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Re: U.S. sources for 1802 chips, etc...?

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  • thinkinginbinary
    Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean hard-to-find expensive or antique expensive? And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn t
    Message 1 of 15 , Jul 14 2:35 PM
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      Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean "hard-to-find"
      expensive or "antique" expensive?

      And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn't have to be the
      real RCA 1802, as long as it uses the same instruction set 'n stuff.

      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > 1802 cpus are kinda hard to find these days and when you can find them
      > they tend to be expensive. the last time i found some, i had to buy a
      > minimum of 30! if you are interested, i currently sell a kit called
      > the Micro/Elf. You can find information about it at my website:
      >
      > http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/
      >
      > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
      > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
      > > After tinkering with emulators for a while, I'd like to actually build
      > > an ELF. (Not a similar-as-possible clone--I'd like to upgrade parts
      > > when it's easy rather than looking around for older stuff...) Where
      > > can I buy 1802 CPU's and the other parts? If DigiKey have such a
      > > thing, I couldn't find it. Any pointers to places to get this stuff
      > > would be great.
    • rileym65
      my 1802s are RCA and Harris. intersil still makes a space-worthy one, but last time i got an estimate on one it was over $100. I bought my 1802s from one of
      Message 2 of 15 , Jul 14 2:41 PM
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        my 1802s are RCA and Harris. intersil still makes a space-worthy
        one, but last time i got an estimate on one it was over $100. I
        bought my 1802s from one of the places on the internet (cannot
        remember which one offhand) that has connections all over the world
        and are great for finding hard to find parts, trouble is, there is
        usually a minimum order. the last time i bought 1802s i had to buy a
        minimum of 30 and they were more than $30 each!!! :(
        As a work-a-like there is the 1805 and 1806, but they are also very
        difficult to find. they are instruction set compatabile (excpt IDL
        works a little different, an i believe they do not have the LOAD mode)
        and mostly pin compatable...they were not as common as 1802s so they
        actually may be harder to find.


        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
        <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
        > Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean "hard-to-find"
        > expensive or "antique" expensive?
        >
        > And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn't have to be the
        > real RCA 1802, as long as it uses the same instruction set 'n stuff.
        >
        > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
        > > 1802 cpus are kinda hard to find these days and when you can find them
        > > they tend to be expensive. the last time i found some, i had to buy a
        > > minimum of 30! if you are interested, i currently sell a kit called
        > > the Micro/Elf. You can find information about it at my website:
        > >
        > > http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/
        > >
        > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
        > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
        > > > After tinkering with emulators for a while, I'd like to actually
        build
        > > > an ELF. (Not a similar-as-possible clone--I'd like to upgrade parts
        > > > when it's easy rather than looking around for older stuff...) Where
        > > > can I buy 1802 CPU's and the other parts? If DigiKey have such a
        > > > thing, I couldn't find it. Any pointers to places to get this stuff
        > > > would be great.
      • thinkinginbinary
        Intersil charges $71.28... but they purport to offer samples... is it worth trying to get a sample if it means they get my address and stuff? Or do you
        Message 3 of 15 , Jul 14 3:09 PM
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          Intersil charges $71.28... but they purport to offer samples... is it
          worth trying to get a "sample" if it means they get my address and
          stuff? Or do you think they'll get annoyed since it's not a "sample"
          because I just need one and I'm not buying a bunch from them?

          --Tom

          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > my 1802s are RCA and Harris. intersil still makes a space-worthy
          > one, but last time i got an estimate on one it was over $100. I
          > bought my 1802s from one of the places on the internet (cannot
          > remember which one offhand) that has connections all over the world
          > and are great for finding hard to find parts, trouble is, there is
          > usually a minimum order. the last time i bought 1802s i had to buy a
          > minimum of 30 and they were more than $30 each!!! :(
          > As a work-a-like there is the 1805 and 1806, but they are also very
          > difficult to find. they are instruction set compatabile (excpt IDL
          > works a little different, an i believe they do not have the LOAD mode)
          > and mostly pin compatable...they were not as common as 1802s so they
          > actually may be harder to find.
          >
          >
          > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
          > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
          > > Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean "hard-to-find"
          > > expensive or "antique" expensive?
          > >
          > > And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn't have to be the
          > > real RCA 1802, as long as it uses the same instruction set 'n stuff.
          > >
          > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
          > > > 1802 cpus are kinda hard to find these days and when you can
          find them
          > > > they tend to be expensive. the last time i found some, i had to
          buy a
          > > > minimum of 30! if you are interested, i currently sell a kit called
          > > > the Micro/Elf. You can find information about it at my website:
          > > >
          > > > http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/
          > > >
          > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
          > > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
          > > > > After tinkering with emulators for a while, I'd like to actually
          > build
          > > > > an ELF. (Not a similar-as-possible clone--I'd like to upgrade
          parts
          > > > > when it's easy rather than looking around for older stuff...)
          Where
          > > > > can I buy 1802 CPU's and the other parts? If DigiKey have such a
          > > > > thing, I couldn't find it. Any pointers to places to get this
          stuff
          > > > > would be great.
        • J.C. Wren
          Frankly, who cares if they get annoyed or not? All they can do is say yes , and send one (maybe more) samples, or say no , and send you nothing. It s not
          Message 4 of 15 , Jul 14 4:01 PM
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            Frankly, who cares if they get annoyed or not? All they can do is
            say 'yes', and send one (maybe more) samples, or say 'no', and send you
            nothing. It's not your job to appease them, and who knows, maybe one
            day you'll actually have a reason to order 1000 from them.

            I usually try to avoid wasting applications engineers time. If I
            order samples for personal parts, unless it's a FAE I know pretty well
            already (like the guy at Lattic, or Microchip), I'm not going to bother
            him with any questions. But when I spec a part for work, I fully expect
            complete and total support. If the part isn't working as specified,
            either because of a design defect, poor documentation, or whatever, it's
            their job to help make it work. Especially when you place an order for
            10,000 or 25,000 parts.

            There are several people on another mailing list I participate in
            that absolutely abuse the sample system. Microchip, Motorola and
            Dallas/Maxim get more bogus parts requests from these people than you
            can imagine. However, considering the actual cost of the part, the
            volume they ship parts in, the number of valid sample requests, and the
            cost of determining if they're "real" or not, it's cheaper just to send
            the samples, and take the loss.

            By that token, if you are going to order samples, and they have a
            limit of say, 5 part numbers and 3 pieces each (re Microchip), make the
            order count. Max it out. Where it's costing them the most money is
            probably in the shipping and handling. Figure out 5 different parts you
            want, and get three of each.

            The only time I've felt much guilt lately is I was designing a
            LPC2106 evaluation board. I had every intent of turning PCBs and making
            at least several for myself, and anyone who wanted to cover the cost. I
            called the Philips rep, told him I wanted 3 parts for this purpose, he
            Fedex out 10 the next day. I felt kinda bad about not getting around to
            finishing the product.

            --jc

            thinkinginbinary wrote:

            > Intersil charges $71.28... but they purport to offer samples... is it
            > worth trying to get a "sample" if it means they get my address and
            > stuff? Or do you think they'll get annoyed since it's not a "sample"
            > because I just need one and I'm not buying a bunch from them?
            >
            > --Tom
            >
            > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > my 1802s are RCA and Harris. intersil still makes a space-worthy
            > > one, but last time i got an estimate on one it was over $100. I
            > > bought my 1802s from one of the places on the internet (cannot
            > > remember which one offhand) that has connections all over the world
            > > and are great for finding hard to find parts, trouble is, there is
            > > usually a minimum order. the last time i bought 1802s i had to buy a
            > > minimum of 30 and they were more than $30 each!!! :(
            > > As a work-a-like there is the 1805 and 1806, but they are also very
            > > difficult to find. they are instruction set compatabile (excpt IDL
            > > works a little different, an i believe they do not have the LOAD mode)
            > > and mostly pin compatable...they were not as common as 1802s so they
            > > actually may be harder to find.
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
            > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
            > > > Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean "hard-to-find"
            > > > expensive or "antique" expensive?
            > > >
            > > > And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn't have to be the
            > > > real RCA 1802, as long as it uses the same instruction set 'n stuff.
            > > >
            > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            > > > > 1802 cpus are kinda hard to find these days and when you can
            > find them
            > > > > they tend to be expensive. the last time i found some, i had to
            > buy a
            > > > > minimum of 30! if you are interested, i currently sell a kit called
            > > > > the Micro/Elf. You can find information about it at my website:
            > > > >
            > > > > http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/
            > <http://www.lv-riley.com/%7Eriley/elf/>
            > > > >
            > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
            > > > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
            > > > > > After tinkering with emulators for a while, I'd like to actually
            > > build
            > > > > > an ELF. (Not a similar-as-possible clone--I'd like to upgrade
            > parts
            > > > > > when it's easy rather than looking around for older stuff...)
            > Where
            > > > > > can I buy 1802 CPU's and the other parts? If DigiKey have such a
            > > > > > thing, I couldn't find it. Any pointers to places to get this
            > stuff
            > > > > > would be great.
            >
          • thinkinginbinary
            So what do you put for Company , Title , Application and such when you re a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-) ... expect ...
            Message 5 of 15 , Jul 15 6:13 AM
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              So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such when
              you're a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-)

              --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "J.C. Wren" <jcwren@j...> wrote:
              > Frankly, who cares if they get annoyed or not? All they can do is
              > say 'yes', and send one (maybe more) samples, or say 'no', and send you
              > nothing. It's not your job to appease them, and who knows, maybe one
              > day you'll actually have a reason to order 1000 from them.
              >
              > I usually try to avoid wasting applications engineers time. If I
              > order samples for personal parts, unless it's a FAE I know pretty well
              > already (like the guy at Lattic, or Microchip), I'm not going to bother
              > him with any questions. But when I spec a part for work, I fully
              expect
              > complete and total support. If the part isn't working as specified,
              > either because of a design defect, poor documentation, or whatever,
              it's
              > their job to help make it work. Especially when you place an order for
              > 10,000 or 25,000 parts.
              >
              > There are several people on another mailing list I participate in
              > that absolutely abuse the sample system. Microchip, Motorola and
              > Dallas/Maxim get more bogus parts requests from these people than you
              > can imagine. However, considering the actual cost of the part, the
              > volume they ship parts in, the number of valid sample requests, and the
              > cost of determining if they're "real" or not, it's cheaper just to send
              > the samples, and take the loss.
              >
              > By that token, if you are going to order samples, and they have a
              > limit of say, 5 part numbers and 3 pieces each (re Microchip), make the
              > order count. Max it out. Where it's costing them the most money is
              > probably in the shipping and handling. Figure out 5 different parts
              you
              > want, and get three of each.
              >
              > The only time I've felt much guilt lately is I was designing a
              > LPC2106 evaluation board. I had every intent of turning PCBs and
              making
              > at least several for myself, and anyone who wanted to cover the
              cost. I
              > called the Philips rep, told him I wanted 3 parts for this purpose, he
              > Fedex out 10 the next day. I felt kinda bad about not getting
              around to
              > finishing the product.
              >
              > --jc
              >
              > thinkinginbinary wrote:
              >
              > > Intersil charges $71.28... but they purport to offer samples... is it
              > > worth trying to get a "sample" if it means they get my address and
              > > stuff? Or do you think they'll get annoyed since it's not a "sample"
              > > because I just need one and I'm not buying a bunch from them?
              > >
              > > --Tom
              > >
              > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > my 1802s are RCA and Harris. intersil still makes a space-worthy
              > > > one, but last time i got an estimate on one it was over $100. I
              > > > bought my 1802s from one of the places on the internet (cannot
              > > > remember which one offhand) that has connections all over the world
              > > > and are great for finding hard to find parts, trouble is, there is
              > > > usually a minimum order. the last time i bought 1802s i had to buy a
              > > > minimum of 30 and they were more than $30 each!!! :(
              > > > As a work-a-like there is the 1805 and 1806, but they are also
              very
              > > > difficult to find. they are instruction set compatabile (excpt IDL
              > > > works a little different, an i believe they do not have the LOAD
              mode)
              > > > and mostly pin compatable...they were not as common as 1802s so they
              > > > actually may be harder to find.
              > > >
              > > >
              > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
              > > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
              > > > > Where did you get yours? And by expensive do you mean
              "hard-to-find"
              > > > > expensive or "antique" expensive?
              > > > >
              > > > > And does anyone make a clone of the 1802? It doesn't have to
              be the
              > > > > real RCA 1802, as long as it uses the same instruction set 'n
              stuff.
              > > > >
              > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > > > > > 1802 cpus are kinda hard to find these days and when you can
              > > find them
              > > > > > they tend to be expensive. the last time i found some, i had to
              > > buy a
              > > > > > minimum of 30! if you are interested, i currently sell a
              kit called
              > > > > > the Micro/Elf. You can find information about it at my website:
              > > > > >
              > > > > > http://www.lv-riley.com/~riley/elf/
              > > <http://www.lv-riley.com/%7Eriley/elf/>
              > > > > >
              > > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
              > > > > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
              > > > > > > After tinkering with emulators for a while, I'd like to
              actually
              > > > build
              > > > > > > an ELF. (Not a similar-as-possible clone--I'd like to upgrade
              > > parts
              > > > > > > when it's easy rather than looking around for older stuff...)
              > > Where
              > > > > > > can I buy 1802 CPU's and the other parts? If DigiKey have
              such a
              > > > > > > thing, I couldn't find it. Any pointers to places to get this
              > > stuff
              > > > > > > would be great.
              > >
            • Mark Graybill
              ... Suggestions-- Company: Enterprises, or whatever you please (I used 23rd Century Systems when I was in high school, and ended up starting
              Message 6 of 15 , Jul 15 8:27 AM
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                On Jul 15, 2004, at 6:13 AM, thinkinginbinary wrote:

                > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such when
                > you're a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-)
                >

                Suggestions--

                Company:

                <Your Initials> Enterprises, or whatever you please (I used "23rd
                Century Systems" when I was in high school, and ended up starting a
                real company of that name about a year after I started using it to get
                samples, typically called 23C Systems to sound a bit less sophomoric,
                but the world abounded with high-profile sophomoric company names in
                those days.)

                Title: Engineering Technician or Research Technician would do.

                Application: Emdedded controller for industrial process market or some
                such.

                -Mark G.
              • Lee Hart
                ... There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers and technicians to create companies just to get parts and data sheets. One (true) story I
                Message 7 of 15 , Jul 15 5:33 PM
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                  thinkinginbinary wrote:
                  > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such when
                  > you're a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-)

                  There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers and
                  technicians to create companies just to get parts and data sheets. One
                  (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A Space Oddessy"
                  came out, it featured a computer called the HAL 9000 from a company in
                  Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a company, HAL Devices,
                  reasoning that they would need to start work on it right away! The
                  company still exists.

                  I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S Associates
                  (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron Bydlenium (meaningless),
                  Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many more.

                  If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So, set
                  everything up so you can look and act like a business. You literally set
                  up your own sole proprietership company, complete with letterhead,
                  business cards, mailing address, email address, website, phone number,
                  bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own personal address, bank
                  account, etc. but they won't check and don't care anyway. In most
                  places, all it takes is a trip to the county clerk's office and $10 or
                  so to register a business name.
                  --
                  "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
                  citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
                  has!" -- Margaret Mead
                  --
                  Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
                • Kathy Quinlan
                  ... I had my business registered when I was 12 my parents held the name untill I was 15. It is scary the things I built and sold (alot of it was kit assembly
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jul 15 7:11 PM
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                    Lee Hart wrote:

                    > thinkinginbinary wrote:
                    >
                    >>So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such when
                    >>you're a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-)
                    >
                    >
                    > There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers and
                    > technicians to create companies just to get parts and data sheets. One
                    > (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A Space Oddessy"
                    > came out, it featured a computer called the HAL 9000 from a company in
                    > Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a company, HAL Devices,
                    > reasoning that they would need to start work on it right away! The
                    > company still exists.
                    >
                    > I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S Associates
                    > (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron Bydlenium (meaningless),
                    > Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many more.
                    >
                    > If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So, set
                    > everything up so you can look and act like a business. You literally set
                    > up your own sole proprietership company, complete with letterhead,
                    > business cards, mailing address, email address, website, phone number,
                    > bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own personal address, bank
                    > account, etc. but they won't check and don't care anyway. In most
                    > places, all it takes is a trip to the county clerk's office and $10 or
                    > so to register a business name.

                    I had my business registered when I was 12 my parents held the name
                    untill I was 15. It is scary the things I built and sold (alot of it was
                    kit assembly work for other students) but I also built and sold single
                    channel light dimmers for stage use (that were approved by an
                    electrician and inspected / tested before sale)

                    Was a good little hobby, none of the companies supplying me knew a zitty
                    faced 12 year old girl was doing the design and construction work, the
                    parts suppliers just thought my dad etc was too lazy to get out the car
                    to pick the orders up...

                    Hmmm my business has now been running for 17 years.... scary thought ;)

                    Regards,

                    Kat.

                    --
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                    K.A.Q. Electronics Website: www.kaqelectronics.dyndns.org
                    IM: Yahoo: PinkyDwaggy MSN: katinka@...
                    For Everything Electronics Phone: 0419 923 731
                    ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  • Randy
                    Not an answer but it s great to see young people still doing this for a hobby. I was 15 when I bought and assembled my first computer, a Quest Super Elf kit,
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jul 16 5:40 AM
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                      Not an answer but it's great to see young people still doing this for
                      a hobby. I was 15 when I bought and assembled my first computer, a
                      Quest Super Elf kit, having started subscribing to Popular Electronics
                      2 years earlier when my school sold magazines as a fundraiser. And I
                      was probably 10 or 11 when I picked up an issue of I believe it was
                      Radio-Electronics that had an article on a simple computer using the
                      1801 2-chip design, which is probably what led me to the Super Elf
                      eventually. Long before graduating high school I knew where I wanted
                      to go to college, and that I wanted to study Electrical Engineering.
                      And so I did.
                      Keep it up! And like the others said, you don't have to tell THEM
                      you're a high school student!

                      --Randy

                      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
                      <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
                      > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such when
                      > you're a high school student building a replica of an old computer? ;-)
                      >
                    • thinkinginbinary
                      ... Hehehe... ... I m not even going to bother setting up a business or a business. A fake name (registered or not) should be enough to get stuff from them.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jul 16 8:10 AM
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                        Lee Hart wrote:
                        > thinkinginbinary wrote:
                        > > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such
                        > > when you're a high school student building a replica of an old
                        > > computer? ;-)
                        >
                        > There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers
                        > and technicians to create companies just to get parts and data
                        > sheets. One (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A
                        > Space Oddessy" came out, it featured a computer called the HAL 9000
                        > from a company in Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a
                        > company, HAL Devices, reasoning that they would need to start work
                        > on it right away! The company still exists.
                        >
                        > I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S
                        > Associates (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron Bydlenium
                        > (meaningless), Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many more.

                        Hehehe...

                        > If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So,
                        > set everything up so you can look and act like a business. You
                        > literally set up your own sole proprietership company, complete
                        > with letterhead, business cards, mailing address, email address,
                        > website, phone number, bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own
                        > personal address, bank account, etc. but they won't check and don't
                        > care anyway. In most places, all it takes is a trip to the county
                        > clerk's office and $10 or so to register a business name.

                        I'm not even going to bother setting up a "business" or a business. A
                        fake name (registered or not) should be enough to get stuff from them.
                        ;-) I used "TJT Enterprises" for the company, "Embedded controller"
                        (what else *are* 1802's used for ;-) for the Application. I put
                        "(internal use)" for "End Customer", reasoning that putting my own
                        name would be a bit of a giveaway.

                        But this is gonna be fun... ;-)

                        Does anyone have a list of modern equivalents of the rest of the
                        chips, since I'm not really familiar with everything they use. (I've
                        been a software guy for most of my life but only now am I really
                        getting into hardware/electronics.)

                        Another question: is it possible to use a parallel port to control the
                        data bus and the input switch, to make a computer programmer for the ELF?

                        See ya,

                        Tom
                      • rileym65
                        A common modern day part for the hex displays are TIL-311. all the 4000 series parts in the original project are still readily available...there are quite a
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jul 16 9:16 AM
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                          A common modern day part for the hex displays are TIL-311. all the
                          4000 series parts in the original project are still readily
                          available...there are quite a few modern day ram chips that you can
                          use to replace the originals as well. i use 32k cache ram chips in my
                          designs, they are easy to wire up, easy to come by, and give your elf
                          32k...
                          I had made at one time a parallel port interface to one of my older
                          elfs, i will see if i can find the schematic for it...but in essence
                          it had a 74ls244 to gate the parallel port pins to the data bus of the
                          elf, the parallel /strobe line connected to the DMA_IN, and then i
                          used the decoding logic for the switch input to gate the 74ls244. i
                          removed the gating chip used by the switches so that they would not
                          conflict with the parallel port input. another way you can handle
                          that is to put a sfdt toggle on the gates for the switches on one side
                          and the 74ls244 strobe on the other, such that if the toggle is up,
                          the switches can be read, and if down, the parallel port interface
                          would be read.

                          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
                          <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
                          > Lee Hart wrote:
                          > > thinkinginbinary wrote:
                          > > > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such
                          > > > when you're a high school student building a replica of an old
                          > > > computer? ;-)
                          > >
                          > > There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers
                          > > and technicians to create companies just to get parts and data
                          > > sheets. One (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A
                          > > Space Oddessy" came out, it featured a computer called the HAL 9000
                          > > from a company in Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a
                          > > company, HAL Devices, reasoning that they would need to start work
                          > > on it right away! The company still exists.
                          > >
                          > > I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S
                          > > Associates (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron Bydlenium
                          > > (meaningless), Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many more.
                          >
                          > Hehehe...
                          >
                          > > If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So,
                          > > set everything up so you can look and act like a business. You
                          > > literally set up your own sole proprietership company, complete
                          > > with letterhead, business cards, mailing address, email address,
                          > > website, phone number, bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own
                          > > personal address, bank account, etc. but they won't check and don't
                          > > care anyway. In most places, all it takes is a trip to the county
                          > > clerk's office and $10 or so to register a business name.
                          >
                          > I'm not even going to bother setting up a "business" or a business. A
                          > fake name (registered or not) should be enough to get stuff from them.
                          > ;-) I used "TJT Enterprises" for the company, "Embedded controller"
                          > (what else *are* 1802's used for ;-) for the Application. I put
                          > "(internal use)" for "End Customer", reasoning that putting my own
                          > name would be a bit of a giveaway.
                          >
                          > But this is gonna be fun... ;-)
                          >
                          > Does anyone have a list of modern equivalents of the rest of the
                          > chips, since I'm not really familiar with everything they use. (I've
                          > been a software guy for most of my life but only now am I really
                          > getting into hardware/electronics.)
                          >
                          > Another question: is it possible to use a parallel port to control the
                          > data bus and the input switch, to make a computer programmer for the
                          ELF?
                          >
                          > See ya,
                          >
                          > Tom
                        • rileym65
                          i forgot to mention in my reply, that if you want the 32k, you will need to add a 74ls373 (8-bit latch) or equivalent to latch the high bits of the address
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jul 16 9:19 AM
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                            i forgot to mention in my reply, that if you want the 32k, you will
                            need to add a 74ls373 (8-bit latch) or equivalent to latch the high
                            bits of the address bus.

                            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                            > A common modern day part for the hex displays are TIL-311. all the
                            > 4000 series parts in the original project are still readily
                            > available...there are quite a few modern day ram chips that you can
                            > use to replace the originals as well. i use 32k cache ram chips in my
                            > designs, they are easy to wire up, easy to come by, and give your elf
                            > 32k...
                            > I had made at one time a parallel port interface to one of my older
                            > elfs, i will see if i can find the schematic for it...but in essence
                            > it had a 74ls244 to gate the parallel port pins to the data bus of the
                            > elf, the parallel /strobe line connected to the DMA_IN, and then i
                            > used the decoding logic for the switch input to gate the 74ls244. i
                            > removed the gating chip used by the switches so that they would not
                            > conflict with the parallel port input. another way you can handle
                            > that is to put a sfdt toggle on the gates for the switches on one side
                            > and the 74ls244 strobe on the other, such that if the toggle is up,
                            > the switches can be read, and if down, the parallel port interface
                            > would be read.
                            >
                            > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
                            > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
                            > > Lee Hart wrote:
                            > > > thinkinginbinary wrote:
                            > > > > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and such
                            > > > > when you're a high school student building a replica of an old
                            > > > > computer? ;-)
                            > > >
                            > > > There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers
                            > > > and technicians to create companies just to get parts and data
                            > > > sheets. One (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A
                            > > > Space Oddessy" came out, it featured a computer called the HAL 9000
                            > > > from a company in Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a
                            > > > company, HAL Devices, reasoning that they would need to start work
                            > > > on it right away! The company still exists.
                            > > >
                            > > > I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S
                            > > > Associates (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron Bydlenium
                            > > > (meaningless), Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many more.
                            > >
                            > > Hehehe...
                            > >
                            > > > If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So,
                            > > > set everything up so you can look and act like a business. You
                            > > > literally set up your own sole proprietership company, complete
                            > > > with letterhead, business cards, mailing address, email address,
                            > > > website, phone number, bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own
                            > > > personal address, bank account, etc. but they won't check and don't
                            > > > care anyway. In most places, all it takes is a trip to the county
                            > > > clerk's office and $10 or so to register a business name.
                            > >
                            > > I'm not even going to bother setting up a "business" or a business. A
                            > > fake name (registered or not) should be enough to get stuff from them.
                            > > ;-) I used "TJT Enterprises" for the company, "Embedded controller"
                            > > (what else *are* 1802's used for ;-) for the Application. I put
                            > > "(internal use)" for "End Customer", reasoning that putting my own
                            > > name would be a bit of a giveaway.
                            > >
                            > > But this is gonna be fun... ;-)
                            > >
                            > > Does anyone have a list of modern equivalents of the rest of the
                            > > chips, since I'm not really familiar with everything they use. (I've
                            > > been a software guy for most of my life but only now am I really
                            > > getting into hardware/electronics.)
                            > >
                            > > Another question: is it possible to use a parallel port to control the
                            > > data bus and the input switch, to make a computer programmer for the
                            > ELF?
                            > >
                            > > See ya,
                            > >
                            > > Tom
                          • rileym65
                            For those interested, i have uploaded to the files section a schematic of my PC Parallel port to Elf interface. Here is a brief description of it: Left side
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jul 16 10:04 AM
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                              For those interested, i have uploaded to the files section a schematic
                              of my PC Parallel port to Elf interface. Here is a brief description
                              of it:

                              Left side are the pin numbers on the PC parallel port, essentially
                              these are the 8 data lines and the /strobe signal
                              The right side contains the connections needed on the Elf. The DB? and
                              SC1 lines can be directly connected, DMA_IN needs to be combined with
                              the IN switch (using diodes are gates), if you do not care to keep IN
                              button functionality, you can disconnect it from DMA_IN. The DATA_IN
                              signal is the enable that would enable the toggle switches to be read.
                              As i stated in my prior post, you can either use an spdt toggle to
                              select either the data switches or the parallel port as input, or
                              remove the chips that allow the gating of the data switches.

                              In my original circuit, the flip-flop and inverter were spare gates on
                              my Elf board and therefore my board had only the 74ls244. Most Elf
                              systems should have the spare flip-flop and/or inverter, which would
                              cut down on the chip count for building this interface.

                              If anybody would like further information on this circuit or how to
                              use it, just let me know. I will be glad to help.

                              --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > i forgot to mention in my reply, that if you want the 32k, you will
                              > need to add a 74ls373 (8-bit latch) or equivalent to latch the high
                              > bits of the address bus.
                              >
                              > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                              > > A common modern day part for the hex displays are TIL-311. all the
                              > > 4000 series parts in the original project are still readily
                              > > available...there are quite a few modern day ram chips that you can
                              > > use to replace the originals as well. i use 32k cache ram chips in my
                              > > designs, they are easy to wire up, easy to come by, and give your elf
                              > > 32k...
                              > > I had made at one time a parallel port interface to one of my older
                              > > elfs, i will see if i can find the schematic for it...but in essence
                              > > it had a 74ls244 to gate the parallel port pins to the data bus of the
                              > > elf, the parallel /strobe line connected to the DMA_IN, and then i
                              > > used the decoding logic for the switch input to gate the 74ls244. i
                              > > removed the gating chip used by the switches so that they would not
                              > > conflict with the parallel port input. another way you can handle
                              > > that is to put a sfdt toggle on the gates for the switches on one side
                              > > and the 74ls244 strobe on the other, such that if the toggle is up,
                              > > the switches can be read, and if down, the parallel port interface
                              > > would be read.
                              > >
                              > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "thinkinginbinary"
                              > > <yahoo.20.thinkinginbinary@s...> wrote:
                              > > > Lee Hart wrote:
                              > > > > thinkinginbinary wrote:
                              > > > > > So what do you put for "Company", "Title", "Application" and
                              such
                              > > > > > when you're a high school student building a replica of an old
                              > > > > > computer? ;-)
                              > > > >
                              > > > > There is a long and distinguished tradition for budding engineers
                              > > > > and technicians to create companies just to get parts and data
                              > > > > sheets. One (true) story I like is that when the movie "2001 -- A
                              > > > > Space Oddessy" came out, it featured a computer called the HAL
                              9000
                              > > > > from a company in Urbana IL. So, students in Urbana IL started a
                              > > > > company, HAL Devices, reasoning that they would need to start work
                              > > > > on it right away! The company still exists.
                              > > > >
                              > > > > I used "MMSI" (Me, Myself and I). Friends have used "FDT&S
                              > > > > Associates (Fiddle, Diddle, Tweak, and Scrounge), Dectron
                              Bydlenium
                              > > > > (meaningless), Foobar Electronics, Bogus Enterprises, and many
                              more.
                              > > >
                              > > > Hehehe...
                              > > >
                              > > > > If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck; it's a duck. So,
                              > > > > set everything up so you can look and act like a business. You
                              > > > > literally set up your own sole proprietership company, complete
                              > > > > with letterhead, business cards, mailing address, email address,
                              > > > > website, phone number, bank account, etc. Of course, it's your own
                              > > > > personal address, bank account, etc. but they won't check and
                              don't
                              > > > > care anyway. In most places, all it takes is a trip to the county
                              > > > > clerk's office and $10 or so to register a business name.
                              > > >
                              > > > I'm not even going to bother setting up a "business" or a
                              business. A
                              > > > fake name (registered or not) should be enough to get stuff from
                              them.
                              > > > ;-) I used "TJT Enterprises" for the company, "Embedded controller"
                              > > > (what else *are* 1802's used for ;-) for the Application. I put
                              > > > "(internal use)" for "End Customer", reasoning that putting my own
                              > > > name would be a bit of a giveaway.
                              > > >
                              > > > But this is gonna be fun... ;-)
                              > > >
                              > > > Does anyone have a list of modern equivalents of the rest of the
                              > > > chips, since I'm not really familiar with everything they use.
                              (I've
                              > > > been a software guy for most of my life but only now am I really
                              > > > getting into hardware/electronics.)
                              > > >
                              > > > Another question: is it possible to use a parallel port to
                              control the
                              > > > data bus and the input switch, to make a computer programmer for the
                              > > ELF?
                              > > >
                              > > > See ya,
                              > > >
                              > > > Tom
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