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Pilot

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  • David N. Elliott
    I ve upload to the file section a wave file of Pilot. This was used on a Netronics Elf. I haven t been able to convert it with Elf Tools, so I uploaded it to
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 21, 2004
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      I've upload to the file section a wave file of Pilot. This was used
      on a Netronics Elf. I haven't been able to convert it with Elf
      Tools, so I uploaded it to give others a shot at it. I'm working to
      get the Elf working again, so this file hasn't been tested within
      the last..20 some odd years.
      Elliott
    • cdp1861
      ... used ... to ... This is quite a coincidence. For some time now I have only been able to look in once in a while. Just now I m looking for the PILOT
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 21, 2004
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        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "David N. Elliott" <elliott@e...>
        wrote:
        > I've upload to the file section a wave file of Pilot. This was
        used
        > on a Netronics Elf. I haven't been able to convert it with Elf
        > Tools, so I uploaded it to give others a shot at it. I'm working
        to
        > get the Elf working again, so this file hasn't been tested within
        > the last..20 some odd years.
        > Elliott

        This is quite a coincidence. For some time now I have only been able
        to look in once in a while. Just now I'm looking for the PILOT
        handbook since I seem to have forgotten almost the complete Syntax.

        I hooked my Notebook to the Elf II as terminal and it works fine. My
        old copy of PILOT still loads. I'll try to make a binary and post it
        here. I know the settings for Elf Tools are not always easy to find,
        but at least I know the proper settings for my own tapes.

        Richard
      • cdp1861
        I just gave your file a try, but it appears to be corrupt. I downloaded it twice, just to make sure. Elf Tools insists that the data chunk is too short. Is
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 21, 2004
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          I just gave your file a try, but it appears to be corrupt. I
          downloaded it twice, just to make sure. Elf Tools insists that the
          data chunk is too short. Is this possible? Otherwise the fault may
          be with the WAV file format. It's not uncommon that some tools do
          not fully comply with the documented specifications.
        • David N. Elliott
          Richard, I reuploaded the file. I d like to know what your timing setting are. elliott
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 24, 2004
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            Richard,
            I reuploaded the file. I'd like to know what your timing setting are.
            elliott



            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
            <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
            > I just gave your file a try, but it appears to be corrupt. I
            > downloaded it twice, just to make sure. Elf Tools insists that the
            > data chunk is too short. Is this possible? Otherwise the fault may
            > be with the WAV file format. It's not uncommon that some tools do
            > not fully comply with the documented specifications.
          • cdp1861
            Hello again! I ve just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that this WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears to be of less
            Message 5 of 11 , May 11 9:55 AM
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              Hello again!

              I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that this
              WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears to be
              of less than optimal quality and the program would have a hard time
              converting it.

              As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted, just as
              mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can use the
              default values. Medium averaging produced the best results, but
              still the program got stuck in the middle.

              It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere in the
              leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the program to get
              started. Also the volume still was too high. The program analyzes
              the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the amplitude
              is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program interprets
              these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You can see
              that in the red graph. For best result there should be no gaps or
              glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this to some
              degree.

              Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a problem. If
              you give me some samples, I will try to add some preprocessing to
              improve the program. Up to now I still got all files converted, at
              least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.

              For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of Netronics
              PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have completely
              forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...

              Richard
            • rileym65
              I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this version of pilot use for I/O???
              Message 6 of 11 , May 11 1:44 PM
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                I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this version of
                pilot use for I/O???

                --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                > Hello again!
                >
                > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that this
                > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears to be
                > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a hard time
                > converting it.
                >
                > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted, just as
                > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can use the
                > default values. Medium averaging produced the best results, but
                > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                >
                > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere in the
                > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the program to get
                > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program analyzes
                > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the amplitude
                > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program interprets
                > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You can see
                > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no gaps or
                > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this to some
                > degree.
                >
                > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a problem. If
                > you give me some samples, I will try to add some preprocessing to
                > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files converted, at
                > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                >
                > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of Netronics
                > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have completely
                > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                >
                > Richard
              • rileym65
                I got this running! :) Here is what i have figured out about its editor: A - Read from tape B - Beginning line C - Clear program D - Move down
                Message 7 of 11 , May 12 2:55 PM
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                  I got this running! :)
                  Here is what i have figured out about its editor:

                  A - Read from tape
                  B - Beginning line
                  C - Clear program
                  D - Move down one line
                  E - End line
                  Itext - Insert line
                  K - Kill current line
                  L - Not sure, prints ->Is the memory limit
                  M - Not sure, crashed after outputting garbage to my terminal
                  R - Run
                  S - Save to tape
                  T - Type current line
                  U - Move up one line
                  W - Changes line width?

                  I am still working on its dialect, when i get it figure out i will
                  post it here.

                  --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:I h
                  > I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this version of
                  > pilot use for I/O???
                  >
                  > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                  > <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                  > > Hello again!
                  > >
                  > > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that this
                  > > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears to be
                  > > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a hard time
                  > > converting it.
                  > >
                  > > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted, just as
                  > > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can use the
                  > > default values. Medium averaging produced the best results, but
                  > > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                  > >
                  > > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere in the
                  > > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the program to get
                  > > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program analyzes
                  > > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the amplitude
                  > > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program interprets
                  > > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You can see
                  > > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no gaps or
                  > > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this to some
                  > > degree.
                  > >
                  > > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a problem. If
                  > > you give me some samples, I will try to add some preprocessing to
                  > > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files converted, at
                  > > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                  > >
                  > > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of Netronics
                  > > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have completely
                  > > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                  > >
                  > > Richard
                • David N. Elliott
                  Richard, Could you post the switches you used for your emulator in order to get this to run? Thanks, Elliott ... h ... of ... this ... to be ... time ... as
                  Message 8 of 11 , May 13 6:08 AM
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                    Richard,
                    Could you post the switches you used for your emulator in order to
                    get this to run?
                    Thanks,
                    Elliott





                    --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                    > I got this running! :)
                    > Here is what i have figured out about its editor:
                    >
                    > A - Read from tape
                    > B - Beginning line
                    > C - Clear program
                    > D - Move down one line
                    > E - End line
                    > Itext - Insert line
                    > K - Kill current line
                    > L - Not sure, prints ->Is the memory limit
                    > M - Not sure, crashed after outputting garbage to my terminal
                    > R - Run
                    > S - Save to tape
                    > T - Type current line
                    > U - Move up one line
                    > W - Changes line width?
                    >
                    > I am still working on its dialect, when i get it figure out i will
                    > post it here.
                    >
                    > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:I
                    h
                    > > I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this version
                    of
                    > > pilot use for I/O???
                    > >
                    > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                    > > <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                    > > > Hello again!
                    > > >
                    > > > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that
                    this
                    > > > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears
                    to be
                    > > > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a hard
                    time
                    > > > converting it.
                    > > >
                    > > > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted, just
                    as
                    > > > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can use
                    the
                    > > > default values. Medium averaging produced the best results,
                    but
                    > > > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                    > > >
                    > > > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere in
                    the
                    > > > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the program
                    to get
                    > > > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program
                    analyzes
                    > > > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the
                    amplitude
                    > > > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program
                    interprets
                    > > > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You can
                    see
                    > > > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no gaps
                    or
                    > > > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this to
                    some
                    > > > degree.
                    > > >
                    > > > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a problem.
                    If
                    > > > you give me some samples, I will try to add some preprocessing
                    to
                    > > > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files
                    converted, at
                    > > > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                    > > >
                    > > > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of
                    Netronics
                    > > > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have
                    completely
                    > > > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                    > > >
                    > > > Richard
                  • rileym65
                    Here is the settings i used to get this running: elf -elf2 -32k -vt100 -baud=300 -a -r pilot.rom -ref4 -uc Mike
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 13 6:44 AM
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                      Here is the settings i used to get this running:

                      elf -elf2 -32k -vt100 -baud=300 -a -r pilot.rom -ref4 -uc

                      Mike

                      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "David N. Elliott" <elliott@e...> wrote:
                      > Richard,
                      > Could you post the switches you used for your emulator in order to
                      > get this to run?
                      > Thanks,
                      > Elliott
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                      > > I got this running! :)
                      > > Here is what i have figured out about its editor:
                      > >
                      > > A - Read from tape
                      > > B - Beginning line
                      > > C - Clear program
                      > > D - Move down one line
                      > > E - End line
                      > > Itext - Insert line
                      > > K - Kill current line
                      > > L - Not sure, prints ->Is the memory limit
                      > > M - Not sure, crashed after outputting garbage to my terminal
                      > > R - Run
                      > > S - Save to tape
                      > > T - Type current line
                      > > U - Move up one line
                      > > W - Changes line width?
                      > >
                      > > I am still working on its dialect, when i get it figure out i will
                      > > post it here.
                      > >
                      > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:I
                      > h
                      > > > I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this version
                      > of
                      > > > pilot use for I/O???
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                      > > > <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                      > > > > Hello again!
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is, that
                      > this
                      > > > > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal appears
                      > to be
                      > > > > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a hard
                      > time
                      > > > > converting it.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted, just
                      > as
                      > > > > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can use
                      > the
                      > > > > default values. Medium averaging produced the best results,
                      > but
                      > > > > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere in
                      > the
                      > > > > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the program
                      > to get
                      > > > > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program
                      > analyzes
                      > > > > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the
                      > amplitude
                      > > > > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program
                      > interprets
                      > > > > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You can
                      > see
                      > > > > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no gaps
                      > or
                      > > > > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this to
                      > some
                      > > > > degree.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a problem.
                      > If
                      > > > > you give me some samples, I will try to add some preprocessing
                      > to
                      > > > > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files
                      > converted, at
                      > > > > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                      > > > >
                      > > > > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of
                      > Netronics
                      > > > > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have
                      > completely
                      > > > > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > Richard
                    • David N. Elliott
                      Mike, What is the switch -ref4 do? What should the entry point be -jump to what? Elliott ... to ... terminal ... will ... wrote:I ... version ... that ...
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 13 9:21 AM
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                        Mike,
                        What is the switch -ref4 do? What should the entry point be -jump to
                        what?
                        Elliott


                        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > Here is the settings i used to get this running:
                        >
                        > elf -elf2 -32k -vt100 -baud=300 -a -r pilot.rom -ref4 -uc
                        >
                        > Mike
                        >
                        > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "David N. Elliott"
                        <elliott@e...> wrote:
                        > > Richard,
                        > > Could you post the switches you used for your emulator in order
                        to
                        > > get this to run?
                        > > Thanks,
                        > > Elliott
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                        > > > I got this running! :)
                        > > > Here is what i have figured out about its editor:
                        > > >
                        > > > A - Read from tape
                        > > > B - Beginning line
                        > > > C - Clear program
                        > > > D - Move down one line
                        > > > E - End line
                        > > > Itext - Insert line
                        > > > K - Kill current line
                        > > > L - Not sure, prints ->Is the memory limit
                        > > > M - Not sure, crashed after outputting garbage to my
                        terminal
                        > > > R - Run
                        > > > S - Save to tape
                        > > > T - Type current line
                        > > > U - Move up one line
                        > > > W - Changes line width?
                        > > >
                        > > > I am still working on its dialect, when i get it figure out i
                        will
                        > > > post it here.
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...>
                        wrote:I
                        > > h
                        > > > > I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this
                        version
                        > > of
                        > > > > pilot use for I/O???
                        > > > >
                        > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                        > > > > <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                        > > > > > Hello again!
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is,
                        that
                        > > this
                        > > > > > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal
                        appears
                        > > to be
                        > > > > > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a
                        hard
                        > > time
                        > > > > > converting it.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted,
                        just
                        > > as
                        > > > > > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can
                        use
                        > > the
                        > > > > > default values. Medium averaging produced the best
                        results,
                        > > but
                        > > > > > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere
                        in
                        > > the
                        > > > > > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the
                        program
                        > > to get
                        > > > > > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program
                        > > analyzes
                        > > > > > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the
                        > > amplitude
                        > > > > > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program
                        > > interprets
                        > > > > > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You
                        can
                        > > see
                        > > > > > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no
                        gaps
                        > > or
                        > > > > > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this
                        to
                        > > some
                        > > > > > degree.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a
                        problem.
                        > > If
                        > > > > > you give me some samples, I will try to add some
                        preprocessing
                        > > to
                        > > > > > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files
                        > > converted, at
                        > > > > > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of
                        > > Netronics
                        > > > > > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have
                        > > completely
                        > > > > > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                        > > > > >
                        > > > > > Richard
                      • rileym65
                        the switch -ref4 reverses the sense on the EF4 line, pilot uses the opposite serial sense than programs like idiot/4 or tiny basic. You will need the latest
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 13 9:42 AM
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                          the switch -ref4 reverses the sense on the EF4 line, pilot uses the
                          opposite serial sense than programs like idiot/4 or tiny basic. You
                          will need the latest version of my emulator (2.0, this is available on
                          my website, both unix and windows versions) for this switch to work
                          correctly. The entry point is at 0000, with the switches i mentioned
                          before, all you have to do is enter run mode and press <ENTER> on the
                          vt100 window...
                          Mike

                          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "David N. Elliott" <elliott@e...> wrote:
                          > Mike,
                          > What is the switch -ref4 do? What should the entry point be -jump to
                          > what?
                          > Elliott
                          >
                          >
                          > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > Here is the settings i used to get this running:
                          > >
                          > > elf -elf2 -32k -vt100 -baud=300 -a -r pilot.rom -ref4 -uc
                          > >
                          > > Mike
                          > >
                          > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "David N. Elliott"
                          > <elliott@e...> wrote:
                          > > > Richard,
                          > > > Could you post the switches you used for your emulator in order
                          > to
                          > > > get this to run?
                          > > > Thanks,
                          > > > Elliott
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...> wrote:
                          > > > > I got this running! :)
                          > > > > Here is what i have figured out about its editor:
                          > > > >
                          > > > > A - Read from tape
                          > > > > B - Beginning line
                          > > > > C - Clear program
                          > > > > D - Move down one line
                          > > > > E - End line
                          > > > > Itext - Insert line
                          > > > > K - Kill current line
                          > > > > L - Not sure, prints ->Is the memory limit
                          > > > > M - Not sure, crashed after outputting garbage to my
                          > terminal
                          > > > > R - Run
                          > > > > S - Save to tape
                          > > > > T - Type current line
                          > > > > U - Move up one line
                          > > > > W - Changes line width?
                          > > > >
                          > > > > I am still working on its dialect, when i get it figure out i
                          > will
                          > > > > post it here.
                          > > > >
                          > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, rileym65 <no_reply@y...>
                          > wrote:I
                          > > > h
                          > > > > > I wanted to try this out in my emulator, what does this
                          > version
                          > > > of
                          > > > > > pilot use for I/O???
                          > > > > >
                          > > > > > --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "cdp1861"
                          > > > > > <richard.dienstknecht@m...> wrote:
                          > > > > > > Hello again!
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > I've just taken a look at the new file. The good news is,
                          > that
                          > > > this
                          > > > > > > WAV loads without problems. Unfortunately the signal
                          > appears
                          > > > to be
                          > > > > > > of less than optimal quality and the program would have a
                          > hard
                          > > > time
                          > > > > > > converting it.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > As far as I could see your taped programs are inverted,
                          > just
                          > > > as
                          > > > > > > mine. The timing seems to be standard, so you probably can
                          > use
                          > > > the
                          > > > > > > default values. Medium averaging produced the best
                          > results,
                          > > > but
                          > > > > > > still the program got stuck in the middle.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > It's best to clip the sample so that it starts somewhere
                          > in
                          > > > the
                          > > > > > > leading 'beep'. This makes it somewhat easier for the
                          > program
                          > > > to get
                          > > > > > > started. Also the volume still was too high. The program
                          > > > analyzes
                          > > > > > > the slopes, so the amplitude is not so important. If the
                          > > > amplitude
                          > > > > > > is too high, parts of the slopes are lost and the program
                          > > > interprets
                          > > > > > > these flat sections as gaps which may lead to errors. You
                          > can
                          > > > see
                          > > > > > > that in the red graph. For best result there should be no
                          > gaps
                          > > > or
                          > > > > > > glitches in it. The averaging setting can compensate this
                          > to
                          > > > some
                          > > > > > > degree.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Please let me know if all your tapes turn out to be a
                          > problem.
                          > > > If
                          > > > > > > you give me some samples, I will try to add some
                          > preprocessing
                          > > > to
                          > > > > > > improve the program. Up to now I still got all files
                          > > > converted, at
                          > > > > > > least if the original recording was not badly corrupted.
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > For the moment I have uploaded a conversion of my copy of
                          > > > Netronics
                          > > > > > > PILOT. You don't happen to have the documentation? I have
                          > > > completely
                          > > > > > > forgotten the syntax. It has been some years...
                          > > > > > >
                          > > > > > > Richard
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