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Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost

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  • thinkpast
    I m aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 16, 2013
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      I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.

      I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages -  no thumbnails, no links to attachments.

      If this were just my problem,  I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.

      The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.

      It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if  *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)

      Herb Johnson
      retrotechnology.com
    • bill rowe
      Herb: I m probably a guilty party on this. It s so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 17, 2013
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        Herb: I'm probably a guilty party on this.  It's so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone looking for old material in the yahoo group and been disappointed by missing links and images. Even in my "sent messages" I sometimes have to go through hoops to see the images.

        I sometimes post things on a wordpress blog(https://olduino.wordpress.com/) which is maybe a bit better for visibility but the longevity issue remains.  I haven't used the yahoo site for photos because of perceived storage shortages but maybe that changed lately.  That would probably be the best solution if it's easy to use.  I'll look for my yahoo password and try reposting the last thing i did as an example. 



        To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
        From: hjohnson@...
        Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:55:30 -0800
        Subject: [cosmacelf] Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost

         
        I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.

        I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages -  no thumbnails, no links to attachments.

        If this were just my problem,  I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.

        The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.

        It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if  *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)

        Herb Johnson
        retrotechnology.com
      • bill_rowe@rogers.com
        I reposted with the images as file attachments instead of inline pictures. I can see them online anyway. I also tried creating an album in photos and
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 17, 2013
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          I reposted with the images as file attachments instead of inline pictures. I can see them online anyway. I also tried creating an album in photos and uploading them there but they have to be approved - this is understandable but seems painful.

          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:
          >
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          > Herb: I'm probably a guilty party on this. It's so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone looking for old material in the yahoo group and been disappointed by missing links and images. Even in my "sent messages" I sometimes have to go through hoops to see the images.
          > I sometimes post things on a wordpress blog(https://olduino.wordpress.com/) which is maybe a bit better for visibility but the longevity issue remains. I haven't used the yahoo site for photos because of perceived storage shortages but maybe that changed lately. That would probably be the best solution if it's easy to use. I'll look for my yahoo password and try reposting the last thing i did as an example.
          >
          > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
          > From: hjohnson@...
          > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:55:30 -0800
          > Subject: [cosmacelf] Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost
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          > I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.
          >
          > I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages - no thumbnails, no links to attachments.
          >
          > If this were just my problem, I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.
          >
          > The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.
          >
          > It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)
          >
          > Herb Johnson
          > retrotechnology.com
          >
        • joshbensadon
          Hi Bill & Herb, It s not a pain on my part to approve the photo s, I get an email with a link to the pending photo s and a few clicks later they are
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 17, 2013
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            Hi Bill & Herb,


            It's not a pain on my part to approve the photo's, I get an email with a link to the "pending photo's" and a few clicks later they are approved.  I would say the pain is having to make a folder and upload them, when it was easier to just attach to the email.  Imho, all these "modern" computers aren't any better than the vintage ones!  I'm sure a lot can be said about the subject of bloatware and the lack of "thoughtful/considerate" programming.


            This is not the only forum / board that is having "issues" with their system.  I vote we fire up our vintage computers and take back the internet!


            :) Josh






            ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:

            I reposted with the images as file attachments instead of inline pictures. I can see them online anyway. I also tried creating an album in photos and uploading them there but they have to be approved - this is understandable but seems painful.

            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Herb: I'm probably a guilty party on this. It's so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone looking for old material in the yahoo group and been disappointed by missing links and images. Even in my "sent messages" I sometimes have to go through hoops to see the images.
            > I sometimes post things on a wordpress blog(https://olduino.wordpress.com/) which is maybe a bit better for visibility but the longevity issue remains. I haven't used the yahoo site for photos because of perceived storage shortages but maybe that changed lately. That would probably be the best solution if it's easy to use. I'll look for my yahoo password and try reposting the last thing i did as an example.
            >
            > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
            > From: hjohnson@...
            > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:55:30 -0800
            > Subject: [cosmacelf] Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost
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            > I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.
            >
            > I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages - no thumbnails, no links to attachments.
            >
            > If this were just my problem, I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.
            >
            > The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.
            >
            > It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)
            >
            > Herb Johnson
            > retrotechnology.com
            >
          • bill rowe
            josh: thanks. The file attachments approach is certainly more straightforward and the pictures should be visible through yahoo. To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 17, 2013
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              josh: thanks. The file attachments approach is certainly more straightforward and the pictures should be visible through yahoo.



              To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
              From: joshbensadon@...
              Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2013 10:35:42 -0800
              Subject: [cosmacelf] RE: Re: Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost

               

              Hi Bill & Herb,


              It's not a pain on my part to approve the photo's, I get an email with a link to the "pending photo's" and a few clicks later they are approved.  I would say the pain is having to make a folder and upload them, when it was easier to just attach to the email.  Imho, all these "modern" computers aren't any better than the vintage ones!  I'm sure a lot can be said about the subject of bloatware and the lack of "thoughtful/considerate" programming.


              This is not the only forum / board that is having "issues" with their system.  I vote we fire up our vintage computers and take back the internet!


              :) Josh







              ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:

              I reposted with the images as file attachments instead of inline pictures. I can see them online anyway. I also tried creating an album in photos and uploading them there but they have to be approved - this is understandable but seems painful.

              --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > Herb: I'm probably a guilty party on this. It's so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone looking for old material in the yahoo group and been disappointed by missing links and images. Even in my "sent messages" I sometimes have to go through hoops to see the images.
              > I sometimes post things on a wordpress blog(https://olduino.wordpress.com/) which is maybe a bit better for visibility but the longevity issue remains. I haven't used the yahoo site for photos because of perceived storage shortages but maybe that changed lately. That would probably be the best solution if it's easy to use. I'll look for my yahoo password and try reposting the last thing i did as an example.
              >
              > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
              > From: hjohnson@...
              > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:55:30 -0800
              > Subject: [cosmacelf] Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >
              >
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              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.
              >
              > I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages - no thumbnails, no links to attachments.
              >
              > If this were just my problem, I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.
              >
              > The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.
              >
              > It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)
              >
              > Herb Johnson
              > retrotechnology.com
              >

            • somaspack
              It s not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do. Scott ... Hi Bill & Herb, It s not
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 18, 2013
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                It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.


                Scott 



                ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <joshbensadon@...> wrote:

                Hi Bill & Herb,


                It's not a pain on my part to approve the photo's, I get an email with a link to the "pending photo's" and a few clicks later they are approved.  I would say the pain is having to make a folder and upload them, when it was easier to just attach to the email.  Imho, all these "modern" computers aren't any better than the vintage ones!  I'm sure a lot can be said about the subject of bloatware and the lack of "thoughtful/considerate" programming.


                This is not the only forum / board that is having "issues" with their system.  I vote we fire up our vintage computers and take back the internet!


                :) Josh






                ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:

                I reposted with the images as file attachments instead of inline pictures. I can see them online anyway. I also tried creating an album in photos and uploading them there but they have to be approved - this is understandable but seems painful.

                --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Herb: I'm probably a guilty party on this. It's so easy to use the hotmail insert but the results are often less than satisfactory. I have certainly gone looking for old material in the yahoo group and been disappointed by missing links and images. Even in my "sent messages" I sometimes have to go through hoops to see the images.
                > I sometimes post things on a wordpress blog(https://olduino.wordpress.com/) which is maybe a bit better for visibility but the longevity issue remains. I haven't used the yahoo site for photos because of perceived storage shortages but maybe that changed lately. That would probably be the best solution if it's easy to use. I'll look for my yahoo password and try reposting the last thing i did as an example.
                >
                > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
                > From: hjohnson@...
                > Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2013 18:55:30 -0800
                > Subject: [cosmacelf] Reading posts via Yahoo Website - attachments lost
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm aware from prior experience, that almost no one reads Yahoo discussion groups like cosmacelf, via the groups.yahoo.com Web site - they simply get the email "feed". For various reasons I'm not discussing here, I don't take the emails, I use the Website.
                >
                > I call this out, because as I read various posts (on the Yahoo cosmacelf "conversations" page) lately, they say "see below" and refer to attached photos. However, these attached photos don't seem to be available. I know they exist because the "read source" option shows me the raw email message and references to various "blahblah.jpg" files. For some messages, there are attached photos and files shown in thumbnail;some (not all) can be accessed by mousing the thumbnail. For some messages - no thumbnails, no links to attachments.
                >
                > If this were just my problem, I'd not fuss. Except....say a year from now, someone new, reviews the Yahoo site and wants to pick up on a bit of prior work which was posted/emailed. They may not have access to attached objects (photos, text). So that work will be "lost" if the creator/poster can't be reached to provide it offline, or doesn't have that material around.
                >
                > The long-term loss of prior work is a problem in vintage computing. Most cosmacelf members become aware of that at some point. Certainly now-current work of interest and in discussion ought to be made more accessible for the long term, if not for next year's members.
                >
                > It's possible I've missed feature of use of the Web site/interface - if so my apologies but inform me and maybe others. If not, members who participate via email may want to log into the Web site to see if *all* their posted content is available and if not, consider work-arounds or find out how some members "get" their content "in" but why their attached content is not "taken". I have no idea - as I said, I don't work that way...imagine why? ;)
                >
                > Herb Johnson
                > retrotechnology.com
                >
              • Dana Myers
                ... As a programmer, I ve seen a number of instances where this isn t the case. Sometimes the hardware doesn t do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one
                Message 7 of 11 , Nov 18, 2013
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                  On 11/18/2013 11:42 AM, somaspack@... wrote:
                   

                  It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.



                  As a programmer, I've seen a number of instances where this isn't the case. Sometimes
                  the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one of them for me.

                  Dana  K6JQ

                • joshbensadon
                  Yeah, the old saying Garbage in, garbage out will always hold true. But there s something to be said about programmers that had so little to work with, but
                  Message 8 of 11 , Nov 18, 2013
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                    Yeah, the old saying "Garbage in, garbage out" will always hold true.  But there's something to be said about programmers that had so little to work with, but could still do the job with perhaps better performance than today's GHz computers.


                    The other day, Lee and I were talking about the idea of bit banging a serial port using "C".  We both had a good laugh about it. 


                    Well, there is little point talking about the obvious.

                    But what if it's not the programmers either?  What if it's their boss's that demand programs be released faster?  What if it's our fault for buying all this?  I remember a teacher that would punish both the student that talked and the student that listened.  Was she right?


                    :)J






                    ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <dana.myers@...> wrote:

                    On 11/18/2013 11:42 AM, somaspack@... wrote:
                     

                    It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.



                    As a programmer, I've seen a number of instances where this isn't the case. Sometimes
                    the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one of them for me.

                    Dana  K6JQ

                  • thinkpast
                    ... (chuckle) The issue is not about whether the computer (Yahoo) is doing what we are programming . It s the opposite. Given what Yahoo *does* under
                    Message 9 of 11 , Nov 19, 2013
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                      >> For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.


                      >. Sometimes the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one
                      of them for me.

                      (chuckle) The issue is not about whether "the computer" (Yahoo) is doing what we are "programming". It's the opposite. Given what Yahoo *does* under various circumstances, how do we program *ourselves* to produce the desired results? The legacy of vintage computing is, it started with humans programming "the computer", when computing resources were scarce. Now with computing resources in abundance, it's humans who are adapting to whatever computing we are obliged to deal with.

                      Herb Johnson
                      retrotechnology.com


                      ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <dana.myers@...> wrote:

                      On 11/18/2013 11:42 AM, somaspack@... wrote:
                       

                      It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.



                      As a programmer, I've seen a number of instances where this isn't the case. Sometimes
                      the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one of them for me.

                      Dana  K6JQ

                    • thinkpast
                      Shakespeare: the fault lies not in the stars, but in ourselves . Point being: I ve presented a problem with use of Yahoo groups - daily email users, versus
                      Message 10 of 11 , Nov 19, 2013
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                        Shakespeare: "the fault lies not in the stars, but in ourselves". Point being: I've presented a problem with use of Yahoo groups - daily email users, versus long term archives in files via Yahoo's Web interface. And Yahoo keeps changing the rules. Stuff is getting lost.

                        The solution is to be aware of how one's daily use, affects future archival use. For many messages "archiving" doesn't matter. For useful work, archiving and Web access matters. How do we fix this? Thanks to Bill Rowe for getting right to it.

                        Suggestion: an updated document with accumulated guidelines to avoid loss, available to the members. It's a bit of "maintenance" work, but all tools need maintenance. Also: I suggest daily-email members who post often, "check in" on occasion via the Web, to see what Yahoo has done with their good works. They can contribute to those guidelines, by noting the practices that work and don't work. The goal is to make one's work available in the future, as Yahoo changes the rules.

                        That assumes, if one is posting substantive material, they want it to be available another day, which is a personal decision. But a necessary part of this group's mission, is to chase down work decades old. Someone in the future may appreciate something posted today - if they can find it.

                        Herb Johnson
                        retrotechnology.com


                        ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <joshbensadon@...> wrote:

                        Yeah, the old saying "Garbage in, garbage out" will always hold true.  But there's something to be said about programmers that had so little to work with, but could still do the job with perhaps better performance than today's GHz computers.


                        The other day, Lee and I were talking about the idea of bit banging a serial port using "C".  We both had a good laugh about it. 


                        Well, there is little point talking about the obvious.

                        But what if it's not the programmers either?  What if it's their boss's that demand programs be released faster?  What if it's our fault for buying all this?  I remember a teacher that would punish both the student that talked and the student that listened.  Was she right?


                        :)J






                        ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <dana.myers@...> wrote:

                        On 11/18/2013 11:42 AM, somaspack@... wrote:
                         

                        It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.



                        As a programmer, I've seen a number of instances where this isn't the case. Sometimes
                        the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one of them for me.

                        Dana  K6JQ

                      • somaspack
                        As an involved Yahoo Groups person, the lack of search is certainly affecting archiving. The only solution I see is to upload the relevant information. And
                        Message 11 of 11 , Nov 19, 2013
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                          As an involved Yahoo Groups person, the lack of search is certainly affecting archiving. The only solution I see is to upload the relevant information. And when the new members ask 'how, what, why', the list responds with 'See the files section...'


                          My guess is that Yahoo is too worried about DOS attacks from bots performing unconstrained searches across groups.


                          Scott



                          ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <hjohnson@...> wrote:

                          Shakespeare: "the fault lies not in the stars, but in ourselves". Point being: I've presented a problem with use of Yahoo groups - daily email users, versus long term archives in files via Yahoo's Web interface. And Yahoo keeps changing the rules. Stuff is getting lost.

                          The solution is to be aware of how one's daily use, affects future archival use. For many messages "archiving" doesn't matter. For useful work, archiving and Web access matters. How do we fix this? Thanks to Bill Rowe for getting right to it.

                          Suggestion: an updated document with accumulated guidelines to avoid loss, available to the members. It's a bit of "maintenance" work, but all tools need maintenance. Also: I suggest daily-email members who post often, "check in" on occasion via the Web, to see what Yahoo has done with their good works. They can contribute to those guidelines, by noting the practices that work and don't work. The goal is to make one's work available in the future, as Yahoo changes the rules.

                          That assumes, if one is posting substantive material, they want it to be available another day, which is a personal decision. But a necessary part of this group's mission, is to chase down work decades old. Someone in the future may appreciate something posted today - if they can find it.

                          Herb Johnson
                          retrotechnology.com


                          ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <joshbensadon@...> wrote:

                          Yeah, the old saying "Garbage in, garbage out" will always hold true.  But there's something to be said about programmers that had so little to work with, but could still do the job with perhaps better performance than today's GHz computers.


                          The other day, Lee and I were talking about the idea of bit banging a serial port using "C".  We both had a good laugh about it. 


                          Well, there is little point talking about the obvious.

                          But what if it's not the programmers either?  What if it's their boss's that demand programs be released faster?  What if it's our fault for buying all this?  I remember a teacher that would punish both the student that talked and the student that listened.  Was she right?


                          :)J






                          ---In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, <dana.myers@...> wrote:

                          On 11/18/2013 11:42 AM, somaspack@... wrote:
                           

                          It's not the computers who are at fault, but the programmers. For a computer never did a thing it was not programmed to do.



                          As a programmer, I've seen a number of instances where this isn't the case. Sometimes
                          the hardware doesn't do what you tell it to :-) The 1802 is not one of them for me.

                          Dana  K6JQ

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