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Re: [cosmacelf] Re: Does anyone have any info on an "MDA CPU"?

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  • Paul Messinger
    I have the RCA book/manual on the CDP18S603 as well as the broader guide on that series of boards. The computersystems guide is CMB-250A and 16 pages with
    Message 1 of 14 , Jun 6 7:40 AM
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      I have the RCA book/manual on the CDP18S603 as well as the broader guide on
      that series of boards.

      The computersystems guide is CMB-250A and 16 pages with general info on the
      Microboard series.

      The CDP18S603 manual (MB-603) is 12 pages with complete detailed info
      including schematics of the board and how to set it up etc.

      Any ROM was user added.

      I can scan the manual as a large PDF to retain the "fine print".

      Both are in like new condition with no marks folds etc.

      Both of the Above seem needed (helpful?)to fully use the board with other
      RCA boards in the series etc.

      Paul

      PS found all the Quest 1802 boards and now sorting thru the misc I/C's I
      have that may be needed as unique or hard to find used on the boards.

      Still need to contact off line those who have sent me an email with an
      interest.

      Progress is slow but getting there.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "erd_6502" <erd_6502@...>
      To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 9:43 PM
      Subject: [cosmacelf] Re: Does anyone have any info on an "MDA CPU"?


      > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew Wasson" <andrew@l...> wrote:
      >> JC is right.
      >>
      >> They were CDP18S603A boards. I wouldn't have remebered the model but
      >> it definitely tweaked my memory when I read it. ...And yes the
      >> shipping cost was extrodinarily high. The boards were cheap.
      >
      >> > > > http://www.decodesystems.com/help-wanted/1802-board.html
      >
      > Ah... well then, I guess what I have is something different. I've
      > spent some time on tracing the 44-pin edge connector and have
      > identified the data bus, what seems to be buffered A0-A7 (connected to
      > the RAM/ROM, but not directly connected to the 1802), power, ground, Q
      > and SC0/SC1... still a lot to go. For the record, what I have is
      > nothing like my BASYS board. It's likely that MDA Scientific just
      > made up their own standard.
      >
      > -ethan
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > ========================================================
      > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Dave Ruske
      ... And the copyright holders of those documents would be...?
      Message 2 of 14 , Jun 6 7:49 AM
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        On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Paul Messinger wrote:
        > I have the RCA book/manual on the CDP18S603 as well as the broader
        > guide on that series of boards. The computersystems guide is
        > CMB-250A and 16 pages with general info on the Microboard series...
        > I can scan the manual as a large PDF to retain the "fine print".

        And the copyright holders of those documents would be...?
      • Paul Messinger
        Quest had permission at the time to reproduce any relevant info from RCA. The SuperElf manual contains a lot from the 1802 microp manual.( I obtained the Quest
        Message 3 of 14 , Jun 6 1:46 PM
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          Quest had permission at the time to reproduce any relevant info from RCA.
          The SuperElf manual contains a lot from the 1802 microp manual.( I obtained
          the Quest 1802 product rights when Quest folded)

          I expected your comments BTW.

          As the manuals came with the boards originally; I would expect its OK for
          any owner of the board to have a copy.Thus my COMMENT/OFFER WAS ONLY
          intended FOR THOSE WHO NOW OWN THE BOARDS.

          General question however????

          Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can legally copy any
          data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when the data
          books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????

          Paul


          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Dave Ruske" <dave@...>
          To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 7:49 AM
          Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Re: Does anyone have any info on an "MDA CPU"?


          > On Jun 6, 2005, at 9:40 AM, Paul Messinger wrote:
          >> I have the RCA book/manual on the CDP18S603 as well as the broader
          >> guide on that series of boards. The computersystems guide is
          >> CMB-250A and 16 pages with general info on the Microboard series...
          >> I can scan the manual as a large PDF to retain the "fine print".
          >
          > And the copyright holders of those documents would be...?
          >
          >
          > ========================================================
          > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.com
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Dave Ruske
          ... I don t really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects again, but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously posting about how the
          Message 4 of 14 , Jun 6 2:21 PM
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            On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Paul Messinger wrote:
            > Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can legally
            > copy any
            > data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when the
            > data
            > books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????

            I don't really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects again,
            but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously
            posting about how "the copying common here and the associated web
            sites are technically illegal" <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
            cosmacelf/message/3675>.

            Your question points out one problem with copyright law as it
            currently stands, which is why some time ago I suggested group
            members submit their comments when the Copyright Office was
            soliciting them. Current developments may be found at <http://
            www.copyright.gov/orphan/index.html>.

            In the specific case of the 1800-series data sheets, popup text by
            the datasheets on cosmacelf.com gives this publication notice, per
            Intersil's instruction: "Permission granted by Doug Balog, Intersil
            Legal Dept., April 3, 2001. Cosmacelf.com is not affiliated with and
            makes no representations about their products." I thought Intersil
            was very cool about it, actually.

            Dave
          • Paul Messinger
            And your point is?? Paul ... From: Dave Ruske To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [cosmacelf]
            Message 5 of 14 , Jun 6 3:10 PM
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              And your point is??

              Paul
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Dave Ruske" <dave@...>
              To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:21 PM
              Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Somewhat Offtopic Copyright Discussion


              > On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Paul Messinger wrote:
              >> Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can legally
              >> copy any
              >> data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when the
              >> data
              >> books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????
              >
              > I don't really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects again,
              > but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously
              > posting about how "the copying common here and the associated web
              > sites are technically illegal" <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
              > cosmacelf/message/3675>.
              >
              > Your question points out one problem with copyright law as it
              > currently stands, which is why some time ago I suggested group
              > members submit their comments when the Copyright Office was
              > soliciting them. Current developments may be found at <http://
              > www.copyright.gov/orphan/index.html>.
              >
              > In the specific case of the 1800-series data sheets, popup text by
              > the datasheets on cosmacelf.com gives this publication notice, per
              > Intersil's instruction: "Permission granted by Doug Balog, Intersil
              > Legal Dept., April 3, 2001. Cosmacelf.com is not affiliated with and
              > makes no representations about their products." I thought Intersil
              > was very cool about it, actually.
              >
              > Dave
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ========================================================
              > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.com
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
            • Paul Messinger
              Spin?? I only have stated what I have been told by legal experts in the field. My original comments were regarding Quest as MY name etc was clearly on later
              Message 6 of 14 , Jun 6 4:40 PM
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                Spin?? I only have stated what I have been told by "legal experts" in the
                field. My original comments were regarding Quest as MY name etc was clearly
                on later documents etc and I have always been easy to find. The two cases
                RCA and Quest / PHM Design copyright issues are very different in a
                practical matter. I have no problem with copying just the behind my back
                copying without reasonable due diligence effort to find me and get
                permission that was irking.

                Perhaps I have been affected by a person on another list that copied manuals
                and passed them around and in one case sold them while they were currently
                available but at a higher cost that people wanted to pay. Ask Microsoft what
                they think about this approach and I agree.

                SPIN is to me defined as (I cannot reply on a public net what I think of
                that word in this context)

                Clearly there are different opinions on the rules.

                In any event I will NOT copy any of my huge collection of RCA documents on
                the various RCA development systems and microboards (this documentation
                would allow, in most cases, duplication of the product as S/W listings and
                schematics are included). As that is not clearly a part of Quest its not
                part of the closeout of my hardware and software.

                I have neither the time or interest in finding out who has the copyright as
                this is NOT the component division of RCA but a different division (as I
                recall) of board level systems etc.

                I was only trying to help but that appears not possible so "people keep
                reverse engineering" :-(.

                Again I feel that holders of the hardware are allowed copies of the original
                documentation but you appear to disagree and so be it.

                But that seems to be so common on this list as I do not recall even ONE
                question regarding the Superelf other than recently about the key caps (this
                after disclosing I was the designer of most of the product line of 1802's.
                There was a question to the list on a specific RCA part # and I replied that
                I had the data and never got any reply, so much for common courtesy.

                I in the past I have been asked if I had old boards and then offered to
                accept them if I shipped them at my cost and free also. I have been offered
                10% of what items would sell on EBay. Under those conditions I would rather
                send it to the dump and so stated a short time ago.

                Paul


                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Dave Ruske" <dave@...>
                To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:21 PM
                Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Somewhat Offtopic Copyright Discussion


                > On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Paul Messinger wrote:
                >> Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can legally
                >> copy any
                >> data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when the
                >> data
                >> books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????
                >
                > I don't really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects again,
                > but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously
                > posting about how "the copying common here and the associated web
                > sites are technically illegal" <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
                > cosmacelf/message/3675>.
                >
                > Your question points out one problem with copyright law as it
                > currently stands, which is why some time ago I suggested group
                > members submit their comments when the Copyright Office was
                > soliciting them. Current developments may be found at <http://
                > www.copyright.gov/orphan/index.html>.
                >
                > In the specific case of the 1800-series data sheets, popup text by
                > the datasheets on cosmacelf.com gives this publication notice, per
                > Intersil's instruction: "Permission granted by Doug Balog, Intersil
                > Legal Dept., April 3, 2001. Cosmacelf.com is not affiliated with and
                > makes no representations about their products." I thought Intersil
                > was very cool about it, actually.
                >
                > Dave
                >
              • duanebenson
                Stepping aside from the copyright issues, I do want to put in a thank you. I bought and built my Super Elf and Super Expansion back in 79 or 80. It was a
                Message 7 of 14 , Jun 6 9:05 PM
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                  Stepping aside from the copyright issues, I do want to put in
                  a "thank you." I bought and built my Super Elf and Super Expansion
                  back in '79 or '80. It was a great learning tool and a lot of fun.
                  The amount of education I got from the thing far, far exceeded the
                  cost.

                  The Super Elf still works - other than a little key bounce issue. I
                  don't know about the 4K expansion board because the EPROM has long
                  since lost its M and I misplaced the expansion docs somewhere. I
                  still have a few programs that were painstakingly hand entered and
                  saved on cassette tape, though I'm not sure I still have a cassette
                  player anywhere.

                  My ten-year-old kid is even willing to take a break from his 2GHz,
                  512MByte beast to see what it was like in the old days.


                  --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Messinger" <paulm@o...>
                  wrote:
                  > And your point is??
                  >
                  > Paul
                  > ----- Original Message -----
                  > From: "Dave Ruske" <dave@r...>
                  > To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:21 PM
                  > Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Somewhat Offtopic Copyright Discussion
                  >
                  >
                  > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Paul Messinger wrote:
                  > >> Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can
                  legally
                  > >> copy any
                  > >> data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when
                  the
                  > >> data
                  > >> books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????
                  > >
                  > > I don't really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects
                  again,
                  > > but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously
                  > > posting about how "the copying common here and the associated
                  web
                  > > sites are technically illegal" <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
                  > > cosmacelf/message/3675>.
                  > >
                  > > Your question points out one problem with copyright law as it
                  > > currently stands, which is why some time ago I suggested group
                  > > members submit their comments when the Copyright Office was
                  > > soliciting them. Current developments may be found at <http://
                  > > www.copyright.gov/orphan/index.html>.
                  > >
                  > > In the specific case of the 1800-series data sheets, popup text
                  by
                  > > the datasheets on cosmacelf.com gives this publication notice,
                  per
                  > > Intersil's instruction: "Permission granted by Doug Balog,
                  Intersil
                  > > Legal Dept., April 3, 2001. Cosmacelf.com is not affiliated with
                  and
                  > > makes no representations about their products." I thought
                  Intersil
                  > > was very cool about it, actually.
                  > >
                  > > Dave
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ========================================================
                  > > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.com
                  > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                • Andrew Wasson
                  Duane, I agree wholehartedly! I had an Elf II back in 1980 because a classmate lost interest and practically gave it too me but I was drooling over the Super
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jun 6 9:22 PM
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                    Duane,
                    I agree wholehartedly!

                    I had an Elf II back in 1980 because a classmate lost interest and
                    practically gave it too me but I was drooling over the Super Elf. No
                    I've got one and it is a cool machine. Well actually it runs a bit hot
                    but it is great. I think even today 25 years later it makes a great
                    learning tool.

                    And thanks Paul for the offer of materials for those 1802 boards.
                    That's a generous offer and if I had one of those boards it would be
                    really handy to have.

                    Cheers,
                    Andrew



                    --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "duanebenson" <duanebenson@h...> wrote:
                    > Stepping aside from the copyright issues, I do want to put in
                    > a "thank you." I bought and built my Super Elf and Super Expansion
                    > back in '79 or '80. It was a great learning tool and a lot of fun.
                    > The amount of education I got from the thing far, far exceeded the
                    > cost.
                    >
                    > The Super Elf still works - other than a little key bounce issue. I
                    > don't know about the 4K expansion board because the EPROM has long
                    > since lost its M and I misplaced the expansion docs somewhere. I
                    > still have a few programs that were painstakingly hand entered and
                    > saved on cassette tape, though I'm not sure I still have a cassette
                    > player anywhere.
                    >
                    > My ten-year-old kid is even willing to take a break from his 2GHz,
                    > 512MByte beast to see what it was like in the old days.
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Messinger" <paulm@o...>
                    > wrote:
                    > > And your point is??
                    > >
                    > > Paul
                    > > ----- Original Message -----
                    > > From: "Dave Ruske" <dave@r...>
                    > > To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
                    > > Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 2:21 PM
                    > > Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Somewhat Offtopic Copyright Discussion
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > > On Jun 6, 2005, at 3:46 PM, Paul Messinger wrote:
                    > > >> Your question can be interperated to mean that no one can
                    > legally
                    > > >> copy any
                    > > >> data sheet from RCA etc,, So how does one use the product when
                    > the
                    > > >> data
                    > > >> books are no longer in print and not on the MFGR's web site????
                    > > >
                    > > > I don't really want to veer too far off 1802 related subjects
                    > again,
                    > > > but I found your spin on copyright interesting after previously
                    > > > posting about how "the copying common here and the associated
                    > web
                    > > > sites are technically illegal" <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
                    > > > cosmacelf/message/3675>.
                    > > >
                    > > > Your question points out one problem with copyright law as it
                    > > > currently stands, which is why some time ago I suggested group
                    > > > members submit their comments when the Copyright Office was
                    > > > soliciting them. Current developments may be found at <http://
                    > > > www.copyright.gov/orphan/index.html>.
                    > > >
                    > > > In the specific case of the 1800-series data sheets, popup text
                    > by
                    > > > the datasheets on cosmacelf.com gives this publication notice,
                    > per
                    > > > Intersil's instruction: "Permission granted by Doug Balog,
                    > Intersil
                    > > > Legal Dept., April 3, 2001. Cosmacelf.com is not affiliated with
                    > and
                    > > > makes no representations about their products." I thought
                    > Intersil
                    > > > was very cool about it, actually.
                    > > >
                    > > > Dave
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > ========================================================
                    > > > Visit the COSMAC ELF website at http://www.cosmacelf.com
                    > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                  • Lee Hart
                    ... I just want to chime in and say that I m another satisfied Quest Elf customer. After the toggle switch front panel of my previous homemade Elf, its hex
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jun 7 9:17 AM
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                      Andrew Wasson wrote:
                      > Duane, I agree wholehartedly!
                      > I had an Elf II back in 1980 because a classmate lost interest and
                      > practically gave it too me but I was drooling over the Super Elf.
                      > Now I've got one and it is a cool machine. Well actually it runs a
                      > bit hot but it is great. I think even today 25 years later it makes
                      > a great learning tool.
                      >
                      > And thanks Paul for the offer of materials for those 1802 boards.
                      > That's a generous offer and if I had one of those boards it would be
                      > really handy to have.

                      I just want to chime in and say that I'm another satisfied Quest Elf
                      customer. After the toggle switch front panel of my previous homemade
                      Elf, its hex keypad and 7-segment displays were a big step forward. Yes,
                      it got hot; but I added series resistors to each of the lines to the
                      LEDs to cut the current in half. I used a BASYS/1 board for memory
                      expansion, RS-232, and a parallel port. Thanks, Paul!
                      --
                      Ilegitimi non carborundum (don't let the bastards get you down).
                      There are always a few kibitzers in the crowd; just ignore them.
                      --
                      Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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