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Is there an error in the ELF's Parts list?

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  • joshbensadon
    I m collecting parts to build another ELF. I m challenging myself to find as many original parts as possible. In some ways, this ELF will be more original
    Message 1 of 6 , Jun 13, 2013
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      I'm collecting parts to build another ELF. I'm challenging myself to find as many original parts as possible. In some ways, this ELF will be more original than the one I built in 1979.

      I'm a little confused about the voltage regulator. I recently found some 7805's with a 1974 date code, but the parts list calls for an LM309K. Lee Hart told me that the "K" version meant TO-3 case style, which sounds right to me but I got confused when I read the ELF's part's list.

      PE1976-Aug-pg35... Parts List, "IC13-LM309K 5-volt regulator IC".

      Of course, the photo of the ELF uses a TO-220.
      Could there have been an LM309K version that did come in a TO-220?
      Or perhaps a TO-3 device was originally thought to be required and/or might have been at hand when used in an early prototype?

      In the text body, it's only referred to as an LM309.
      I am guessing it's just an error, further down that same column, it's written to use a "board with 0.1" (2.54 cm) hole spacing".
      Perhaps when Joseph Weisbecker wrote the parts list, he had LM309K on his mind?

      We are likely to never know, but there is fun in speculating.

      :)J
    • Mark Graybill
      This gets even more interesting. When I opened up my National Semiconductor Voltage Regulator Manual from 1978, the final page of the LM309 datasheet has an
      Message 2 of 6 , Jun 13, 2013
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        This gets even more interesting. When I opened up my National Semiconductor Voltage Regulator Manual from 1978, the final page of the LM309 datasheet has an error, they put the LM317 page in place of the final page of the 309 datasheet.

        If we assume the 309 was available in the same packages as the 317 we get:
        K suffix for TO-3
        H suffix for TO-39
        T suffix for TO-220
        MP suffix for TO-202

        Variant 309 package designations I found from other companies in their contemporary databooks were:
        KC for TO-3 (Fairchild, uA309)
        LA for TO-39 (TI)

        The K was easily the most common available at the time. It's possible that an editor put the K in when reviewing the BOM. It should have been a T to match the images, but K's were available from more of the hobby suppliers at that time.

        Finally I resorted to the same parts drawer from which I took the regulators to build mine. In it I found only LM317Ts and MC7805CTs from that time in T packages, everything else is in an H or CG package. I know I used a TO-220, and I recall adding an input capacitor when I added an external DC adaptor to my battery-powered Elf. So I'm guessing I substituted a 7805 on mine in 1976. I did use a K package on a later one, though, and remember that I had a habit of avoiding touching it, even though it never even got warm (I'd been burned by TO-3s elsewhere.)

        There you go, still no definitive answer, even when referring to the NS databook.

        Mark G., W8BIT
        saundby.com

        On Jun 13, 2013 7:19 AM, "joshbensadon" <joshbensadon@...> wrote:
         

        I'm collecting parts to build another ELF. I'm challenging myself to find as many original parts as possible. In some ways, this ELF will be more original than the one I built in 1979.

        I'm a little confused about the voltage regulator. I recently found some 7805's with a 1974 date code, but the parts list calls for an LM309K. Lee Hart told me that the "K" version meant TO-3 case style, which sounds right to me but I got confused when I read the ELF's part's list.

        PE1976-Aug-pg35... Parts List, "IC13-LM309K 5-volt regulator IC".

        Of course, the photo of the ELF uses a TO-220.
        Could there have been an LM309K version that did come in a TO-220?
        Or perhaps a TO-3 device was originally thought to be required and/or might have been at hand when used in an early prototype?

        In the text body, it's only referred to as an LM309.
        I am guessing it's just an error, further down that same column, it's written to use a "board with 0.1" (2.54 cm) hole spacing".
        Perhaps when Joseph Weisbecker wrote the parts list, he had LM309K on his mind?

        We are likely to never know, but there is fun in speculating.

        :)J

      • David W. Schultz
        ... Just to add some more noise to this I dug a TO-3 LM309KC out of the parts bin and it has the squiggles that indicate it was made by National Semiconductor.
        Message 3 of 6 , Jun 17, 2013
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          On 06/13/2013 03:44 PM, Mark Graybill wrote:
          >
          >
          > This gets even more interesting. When I opened up my National
          > Semiconductor Voltage Regulator Manual from 1978, the final page of the
          > LM309 datasheet has an error, they put the LM317 page in place of the
          > final page of the 309 datasheet.
          >
          > If we assume the 309 was available in the same packages as the 317 we get:
          > K suffix for TO-3
          > H suffix for TO-39
          > T suffix for TO-220
          > MP suffix for TO-202
          >
          > Variant 309 package designations I found from other companies in their
          > contemporary databooks were:
          > KC for TO-3 (Fairchild, uA309)
          > LA for TO-39 (TI)
          >

          Just to add some more noise to this I dug a TO-3 LM309KC out of the
          parts bin and it has the squiggles that indicate it was made by National
          Semiconductor. I vaguely recall purchasing this at one of the local
          semiconductor vendors (local being Albuquerque at the time) and having a
          discussion about the "KC" designation.

          I needed it for an external power supply when I added 8KB of power
          hungry NMOS SRAM to my Elf.


          --
          David W. Schultz
          http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
          Returned for Regrooving
        • Josh Bensadon
          ... KC? Never seen one. Interesting though. There must be some meaning to it, but what? ... Hmm, that s a very interesting comment. I added all kinds of
          Message 4 of 6 , Jun 17, 2013
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            --- On Mon, 6/17/13, David W. Schultz <david.schultz@...> wrote:
            >
            > Just to add some more noise to this I dug a TO-3 LM309KC out
            > of the
            > parts bin and it has the squiggles that indicate it was made
            > by National
            > Semiconductor. I vaguely recall purchasing this at one of
            > the local
            > semiconductor vendors (local being Albuquerque at the time)
            > and having a
            > discussion about the "KC" designation.

            KC? Never seen one. Interesting though. There must be some meaning to it, but what?


            > I needed it for an external power supply when I added 8KB of
            > power
            > hungry NMOS SRAM to my Elf.
            >

            Hmm, that's a very interesting comment. I added all kinds of stuff to my ELF. There was the 4K extended memory, (part 3 showed me how, I just substituted 2114's for the 2102's). Also I added extra I/O ports, a D/A & A/D converter and a Random number generator. But I don't remember what I did about power? I must have improved the 5V regulator, even if only to add a better heat sink? I'll have to search my memory.

            :)J
          • Lee Hart
            ... C often means commercial grade, i.e. a 0-70 deg.C part. So KC is a TO-3 case, 0-70 deg.C operating temperature range. -- There ain t no rules around
            Message 5 of 6 , Jun 17, 2013
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              Josh Bensadon wrote:
              > KC? Never seen one. Interesting though. There must be some meaning
              > to it, but what?

              "C" often means "commercial" grade, i.e. a 0-70 deg.C part.

              So KC is a TO-3 case, 0-70 deg.C operating temperature range.
              --
              There ain't no rules around here. We're trying to accomplish something!
              -- Thomas A. Edison
              --
              Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
            • David W. Schultz
              ... This was a long time ago so my recollection is vague at best but I believe that KC was a new aluminum case. It is non-magnetic and weighs ~7 grams. --
              Message 6 of 6 , Jun 17, 2013
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                On 06/17/2013 08:23 PM, Josh Bensadon wrote:
                > KC? Never seen one. Interesting though. There must be some meaning
                > to it, but what?
                >

                This was a long time ago so my recollection is vague at best but I
                believe that "KC" was a new aluminum case.

                It is non-magnetic and weighs ~7 grams.


                --
                David W. Schultz
                http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
                Returned for Regrooving
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