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Re: unmodified Tiny Basic ?

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  • Al Winfrey
    Lee, I think that I have that manual by RCA still packed away somewhere but I had forgotten about the interepreter hex listing. We moved to a different
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 18, 2006
      Lee,

      I think that I have that manual by RCA still packed away somewhere but I had forgotten
      about the interepreter hex listing. We moved to a different location about a year ago and
      some things are still in boxes. Some of the bulkiest computer stuff went out the door but I
      made it a point to keep the 1802 stuff.

      Thanks for the information Lee! :o)

      al
      ....



      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
      >
      > Al Winfrey wrote:
      > > I'm looking for an 1802 version of Tiny Basic. The only one that I was aware of written
      for
      > > the 1802 was distributed on paper tape and included a User Manual for five dollars. It
      was
      > > just under 2k in length and conformed to the comments and specifications in the user
      > > manual and Tiny Basic experimenter's documentation. Maybe some clients contracted
      for
      > > customized versions that I have not heard of for the 1802 but I'm not interested in
      them.
      > >
      > > I already have the Hex tape originals for KIM-1 and the 6800 but do not have one for
      the
      > > 1802 yet. Original means a copy with minimal amounts of undocumentated hacking.
      >
      > There's one published in the RCA "Instruction Manual for the RCA COSMAC
      > Evaluation Kit CDP18S020 and the EK/Assembler-Editor Design Kit
      > CDP18S024", #MPM-224. It includes the object listing (hex bytes and
      > memory addresses), and Tom Pittman's user manual. RCA sold this version
      > on paper tape.
      >
      > Tom Pittman sold a slightly different version himself, on paper tape,
      > which included the "Experimenter's Manual". This may be the one you are
      > thinking of.
      >
      > I have both, and am only aware of two differences between them:
      >
      > 1. The RND function in RCA's version has 2 arguments; RND(exp1,exp2).
      > Tom's version has 1 argument; RND(exp1).
      >
      > 2. The RCA version has 3 addresses already patched to point to the
      > UT4 monitor's console input, console output, and tape reader.
      > Tom's version required that you add these patches yourself.
      >
      > The TMSI Tiny BASIC I posted on the cosmacelf website is derived from
      > the RCA version.
      > --
      > Ring the bells that still can ring
      > Forget the perfect offering
      > There is a crack in everything
      > That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
      > --
      > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
      >
    • ca1naj610
      Lee: I have a copy of RCA Manual MPM-224 as do you apparently, Is anyone aware of it being available electronically? I ll scan mine but I don t want to do it
      Message 2 of 11 , Sep 1, 2016
        Lee:
        I have a copy of RCA Manual MPM-224 as do you apparently,  Is anyone aware of it being available electronically?  I'll scan mine but I don't want to do it if it already exists.  Did anyone scan yours, Lee?  The manual is 288 pages. I posted this in COSMACELF and a slightly different request/offer in the STG yahoo group.  My manual was printed in Sept. 1979. 
        By the way, I also have manuals MPM-206A (Fixed point Binary Arithmetic Subroutines) and MPM-207 (Floating point Arithmetic Subroutines).
        Denny
      • Lee Hart
        ... Yes, I have both the MPM-203A and MPM-224 books. I don t know if they are already online somewhere. Since I have printed copies, I haven t worried about
        Message 3 of 11 , Sep 1, 2016
          ca1naj610@... [cosmacelf] wrote:
          > Lee:
          > I have a copy of RCA Manual MPM-224 as do you apparently, Is anyone
          > aware of it being available electronically?

          Yes, I have both the MPM-203A and MPM-224 books. I don't know if they
          are already online somewhere. Since I have printed copies, I haven't
          worried about it.

          > Did anyone scan yours, Lee?

          Not to my knowledge. Though I've loaned it out a few times, so it's
          possible.

          --
          Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
          reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
          affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
          --
          Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
        • bill_rowe@rogers.com
          Hi Denny: Just to be clear, those manuals just describe the fixed and floating point libraries - right? The software is separate?
          Message 4 of 11 , Sep 3, 2016
            Hi Denny: Just to be clear, those manuals just describe the fixed and floating point libraries - right?  The software is separate?
          • ca1naj610
            Bill: You be the judge. I do not want to mislead anyone. For example, the 48 page MPM-206A includes assembler output object listings as well as binary
            Message 5 of 11 , Sep 3, 2016
               Bill:
              You be the judge.  I do not want to mislead anyone.  For example, the 48 page MPM-206A includes assembler output object listings as well as binary listings for various purposes.  As an introductory project for me, I will scan and make available the 48 page document known as RCA MPM-206A first and then see how that goes.
            • Lee Hart
              ... For reference: MPM-206A Fixed-Point Binary Arithmetic Subroutines for RCA COSMAC Microprocessors *does* include the source listings. The printing is nice
              Message 6 of 11 , Sep 3, 2016
                ca1naj610@... [cosmacelf] wrote:
                > Bill:
                > You be the judge. I do not want to mislead anyone. For example, the 48
                > page MPM-206A includes assembler output object listings as well as
                > binary listings for various purposes. As an introductory project for me,
                > I will scan and make available the 48 page document known as RCA
                > MPM-206A first and then see how that goes.

                For reference:

                MPM-206A Fixed-Point Binary Arithmetic Subroutines for RCA COSMAC
                Microprocessors *does* include the source listings. The printing is nice
                and clear, which shouldn't give an OCR program much trouble.

                MPM-207 Floating-Point Arithmetic Subroutines for RCA COSMAC
                Microprocessors does *not* include source or object code for these routines.

                --
                Obsolete (Ob-so-LETE). Adjective. 1. Something that is simple,
                reliable, straightforward, readily available, easy to use, and
                affordable. 2. Not what the salesman wants you to buy.
                --
                Lee Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, www.sunrise-ev.com
              • thinkpast
                Al Winfrey asked for an unmodified 1802 Tiny BASIC in source form. RCA provided in MPM-203, a hex dump of 2K Tiny BASIC; but not assembly source - that was
                Message 7 of 11 , Sep 12, 2016
                   Al Winfrey asked for an "unmodified" 1802 Tiny BASIC in source form.

                  RCA provided in MPM-203, a hex dump of 2K Tiny BASIC; but not assembly source - that was sold by license. However, TMSI's Tiny BASIC source is available - and its hex-dump almost completely matches RCA's hex dump. Chuck recently provided a PDF scan of MPM-203 here in cosmacelf/Yahoo's file area; it contains the TB hex dump.

                  Here's what I did. I took Lee Hart's/TMSI's TB  and changed it, to match the disassembled parts of RCA's TB hex dump (from MPM-203). It wasn't that many bytes.

                  Also: I took the PDF of the manual for Tiny BASIC (from MPM-203) and OCR'ed it, and edited the RTF result so that it is visually consistent and LARGELY corrected versus the PDF imaged pages. I also un-RTF'ed the result as a plain text file.

                  These are now available on my Tiny BASIC Web page which supports the former TMSI Tiny BASIC. Both versions are available - TMSI/Lee's with IDIOT monitor, "RCA's" without UT4 - which I have elsewhere on my Web site.

                  http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/mship_tbasic.html

                  In the course of discussing these results with Chuck Yakym and Lee Hart, they contributed a number of "patches" to improve the speed of Tiny BASIC. The patches are described on my Web page, as discrete pieces of code, not integrated into either TB version. One of the patches was originally distributed by Tom Pittman, and not generally available.

                  I did a lot of work (and so have others). But I did not check every single byte of hex code between  modified TMSI TB and RCA TB's hex dump. And I did not compare every character of the OCR'ed TB manual, to the PDF from MPM-203. Here's where you come in. If you find errors, let me know, I will fix them accordingly. If this work is not used, errors won't matter. If it is used, then telling me the fixes tells ME it's been used, and helps other users. Thank you.

                  One more thing. Surprisingly, Tom Pittman doesn't have an 1802 version of Tiny BASIC on his Web page. When I get some confirmation of these sources and text documents, I'll send Tom a link to the page. Of course, he's welcome to grab the regenerated RCA source too. But he has many links on his Tiny BASIC Web page to other sites with TB code, so it's his call as to how he references it. A link to Tom's Web page is of course on my Web page.

                  Herb Johnson

                   

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