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Quest Cosmac ELF board Schematic?

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  • Gary Giles
    Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest Cosmac ELF board? 73 Gary, KF9CM
    Message 1 of 17 , Mar 25, 2008
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      Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
      Cosmac ELF board?


      73 Gary, KF9CM
    • saturn5tony
      No, I d love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy and sell the thing anyways.
      Message 2 of 17 , Mar 25, 2008
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        No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
        different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy and
        sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that love
        to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.

        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@...> wrote:
        >
        > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
        > Cosmac ELF board?
        >
        >
        > 73 Gary, KF9CM
        >
      • didio4@aol.com
        Who are you calling an Old Timer ????? Not me! In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, saturn5tony@yahoo.com writes: No, I d love to
        Message 3 of 17 , Mar 25, 2008
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          Who are you calling an "Old Timer"?????

          Not me!


          In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          saturn5tony@... writes:




          No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
          different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy and
          sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that love
          to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.

          --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_ (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ,
          "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@.bu> wrote:
          >
          > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
          > Cosmac ELF board?
          >
          >
          > 73 Gary, KF9CM
          >







          **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
          Home.
          (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • druske
          Paul Messinger has previously asserted that he s the legal copyright owner of Quest materials, and he s taken issue with this sort of thing before. As an
          Message 4 of 17 , Mar 25, 2008
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            Paul Messinger has previously asserted that he's the legal copyright owner of Quest
            materials, and he's taken issue with this sort of thing before. As an example, see:
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/message/3675

            I would definitely make reasonable efforts to contact Paul before posting any Quest material.
            I'd love to see this publicly available as well, but we need to respect copyright law if this
            group is to remain viable. The last email address I had for Paul is paulm@... .

            Dave


            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@...> wrote:
            >
            > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
            > Cosmac ELF board?
            >
            >
            > 73 Gary, KF9CM
            >
          • Aurel Boisvert
            Hi Gary, Is this schematic for the early Quest Cosmac Elf, the one similar to the Cosmac Elf published in Popular Electronics in 1976. If it is would it be
            Message 5 of 17 , Mar 25, 2008
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              Hi Gary,

              Is this schematic for the early Quest Cosmac Elf,
              the one similar to the Cosmac Elf published in Popular Electronics in 1976.

              If it is would it be possible to email me a copy of it.
              Thanks

              Have a great day!/Bonne Journée!
              Aurel

              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@...>
              To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:32 AM
              Subject: [cosmacelf] Quest Cosmac ELF board Schematic?


              > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
              > Cosmac ELF board?
              >
              >
              > 73 Gary, KF9CM
              >
              >
              > ------------------------------------
              >
              > ========================================================
              > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups
              Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • tony
              IANAL, but as far as copyright goes, it only covers the exact schematic as printed by the copyright holder. If you redraw or recreate the schematic with a
              Message 6 of 17 , Mar 26, 2008
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                IANAL, but as far as copyright goes, it only covers the exact
                schematic as printed by the copyright holder. If you redraw or
                recreate the schematic with a CAD package and don't simply reproduce
                the original document then you are not infringing on anyone's
                copyright. In other words, the copyright holder does not own the
                circuit design, only the printed form of the drawing.

                Tony



                --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Aurel Boisvert" <aurel@...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi Gary,
                >
                > Is this schematic for the early Quest Cosmac Elf,
                > the one similar to the Cosmac Elf published in Popular Electronics
                in 1976.
                >
                > If it is would it be possible to email me a copy of it.
                > Thanks
                >
                > Have a great day!/Bonne Journée!
                > Aurel
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@...>
                > To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
                > Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:32 AM
                > Subject: [cosmacelf] Quest Cosmac ELF board Schematic?
                >
                >
                > > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a Quest
                > > Cosmac ELF board?
                > >
                > >
                > > 73 Gary, KF9CM
                > >
                > >
                > > ------------------------------------
                > >
                > > ========================================================
                > > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.comYahoo! Groups
                > Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
              • saturn5tony
                Look, if you built an ELF which is now 30+ YEARS!!! AGO then yes you are an OLD TIMER!!! in terms of technology you are ancient. If you just like the old stuff
                Message 7 of 17 , Mar 26, 2008
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                  Look, if you built an ELF which is now 30+ YEARS!!! AGO then yes you
                  are an OLD TIMER!!! in terms of technology you are ancient. If you
                  just like the old stuff and are fairly young then NO you are not an
                  old timer. Boy are people so touchy about thier age......
                  Not me!

                  --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, didio4@... wrote:
                  >
                  > Who are you calling an "Old Timer"?????
                  >
                  > Not me!
                  >
                  >
                  > In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                  > saturn5tony@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
                  > different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy
                  and
                  > sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that
                  love
                  > to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.
                  >
                  > --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_
                  (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ,
                  > "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a
                  Quest
                  > > Cosmac ELF board?
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > 73 Gary, KF9CM
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
                  on AOL
                  > Home.
                  > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?
                  ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                • didio4@aol.com
                  LOL!!!! Well, I may have built an original ELF, but I am certainly NOT an old timer. I have much too much life to live and will NEVER stop growing and
                  Message 8 of 17 , Mar 26, 2008
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                    LOL!!!!

                    Well, I may have built an original ELF, but I am certainly NOT an old timer.
                    I have much too much life to live and will NEVER stop growing and learning.
                    The day I do is the day I die.




                    In a message dated 3/26/2008 9:10:21 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    saturn5tony@... writes:





                    Look, if you built an ELF which is now 30+ YEARS!!! AGO then yes you
                    are an OLD TIMER!!! in terms of technology you are ancient. If you
                    just like the old stuff and are fairly young then NO you are not an
                    old timer. Boy are people so touchy about thier age......
                    Not me!

                    --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_ (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ,
                    didio4@... wrote:
                    >
                    > Who are you calling an "Old Timer"?????
                    >
                    > Not me!
                    >
                    >
                    > In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    > saturn5tony@ saturn
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
                    > different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy
                    and
                    > sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that
                    love
                    > to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.
                    >
                    > --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogro ---
                    (mailto:_cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_ (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ) ,
                    > "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@.bu> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a
                    Quest
                    > > Cosmac ELF board?
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > 73 Gary, KF9CM
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ************ ************<WBR>**Create a Home Theater Like the Pros
                    on AOL
                    > Home.
                    > (_http://home.http://home.http://home.<WBRhttp://home.<Whttp://ho_
                    (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?)
                    ncid=aolhom00030000ncid=ao
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >







                    **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video on AOL
                    Home.
                    (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?ncid=aolhom00030000000001)


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bob Armstrong
                    ... 1976. ... If you want a schematic for any COSMAC Elf version, then the Elf 2000 schematics are in the back of its manual,
                    Message 9 of 17 , Mar 26, 2008
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                      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cosmacelf%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                      "Aurel Boisvert" <aurel@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi Gary,
                      >
                      > Is this schematic for the early Quest Cosmac Elf,
                      > the one similar to the Cosmac Elf published in Popular Electronics in
                      1976.
                      >
                      > If it is would it be possible to email me a copy of it.
                      > Thanks



                      If you want a schematic for any COSMAC Elf version, then the Elf 2000
                      schematics are in the back of its manual,

                      http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/Elf2k.pdf

                      Also the schematics for the several Elf versions that Mike Riley has made
                      are on his page,

                      http://www.elf-emulation.com/hardware.html

                      The Elf 2000 manual, et al, is copyrighted under the GNU FDL. I'm not sure
                      about Mike's stuff.

                      Bob Armstrong



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • coolcash3030
                      It all depends on your starting point and what you re referring to...when the ELF was first on the cover of Pop Electronics I was the ripe old age of 14 (I am
                      Message 10 of 17 , Mar 26, 2008
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                        It all depends on your starting point and what you're referring
                        to...when the ELF was first on the cover of Pop Electronics I was the
                        ripe old age of 14 (I am sorry I did not save those 2 issues!!!!) ...
                        I am now the ripe young age of 45 and I have yet to build any ELF
                        having tinkered with everything in between since then. You can say I
                        am the 45-year-old ELF Virgin!!! LOL!

                        Nevertheless I am glad to see classic technology revived!

                        Chris

                        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "saturn5tony" <saturn5tony@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > Look, if you built an ELF which is now 30+ YEARS!!! AGO then yes you
                        > are an OLD TIMER!!! in terms of technology you are ancient. If you
                        > just like the old stuff and are fairly young then NO you are not an
                        > old timer. Boy are people so touchy about thier age......
                        > Not me!
                        >
                        > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, didio4@ wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Who are you calling an "Old Timer"?????
                        > >
                        > > Not me!
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        > > saturn5tony@ writes:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
                        > > different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy
                        > and
                        > > sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that
                        > love
                        > > to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.
                        > >
                        > > --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_
                        > (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ,
                        > > "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a
                        > Quest
                        > > > Cosmac ELF board?
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > 73 Gary, KF9CM
                        > > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
                        > on AOL
                        > > Home.
                        > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?
                        > ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        > >
                        >
                      • Stewart
                        ... It might be a good thing to acquaint newcomers with exactly who Paul Messinger is, why he holds the Quest copyrights, and more importantly why his feelings
                        Message 11 of 17 , Mar 27, 2008
                        • 0 Attachment
                          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "tony" <waterwingz2@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > IANAL, but as far as copyright goes, it only covers the exact
                          > schematic as printed by the copyright holder. If you redraw or
                          > recreate the schematic with a CAD package and don't simply reproduce
                          > the original document then you are not infringing on anyone's
                          > copyright. In other words, the copyright holder does not own the
                          > circuit design, only the printed form of the drawing.
                          >
                          > Tony

                          It might be a good thing to acquaint newcomers with exactly who Paul
                          Messinger is, why he holds the Quest copyrights, and more importantly
                          why his feelings should possibly count for something with us. Paul is
                          the engineer who was responsible for the bulk of the design work on
                          the Quest machines and salvaged at his own expense much of what was
                          materially left of the company after its demise, armloads of
                          manuscript docs, one-of-a-kind prototype machines, boxes of chips,
                          stacks of boards, etc. In addition, he is intimately familiar with
                          most other 1802 applications and the design intricacies of all of
                          Quest's competition. His career and expertise far exceeds simply the
                          Quest efforts. He was for instance engineer in overall charge of the
                          systems for the Hubbell. He may seem a bit of a curmudgeon it is
                          true, but in his defense he and his wife both have serious health
                          issues and he has some very bitter memories of the collapse of Quest,
                          a company he put his heart and soul into, and whose demise was none of
                          his fault. But he remains an absolute goldmine of anecdotes and
                          information of the pioneering days of the 1802 and is one of our last
                          real living icons of this era. He continues to love the 1802 and
                          believes in it to this day, and his passionate feelings about the
                          processor and his countless memories associated with his place at the
                          forefront of its use make him extremely and justifiably sensitive to
                          being approached in a light or cavalier manner about it, particularly
                          if he is in some pain or discomfort or worried about his wife. I have
                          myself always found Paul to be a wonderful man to deal with in person,
                          and I feel we are deeply priviledged to have his occasional visits on
                          our little List, one of the true leaders in the early use of the RCA
                          1802 for both personal computing and for its applications in space and
                          the highest scientific endeavors. There are many instances on this
                          List when he patiently sat at the keyboard and did his best to answer
                          the most pointed and precise questions about the Quest boards, despite
                          perhaps being in considerable discomfort and surely having more
                          pressing and serious things to attend to. Just my tuppence from
                          knowing something of the man and from meeting him a number of times in
                          person. I regret that many of you here have not had the immense
                          pleasure of a face to face meeting with him and in getting to know him
                          a bit better. He is an exceptional individual, absolutely unique, and
                          a brilliant intellect. -Stewart Marshall
                        • Al W,
                          Stewart, What you have said about Paul is very compassionate and understanding but all I ve ever seen from him is what was displayed on his postings.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Mar 28, 2008
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                            Stewart,

                            What you have said about Paul is very compassionate and understanding but all I've ever
                            seen from him is what was displayed on his postings. Personally I'm all out of blank-
                            checks for rudeness from "curmudgeons" and anecdotes about the old Quest company
                            only go so far with me to excuse it. Respect is a two-way street.

                            My very first online contact with him was when I answered his request to translate some
                            Quest data from his old 8" CP/M floppy disks. Things seemed to go okay at first and we
                            agreed on doing a few at a time. Immediately after that the issue of copyrights came up. I
                            have real "day-job" and don't have enough time for it let alone running issues like this by
                            my lawyer so I politely backed away from the copy request. He was very sensitive about
                            "his babies" and the operation was getting too complicated.

                            Later he "scorched my ears" a few times when I suggested ways of correcting minor
                            problems with the Super Elf and watched as he admonished others for various comments. I
                            tried to not post inflammatory replies to him but he always found something to home-in
                            on. He was very intolerant for the thoughts of others.

                            I think that we have spent way-too-much time on this topic it has had a noticeable impact
                            on the once lively and very interesting technical discussions that we used to have about
                            1802's in general.

                            I have signed off-and-on-again with this group a few times in the past when discussions
                            weren't fun anymore and it looks like it's about time for another break for me. In some
                            ways I wish I had never "rescued" the two Quest Super Elfs from the junkboxes at
                            hamfests. Along with the fun with the junk came a boatload of crap.

                            :o)

                            al winfrey
                            ....



                            We have also watched as he has dangled some of his old Quest production "booty" in front
                            of various members



                            >
                            > It might be a good thing to acquaint newcomers with exactly who Paul
                            > Messinger is, why he holds the Quest copyrights, and more importantly
                            > why his feelings should possibly count for something with us. Paul is
                            > the engineer who was responsible for the bulk of the design work on
                            > the Quest machines and salvaged at his own expense much of what was
                            > materially left of the company after its demise, armloads of
                            > manuscript docs, one-of-a-kind prototype machines, boxes of chips,
                            > stacks of boards, etc. In addition, he is intimately familiar with
                            > most other 1802 applications and the design intricacies of all of
                            > Quest's competition. His career and expertise far exceeds simply the
                            > Quest efforts. He was for instance engineer in overall charge of the
                            > systems for the Hubbell. He may seem a bit of a curmudgeon it is
                            > true, but in his defense he and his wife both have serious health
                            > issues and he has some very bitter memories of the collapse of Quest,
                            > a company he put his heart and soul into, and whose demise was none of
                            > his fault. But he remains an absolute goldmine of anecdotes and
                            > information of the pioneering days of the 1802 and is one of our last
                            > real living icons of this era. He continues to love the 1802 and
                            > believes in it to this day, and his passionate feelings about the
                            > processor and his countless memories associated with his place at the
                            > forefront of its use make him extremely and justifiably sensitive to
                            > being approached in a light or cavalier manner about it, particularly
                            > if he is in some pain or discomfort or worried about his wife. I have
                            > myself always found Paul to be a wonderful man to deal with in person,
                            > and I feel we are deeply priviledged to have his occasional visits on
                            > our little List, one of the true leaders in the early use of the RCA
                            > 1802 for both personal computing and for its applications in space and
                            > the highest scientific endeavors. There are many instances on this
                            > List when he patiently sat at the keyboard and did his best to answer
                            > the most pointed and precise questions about the Quest boards, despite
                            > perhaps being in considerable discomfort and surely having more
                            > pressing and serious things to attend to. Just my tuppence from
                            > knowing something of the man and from meeting him a number of times in
                            > person. I regret that many of you here have not had the immense
                            > pleasure of a face to face meeting with him and in getting to know him
                            > a bit better. He is an exceptional individual, absolutely unique, and
                            > a brilliant intellect. -Stewart Marshall
                            >
                          • Andrew Wasson
                            ... Nicely said Stewart. I haven t chatted with Paul (via email) for quite some time now but it sure was great to ask questions of someone who was behind the
                            Message 13 of 17 , Mar 28, 2008
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                              > It might be a good thing to acquaint newcomers with exactly who Paul
                              > Messinger is, why he holds the Quest copyrights, and more importantly...

                              Nicely said Stewart.

                              I haven't chatted with Paul (via email) for quite some time now but it
                              sure was great to ask questions of someone who was behind the scenes
                              and responsible for the computer kit I wanted when I was a kid.

                              It's a shame he hasn't been on board for a while... He posted some
                              pretty interesting articles about the end of days at Quest as well as
                              some really informative technical info about Quest expansion boards
                              and the super monitor.

                              And yes Al he is particular/sensitive about how Quest materials are
                              presented. It's a touchy subject... I didn't really follow the
                              conversations you and he had about copying the disks or Quest Elf
                              improvements so I can't really comment but I'm sure those Quest Elfs
                              you saved are just that more valuable for your rescue efforts.

                              If you don't want them, I'll take em and add them to the 4 I've got ;o)

                              Andrew
                            • Steve Gemeny
                              I think I feel like piling on with Andrew on this… Stewart, very nicely put and well worth saying. It was several years ago when I talked to Paul on the
                              Message 14 of 17 , Mar 28, 2008
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                                I' think I feel like piling on with Andrew on this…

                                Stewart, very nicely put and well worth saying.

                                It was several years ago when I talked to Paul on the phone. It was
                                a pleasure to kick around the old days of Quest and to compare
                                perspectives from our different vantage points – mine from outside
                                Quest as a drooling aspiring engineer, with his from inside as a
                                seasoned designer fighting management for the betterment of the
                                customers…

                                I was also aware (to some limited extent) of his health issues and
                                tend to make allowances for people as I hope they will of me. I
                                think I may even have had discussions with him about getting a few
                                parts for my Super ELF, but assumed that they would most likely not
                                end up becoming real for one or another reason.

                                I may even have crossed Paul at some point on the copying of parts
                                of a manual to help another member repair his system, but figured;
                                since we had both paid for an original manual and his had been lost,
                                he still had paid for the rights to one copy and my providing parts
                                of my copy for him was within reasonable use. Oh well, we live and
                                learn… I was wrong in Paul's mind and it wouldn't have hurt me to
                                have asked.

                                Still, I feel I'm better for having run into him, for having talked
                                to him and shared our ELF memories a bit. I hope he is well, wish
                                him well, respect him for what he has given me and so many others
                                through his designs, and would overlook any "curmudgeonly-ness"
                                because hey, we all have bad days…

                                Paul is a good guy, has a few hot buttons (I know I have my share)
                                and deserves more, perhaps, than he has gotten for his efforts.

                                All the best (73) to all,

                                Steve Gemeny
                                AA3NM
                              • Chris Wardell
                                Very well said Stewart. I had the pleasure of communcating with Paul a couple of years ago via email when I purchased an AIM 65 from him that he had from his
                                Message 15 of 17 , Mar 28, 2008
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                                  Very well said Stewart. I had the pleasure of communcating with
                                  Paul a couple of years ago via email when I purchased an AIM 65 from
                                  him that he had from his days at Quest. He was concerned that I was
                                  really interested in the AIM 65 and not just looking for something
                                  that I could turn around on Ebay. I convinced him that I really
                                  wanted the machine, I had always wanted one since back in the late
                                  70's when I also built an ELF II. He sold me the AIM 65 for far
                                  less than he could have sold it on Ebay and I really appreciate that.
                                  If the time ever comes that I cannot provide the AIM 65 a proper
                                  home, I will find someone that will appreciate it, I will not sell
                                  it on Ebay.

                                  Chris Wardell


                                  --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Stewart" <stew_m_3@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "tony" <waterwingz2@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > IANAL, but as far as copyright goes, it only covers the exact
                                  > > schematic as printed by the copyright holder. If you redraw or
                                  > > recreate the schematic with a CAD package and don't simply
                                  reproduce
                                  > > the original document then you are not infringing on anyone's
                                  > > copyright. In other words, the copyright holder does not own
                                  the
                                  > > circuit design, only the printed form of the drawing.
                                  > >
                                  > > Tony
                                  >
                                  > It might be a good thing to acquaint newcomers with exactly who
                                  Paul
                                  > Messinger is, why he holds the Quest copyrights, and more
                                  importantly
                                  > why his feelings should possibly count for something with us.
                                  Paul is
                                  > the engineer who was responsible for the bulk of the design work on
                                  > the Quest machines and salvaged at his own expense much of what was
                                  > materially left of the company after its demise, armloads of
                                  > manuscript docs, one-of-a-kind prototype machines, boxes of chips,
                                  > stacks of boards, etc. In addition, he is intimately familiar with
                                  > most other 1802 applications and the design intricacies of all of
                                  > Quest's competition. His career and expertise far exceeds simply
                                  the
                                  > Quest efforts. He was for instance engineer in overall charge of
                                  the
                                  > systems for the Hubbell. He may seem a bit of a curmudgeon it is
                                  > true, but in his defense he and his wife both have serious health
                                  > issues and he has some very bitter memories of the collapse of
                                  Quest,
                                  > a company he put his heart and soul into, and whose demise was
                                  none of
                                  > his fault. But he remains an absolute goldmine of anecdotes and
                                  > information of the pioneering days of the 1802 and is one of our
                                  last
                                  > real living icons of this era. He continues to love the 1802 and
                                  > believes in it to this day, and his passionate feelings about the
                                  > processor and his countless memories associated with his place at
                                  the
                                  > forefront of its use make him extremely and justifiably sensitive
                                  to
                                  > being approached in a light or cavalier manner about it,
                                  particularly
                                  > if he is in some pain or discomfort or worried about his wife. I
                                  have
                                  > myself always found Paul to be a wonderful man to deal with in
                                  person,
                                  > and I feel we are deeply priviledged to have his occasional visits
                                  on
                                  > our little List, one of the true leaders in the early use of the
                                  RCA
                                  > 1802 for both personal computing and for its applications in space
                                  and
                                  > the highest scientific endeavors. There are many instances on this
                                  > List when he patiently sat at the keyboard and did his best to
                                  answer
                                  > the most pointed and precise questions about the Quest boards,
                                  despite
                                  > perhaps being in considerable discomfort and surely having more
                                  > pressing and serious things to attend to. Just my tuppence from
                                  > knowing something of the man and from meeting him a number of
                                  times in
                                  > person. I regret that many of you here have not had the immense
                                  > pleasure of a face to face meeting with him and in getting to know
                                  him
                                  > a bit better. He is an exceptional individual, absolutely unique,
                                  and
                                  > a brilliant intellect. -Stewart Marshall
                                  >
                                • James Tadlock
                                  I don t have the rest of the magazine, but I have the 6 Elf articles that were duly torn out and saved. A little weather beaten and my personal notes in the
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Mar 29, 2008
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                                    I don't have the rest of the magazine, but I have the 6 Elf articles that were duly torn out and saved. A little weather beaten and my personal notes in the margins. My oh my how time flys.

                                    coolcash3030 <coolcash3030@...> wrote: It all depends on your starting point and what you're referring
                                    to...when the ELF was first on the cover of Pop Electronics I was the
                                    ripe old age of 14 (I am sorry I did not save those 2 issues!!!!) ...
                                    I am now the ripe young age of 45 and I have yet to build any ELF
                                    having tinkered with everything in between since then. You can say I
                                    am the 45-year-old ELF Virgin!!! LOL!

                                    Nevertheless I am glad to see classic technology revived!

                                    Chris

                                    --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "saturn5tony" <saturn5tony@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Look, if you built an ELF which is now 30+ YEARS!!! AGO then yes you
                                    > are an OLD TIMER!!! in terms of technology you are ancient. If you
                                    > just like the old stuff and are fairly young then NO you are not an
                                    > old timer. Boy are people so touchy about thier age......
                                    > Not me!
                                    >
                                    > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, didio4@ wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > Who are you calling an "Old Timer"?????
                                    > >
                                    > > Not me!
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > In a message dated 3/25/2008 9:37:37 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    > > saturn5tony@ writes:
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > No, I'd love to see the schematic!! After all seeing the 1802 in a
                                    > > different configuration might be interesting. Who is gonna copy
                                    > and
                                    > > sell the thing anyways. Its only interesting to us old timers that
                                    > love
                                    > > to see how we did stuff 30 years ago.
                                    > >
                                    > > --- In _cosmacelf@yahoogroucosmac_
                                    > (mailto:cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com) ,
                                    > > "Gary Giles" <buzzgiles@> wrote:
                                    > > >
                                    > > > Would anyone have a problem if I were to post a schematic of a
                                    > Quest
                                    > > > Cosmac ELF board?
                                    > > >
                                    > > >
                                    > > > 73 Gary, KF9CM
                                    > > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > **************Create a Home Theater Like the Pros. Watch the video
                                    > on AOL
                                    > > Home.
                                    > > (http://home.aol.com/diy/home-improvement-eric-stromer?video=15?
                                    > ncid=aolhom00030000000001)
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    > >
                                    >






                                    ---------------------------------
                                    Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • rileym65
                                    As far is my stuff is concerned, feel free to copy it all you want so long as credit to what i have done is not removed, nor is any of my work used for profit
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Mar 31, 2008
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                                      As far is my stuff is concerned, feel free to copy it all you want so
                                      long as credit to what i have done is not removed, nor is any of my
                                      work used for profit without my permission, For personal use, copy it
                                      all you want.
                                      Mike

                                      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Armstrong" <bob@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com <mailto:cosmacelf%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                                      > "Aurel Boisvert" <aurel@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Hi Gary,
                                      > >
                                      > > Is this schematic for the early Quest Cosmac Elf,
                                      > > the one similar to the Cosmac Elf published in Popular Electronics in
                                      > 1976.
                                      > >
                                      > > If it is would it be possible to email me a copy of it.
                                      > > Thanks
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > If you want a schematic for any COSMAC Elf version, then the Elf 2000
                                      > schematics are in the back of its manual,
                                      >
                                      > http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/Downloads/Elf2k.pdf
                                      >
                                      > Also the schematics for the several Elf versions that Mike Riley has
                                      made
                                      > are on his page,
                                      >
                                      > http://www.elf-emulation.com/hardware.html
                                      >
                                      > The Elf 2000 manual, et al, is copyrighted under the GNU FDL. I'm
                                      not sure
                                      > about Mike's stuff.
                                      >
                                      > Bob Armstrong
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
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