. We also
            > must preserve it, I think we take for granted the
            > early efforts of the 60s,70s e.g. Mariner,Pioneer etc.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            ========================================================
            > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
            > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ------------------------------------
            >
            >
            ========================================================
            > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
            > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
            >




            ------------------------------------

            ========================================================
            Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
            http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
          • arthurok
            i think the whole viking lander was a rca project ... From: rdoerr@bizserve.com To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:25 PM
            Message 5 of 27 , Apr 15, 2009
              i think the whole viking lander was a rca project
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: rdoerr@...
              To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:25 PM
              Subject: RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?





              I found the old catalog. It looks like some of the
              NASA software was available from:

              COSMIC
              112 Barrow Hall
              University of Georgia
              Athens, GA 30602

              Phone: (404) 542-3265
              Telex: 810-754-3908 (I'd be surprised if anyone uses
              these anymore....)

              Maybe it would be worth checking with the University
              to see if anyone there could help.

              Robert

              >------- Original Message -------
              >From :
              rdoerr@...[mailto:rdoerr@...]
              >Sent : 4/15/2009 4:01:03 PM
              >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
              >Cc :
              >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
              obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
              >
              >I don't know if it is still around but many years ago
              (at least in 1984) NASA made some of their software
              available through COSMIC (Computer Software
              Management and Inforamation Center) so that business,
              industry, and universities would have access to their
              software. I don't know if it will help but I may
              still have my 1984 catalog on Microfilm. Maybe it
              will help.

              Robert

              >------- Original Message -------
              >From : trev_nunes[ mailto:trevor.nunes@...]
              >Sent : 4/15/2009 3:47:57 PM
              >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
              >Cc :
              >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
              obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
              >
              >
              >
              > I have an idea though. What about de-doing the
              code? Would bits and pieces be available, specs? It
              couldn't have been huge.
              >

              I think I'd like to have the real software , and not
              fake the various components that make it up. The only
              aspect that would be simulated would be the
              experiments, sensor feedback and actuator control so
              that the firmware is getting real data inputs for it
              to run. The re-doing of components that make up the
              Viking would be 'black box' routines that take 1802
              signal output and respond with some other signal back
              to the core simulation and the output might just be
              voltage as a floating point stream into the
              simulator. I think it would have to be a cycle
              accurate simulator of the 1802 otherwise the
              processing of the 'analog' signals would be incorrect
              e.g. temperature,attitude sensor inputs. There's
              probably lots of circuits that extended processing of
              the 1802 that would also need to be emulated but I'm
              getting carried away...

              We need an image that can be loaded up with some
              information on input signals, voltages, speed. memory
              devices ( banked memory or single ? ). It doesn't
              have to be the raw assembly with notes in the code
              but hey I'll take it!They also had a ground based
              simulator based on a microcoded Mainframe tweaked to
              run 1802 code, so there's hope yet.


              The latest spacecraft use commercial S/W e.g. VxWorks
              OS so I can understand why a modern system's software
              would not be released. For Viking I think 35 years is
              enough time that the math,algorithms and technology
              have progressed to not be a threat in terms of
              Intellectual property or National Security. We also
              must preserve it, I think we take for granted the
              early efforts of the 60s,70s e.g. Mariner,Pioneer etc.

              ------------------------------------

              ========================================================
              Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
              http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links

              ------------------------------------

              ========================================================
              Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
              http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Trevor Nunes
              The chip was RCA built but the programming and development was JPL at least I think so with the whole project coordinated at NASA. Some info here ...
              Message 6 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                The chip was RCA built but the programming and development was JPL at least
                I think so with the whole project coordinated at NASA.

                Some info here ...

                http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810001592_1981001592.pdf
                http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/nmc/masterCatalog.do?sc=1975-075C

                I've been looking ' MESS' the home computer emulation framework that
                branched from MAME project. This has a VIP emulator included and
                specifically a CDP1802. It has the concepts of machine/drivers
                inputs/outputs etc so building a spacecraft out of this framework would be a
                good start. Also includes debug hooks and other aspects.


                The data processing information can be derived from the above docs there's
                block diagrams on external inputs and details on the voltage conversions and
                multiplexing of analog signals but again need the firmware!

                Trev.




                On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 7:55 PM, arthurok <arthurok@...> wrote:

                >
                >
                > i think the whole viking lander was a rca project
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: rdoerr@... <rdoerr%40bizserve.com>
                > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com <cosmacelf%40yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 5:25 PM
                > Subject: RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to obtain Viking Lander
                > firmware for execution on 1802?
                >
                > I found the old catalog. It looks like some of the
                > NASA software was available from:
                >
                > COSMIC
                > 112 Barrow Hall
                > University of Georgia
                > Athens, GA 30602
                >
                > Phone: (404) 542-3265
                > Telex: 810-754-3908 (I'd be surprised if anyone uses
                > these anymore....)
                >
                > Maybe it would be worth checking with the University
                > to see if anyone there could help.
                >
                > Robert
                >
                > >------- Original Message -------
                > >From :
                > rdoerr@... <rdoerr%40bizserve.com>[mailto:rdoerr@...<rdoerr%40bizserve.com>
                > ]
                > >Sent : 4/15/2009 4:01:03 PM
                > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com <cosmacelf%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >Cc :
                > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
                > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
                > >
                > >I don't know if it is still around but many years ago
                > (at least in 1984) NASA made some of their software
                > available through COSMIC (Computer Software
                > Management and Inforamation Center) so that business,
                > industry, and universities would have access to their
                > software. I don't know if it will help but I may
                > still have my 1984 catalog on Microfilm. Maybe it
                > will help.
                >
                > Robert
                >
                > >------- Original Message -------
                > >From : trev_nunes[ mailto:trevor.nunes@...<trevor.nunes%40gmail.com>]
                >
                > >Sent : 4/15/2009 3:47:57 PM
                > >To : cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com <cosmacelf%40yahoogroups.com>
                > >Cc :
                > >Subject : RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Is it possible to
                > obtain Viking Lander firmware for execution on 1802?
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > I have an idea though. What about de-doing the
                > code? Would bits and pieces be available, specs? It
                > couldn't have been huge.
                > >
                >
                > I think I'd like to have the real software , and not
                > fake the various components that make it up. The only
                > aspect that would be simulated would be the
                > experiments, sensor feedback and actuator control so
                > that the firmware is getting real data inputs for it
                > to run. The re-doing of components that make up the
                > Viking would be 'black box' routines that take 1802
                > signal output and respond with some other signal back
                > to the core simulation and the output might just be
                > voltage as a floating point stream into the
                > simulator. I think it would have to be a cycle
                > accurate simulator of the 1802 otherwise the
                > processing of the 'analog' signals would be incorrect
                > e.g. temperature,attitude sensor inputs. There's
                > probably lots of circuits that extended processing of
                > the 1802 that would also need to be emulated but I'm
                > getting carried away...
                >
                > We need an image that can be loaded up with some
                > information on input signals, voltages, speed. memory
                > devices ( banked memory or single ? ). It doesn't
                > have to be the raw assembly with notes in the code
                > but hey I'll take it!They also had a ground based
                > simulator based on a microcoded Mainframe tweaked to
                > run 1802 code, so there's hope yet.
                >
                > The latest spacecraft use commercial S/W e.g. VxWorks
                > OS so I can understand why a modern system's software
                > would not be released. For Viking I think 35 years is
                > enough time that the math,algorithms and technology
                > have progressed to not be a threat in terms of
                > Intellectual property or National Security. We also
                > must preserve it, I think we take for granted the
                > early efforts of the 60s,70s e.g. Mariner,Pioneer etc.
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > ========================================================
                > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
                > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > ========================================================
                > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at
                > http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Lee Hart
                ... On a related note: I still have my old robot that I built with a VIP. How about building a terrestrial version of a Mars rover? Equip it with solar panels
                Message 7 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                  Trevor Nunes wrote:
                  > I've been looking ' MESS' the home computer emulation framework that
                  > branched from MAME project. This has a VIP emulator included and
                  > specifically a CDP1802. It has the concepts of machine/drivers
                  > inputs/outputs etc so building a spacecraft out of this framework would be a
                  > good start. Also includes debug hooks and other aspects.

                  On a related note:

                  I still have my old robot that I built with a VIP. How about building a
                  terrestrial version of a Mars rover? Equip it with solar panels for
                  power, RF communication, maybe even a camera. Send it on "missions" to
                  explore the neighborhood. Or Mt. St. Helens. Or Antarctica!

                  --
                  Ring the bells that still can ring
                  Forget the perfect offering
                  There is a crack in everything
                  That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
                  --
                  Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
                • J.C. Wren
                  ... Look for intelligent life in Washington, DC! [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                    On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > On a related note:
                    >
                    > I still have my old robot that I built with a VIP. How about building a
                    > terrestrial version of a Mars rover? Equip it with solar panels for
                    > power, RF communication, maybe even a camera. Send it on "missions" to
                    > explore the neighborhood. Or Mt. St. Helens. Or Antarctica!
                    >

                    Look for intelligent life in Washington, DC!


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Trevor Nunes
                    oooh... funny! Starting from scratch I d go with Arduino or board or some ARM based controller. Equip it with RTG s :-) ... [Non-text portions of this
                    Message 9 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                      oooh... funny! Starting from scratch I'd go with Arduino or board or some
                      ARM based controller. Equip it with RTG's :-)





                      On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:21 PM, J.C. Wren <jcwren@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 7:45 PM, Lee Hart <leeahart@...<leeahart%40earthlink.net>>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > On a related note:
                      > >
                      > > I still have my old robot that I built with a VIP. How about building a
                      > > terrestrial version of a Mars rover? Equip it with solar panels for
                      > > power, RF communication, maybe even a camera. Send it on "missions" to
                      > > explore the neighborhood. Or Mt. St. Helens. Or Antarctica!
                      > >
                      >
                      > Look for intelligent life in Washington, DC!
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Lee Hart
                      Lee Hart ... The 1802 may still have the edge on reliability, power consumption, and the ability to upload
                      Message 10 of 27 , Apr 16, 2009
                        Lee Hart <leeahart@...<leeahart%40earthlink.net>
                        >>> I still have my old robot that I built with a VIP. How about
                        >>> building a terrestrial version of a Mars rover? Equip it with
                        >>> solar panels for power, RF communication, maybe even a camera.
                        >>> Send it on "missions" to explore the neighborhood. Or Mt. St.
                        >>> Helens. Or Antarctica!

                        J.C. Wren suggested:
                        >> Look for intelligent life in Washington, DC!

                        Trevor Nunes wrote:
                        > Starting from scratch I'd go with Arduino or board or some ARM based
                        > controller. Equip it with RTG's :-)

                        The 1802 may still have the edge on reliability, power consumption, and
                        the ability to upload new programs.
                        --
                        Ring the bells that still can ring
                        Forget the perfect offering
                        There is a crack in everything
                        That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
                        --
                        Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
                      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.