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Re: [cosmacelf] Re: Huge document set of 1802 info

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  • Lee Hart
    ... Bill, I was offended to find that you were distributing my work without permission. The information was *already* on-line, and easily found by any search
    Message 1 of 12 , May 8, 2013
      William Donnelly wrote:
      > Herb hosted a lot of Lee's stuff, so, unfortunately, much of the
      > Membership Card information is not included now. It would be too
      > difficult to try to go through and cherry pick. (assuming Lee is
      > also not against the idea, whatever parts were his)

      Bill, I was offended to find that you were distributing my work without
      permission. The information was *already* on-line, and easily found by
      any search engine. There was nothing to be gained by copying and
      redistributing it.

      And, there was much to be lost. It cheapens the work, obscures where it
      came from, and diverts away potential customers. You've put uncontrolled
      copies in circulation, so that now any corrections and updates can't be
      made in a controlled fashion.

      I'm no lawyer, but it almost certainly violated copyright laws as well.
      There are right ways, and wrong ways to do this. You chose the wrong way.

      Cease and desist from distributing any of my works immediately.

      --
      First they ignore you; then they mock you; then they fight you; then you
      win. -- Mahatma Gandhi
      --
      Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
    • thinkpast
      ... http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/8th.html That linked document, describes the details of how 8th was restored to use, and states copyrights and
      Message 2 of 12 , May 8, 2013
        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, Lee Hart <leeahart@...> wrote:
        >
        > Charles Richmond wrote:
        > > Bill, one of the items on Herb Johnson's list was "8th.zip". I
        > > thought this was a language that Lee Hart was freely distributing.
        > > How is it that Herb has a "copyright" on it???
        >
        > I wrote it, and have a printed listing, but no longer have a copy of the
        > source on disk. Herb Johnson was interested in it, so I sent him a
        > printed copy, and gave him permission to scan it and put it online. That
        > was Herb's work. He added value, and so he is entitled to control its
        > distribution.

        http://www.retrotechnology.com/memship/8th.html

        That linked document, describes the details of how 8th was restored to use, and states copyrights and implies terms of use. That document was written by me, copyrighted by me, and includes a copyright notice for Lee Hart's work.

        Donnelly copied that HTML document, and over ONE HUNDRED files and documents, from my Web site. I'm not going to list them all, or haggle here in cosmacelf over - every - single - one of them. That's not the purpose of this Yahoo group. Please go to my Web site, for any information about the documents and contents THERE.

        Thanks to Lee Hart for his support and description of why he values the work I've done - just as I value his work and how our collaboration, and the work of others, has benefited many people. All with permission and support from all involved. THAT, in the context of the COSMAC 1802, IS the purpose and process of this Yahoo group, to my understanding.

        Herb Johnson
        retrotechnology.com
      • joshbensadon
        This action has spiraled out of control and has turned the whole board into a flame war. I m not qualified to say who is right and wrong. However, I try to
        Message 3 of 12 , May 8, 2013
          This action has spiraled out of control and has turned the whole board into a flame war.

          I'm not qualified to say who is right and wrong. However, I try to understand both parties here.

          I know Herb works very hard to obtain permission for material on his site. Bill is also working to preserve as much information by copying.

          We all want to keep the truth about the past alive.

          If only Bill and Herb could walk a mile in each others shoes, they will see how each approach has offended the other.

          I sincerely wish for patience and peace so we can all enjoy the past.

          For peace to happen, we all must make small concessions and start focusing on the good. I believe we are all reasonable men here and can settle our differences if we talk to each other with our expectations and live by the old netiquette, "No offense intended, none taken"


          Regards,
          Josh
        • Andrew Wasson
          Nice way of putting it Josh. I ve been trying to find the words to convey the same message. I think that kind of sums it up from my point of view too. Andrew
          Message 4 of 12 , May 8, 2013
            Nice way of putting it Josh. I've been trying to find the words to convey the same message. 

            I think that kind of sums it up from my point of view too.

            Andrew







            On 2013-05-08, at 5:35 PM, "joshbensadon" <joshbensadon@...> wrote:

             

            This action has spiraled out of control and has turned the whole board into a flame war.

            I'm not qualified to say who is right and wrong. However, I try to understand both parties here.

            I know Herb works very hard to obtain permission for material on his site. Bill is also working to preserve as much information by copying.

            We all want to keep the truth about the past alive.

            If only Bill and Herb could walk a mile in each others shoes, they will see how each approach has offended the other.

            I sincerely wish for patience and peace so we can all enjoy the past.

            For peace to happen, we all must make small concessions and start focusing on the good. I believe we are all reasonable men here and can settle our differences if we talk to each other with our expectations and live by the old netiquette, "No offense intended, none taken"

            Regards,
            Josh


          • Doug Jackson
            Thanks Josh, Everything we do is all to easily forgotten - forever. Doug ... -- Doug Jackson VK1ZDJ http://www.dougswordclock.com/ -
            Message 5 of 12 , May 8, 2013
              Thanks Josh,
               
              Everything we do is all to easily forgotten - forever.
               
              Doug


               
              On Thu, May 9, 2013 at 10:42 AM, Andrew Wasson <awasson@...> wrote:
               

              Nice way of putting it Josh. I've been trying to find the words to convey the same message. 


              I think that kind of sums it up from my point of view too.

              Andrew







              On 2013-05-08, at 5:35 PM, "joshbensadon" <joshbensadon@...> wrote:

               

              This action has spiraled out of control and has turned the whole board into a flame war.

              I'm not qualified to say who is right and wrong. However, I try to understand both parties here.

              I know Herb works very hard to obtain permission for material on his site. Bill is also working to preserve as much information by copying.

              We all want to keep the truth about the past alive.

              If only Bill and Herb could walk a mile in each others shoes, they will see how each approach has offended the other.

              I sincerely wish for patience and peace so we can all enjoy the past.

              For peace to happen, we all must make small concessions and start focusing on the good. I believe we are all reasonable men here and can settle our differences if we talk to each other with our expectations and live by the old netiquette, "No offense intended, none taken"

              Regards,
              Josh





              --
              Doug Jackson
              VK1ZDJ
              http://www.vk1zdj.net -< My Amature Radio Activities
            • country_robot
              ... Hear, hear! Feelings seem to be running high, but totally out of proportion to the intrinsic importance of the topic. The actions of both parties are not
              Message 6 of 12 , May 8, 2013
                --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, Doug Jackson <doug@...> wrote:
                >
                > Thanks Josh,
                >
                > Everything we do is all to easily forgotten - forever.
                >
                > Doug

                Hear, hear! Feelings seem to be running high, but totally out of proportion to the intrinsic importance of the topic. The actions of both parties are not without flaw. A few polite, friendly, offline email exchanges would have prevented this blowup in the first place.

                A wise person knows when to humbly apologise. And an even wiser person knows to feel shame for having caused the need for such an apology in the first place.

                The interested parties can sort themselves out as to which (both?) sorts of wise person they want to be.

                Friendly cooperation is the only thing that will keep this group viable, or even relevant, and I intend to resign from the group if some sort of amicable accord is not established in the next few weeks. I urge other people to take the same stand.

                -Bobby
              • Dave Ruske
                ... Good man, Josh. I ve had a distracting couple of days, and I was disappointed to find this mess in my inbox tonight. To all those silent subscribers on the
                Message 7 of 12 , May 8, 2013
                  On May 8, 2013, at 7:35 PM, "joshbensadon" <joshbensadon@...> wrote:
                  > For peace to happen, we all must make small concessions and start focusing on the good. I believe we are all reasonable men here and can settle our differences if we talk to each other with our expectations and live by the old netiquette, "No offense intended, none taken"

                  Good man, Josh. I've had a distracting couple of days, and I was disappointed to find this mess in my inbox tonight. To all those silent subscribers on the list, please rest assured that this discussion will not continue in volume and tone.

                  Some of this may be my fault: perhaps I should have put together a FAQ of some sort about copyright years ago, but generally the group polices itself pretty well, and I really don't know any more about copyright than most people here.

                  The way I see it, Bill intended no harm, and was trying to perform a service for the community. I've personally tried to find information that disappeared from the web, and I think current copyright law does need some intelligent overhaul (I don't view the DMCA as particularly well thought out). I've also archived material for my personal use to keep from being bit by such disappearances; who among us hasn't?

                  That said, the law is the law, warts and all, and we're obliged to live within its limits, and occasionally lobby for change (insert EFF.org plug here). I'm fine with anyone archiving any content from cosmacelf.com for their personal use, and I believe anyone is within their fair use rights to do so. But much of the material on that site, such as Tom Pittman's "Short Course," RCA's 1800 series data sheets, Steve and Michael Gemeny's "Tale of Two Processors," Juergen Pintaske's "Design Ideas" book, and various photos from many contributors, is material I've been permitted to publish by the copyright holders. While I can (and will!) give someone permission to publish my original works from the website, I can't extend permission to republish the works of others, even though it's freely available.

                  I see good points --- and the best of intentions --- on both sides. Let's respect copyrights, and each other, and get back to discussing the technology we enjoy.

                  Dave
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