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The Last 1802 in (Outer) Space

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  • William Donnelly
    I was watching James May s Man Lab on BBCA and an idea hit me. In S2E3, they spread the ashes of a pet cat and budgie bird into space using a weather
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 30, 2013
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      I was watching "James May's Man Lab" on BBCA and an idea hit me.

      In S2E3, they 'spread' the ashes of a pet cat and budgie bird "into space"
      using a weather balloon. (partly as a contest, with one balloon using helium
      and the other using hydrogen, for speed and altitude winners)

      Along with model rocketry using small and BIG rockets, launching weather balloons
      is a hobby that some people do.
      They often contain cameras and GPS modules and sometimes radio transmitters, etc.

      So I was thinking you (we) could put "The Last 1802 in (Outer) Space" using a similar
      weather balloon. (if not "Outer Space" proper, 'the edge of Outer Space'?)

      via: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_balloon
      -----
      High-altitude balloons are unmanned balloons, usually filled with helium or hydrogen,
      that are released into the stratosphere, generally reaching between 60,000 to 120,000 feet
      (18 to 37 km). In 2002, a balloon named BU60-1 reached 53.0 km (173,900 ft).

      These balloons are launched into what is termed "near space"— the area of Earth's atmosphere
      where there is very little air, but where the remaining amount generates far too much drag
      for satellites to remain in orbit.
      -----
      via: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outer_space
      -----
      Boundary

      SpaceShipOne completed the first manned private spaceflight in 2004, reaching an altitude of 100.124 km (62.214 mi).

      There is no clear boundary between Earth's atmosphere and space, as the density of the atmosphere
      gradually decreases as the altitude increases. There are several standard boundary designations, namely:

      • The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale has established the Kármán line at an altitude of 100 km (62 mi)
      as a working definition for the boundary between aeronautics and astronautics. This is used because
      at an altitude of roughly 100 km (62 mi), as Theodore von Kármán calculated, a vehicle would have to travel
      faster than orbital velocity in order to derive sufficient aerodynamic lift from the atmosphere to support itself.
      • The United States designates people who travel above an altitude of 50 miles (80 km) as astronauts.
      • NASA's mission control uses 76 mi (122 km) as their re-entry altitude (termed the Entry Interface),
      which roughly marks the boundary where atmospheric drag becomes noticeable (depending on the
      ballistic coefficient of the vehicle), thus leading shuttles to switch from steering with thrusters to
      maneuvering with air surfaces.

      In 2009, scientists at the University of Calgary reported detailed measurements with an instrument called
      the Supra-Thermal Ion Imager (an instrument that measures the direction and speed of ions), which allowed
      them to establish a boundary at 118 km (73 mi) above Earth. The boundary represents the midpoint of a
      gradual transition over tens of kilometers from the relatively gentle winds of the Earth's atmosphere to the
      more violent flows of charged particles in space, which can reach speeds well over 268 m/s (600 mph).
      ----------

      In the show, they reached 28,194 m., 92,500 ft., 15.2 miles (Helium) and 30,352 m.,  99,580 ft., 16.3 miles (Hydrogen).

      So not really even the edge of Outer Space, much less Outer Space proper.
      But probably the best that could be done by amateurs at low cost. ("near-Space")
      Even the record of 53.0 km (173,900 ft., 28.6 miles) isn't really very close.
      Afaik, there is nothing else that goes higher that is "hobbyist".

      We couldn't even officially claim the making of a (non-human, non-animal) COSMACNAUT (50 miles, 80 km),
      although we could anyway, as per our own definition. (it's un'manned', anyway.... or IS it? G.I. Joe in Space! ;o)

      I wonder if you put some 'large' rockets on it, either model rocketry rockets (ESTES E12-8 Engines?
      or G80-10T Composite Motors), or something larger, how much additional altitude you could get beyond the balloon.
      That would be an interesting attitude issue (probably near-impossible), making sure the rocket was pointed in the
      right direction and stayed that way while firing. I don't know if they would even work in low-oxygen atmosphere.

      I suppose there's something actual that the 1802 could be doing on the trip rather than just sitting there.

      Could be an interesting project.

      – Bill

      The only way to actually get an 1802 in "Outer Space" would be on a trip to the ISS or on one of the
      private space agency rocket ships. Which probably wouldn't be undoable, but might be pretty hard
      to convince someone to do, especially as a "fun, hobby project". I wonder if they could "launch"
      a mini-space vehicle with an 1802 in it as short-term satellite until it burned up in the atmosphere?
      You couldn't propel it (space slingshot?), but maybe they could give it a push or something, just enough
      to get it away from them and send it on its way. Through it like a baseball during an EVA?
      There would probably be a heating issue. You might have to use a SOS 1802.
      That would be a pretty large project, and the "satellite" would have some weight to it. Maybe you could keep it
      under a pound. At who knows how much cost-per-pound (thousand$? ten$ of thousand$?),
      that would still be pretty expensive to pay for it.
      Probably your only real chance would be to convince NASA that it is an educational project and
      make the satellite look like a little Galileo spacecraft. That might have been more doable when the
      Space Shuttle was flying, and/or at the 2003 destruction into Jupiter, or the 20th anniversary in 2009,
      although the 25th anniversary will be in October 2014.

      You could just do it with a weather balloon and have it be an homage of sorts.

    • jdrose_8_bit
      That sounds like fun. The next time I am out at Black Rock Desert I plan to launch an 1802 MC computer in a model rocket. Probably have it polling
      Message 2 of 3 , May 1, 2013
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        That sounds like fun.

        The next time I am out at Black Rock Desert I plan to launch an 1802 MC computer in a model rocket. Probably have it polling accelerometer and altitude sensors; MMA6556KW and MS5607 perhaps. The countdown launcher itself will be 1802 powered.

        A balloon is not too expensive to launch. I think I have read of people doing it for under $300. Generally they contain an iPhone for telemetry and down video, a small digital camera for horizon video and some sort of novelty or experiment payload. I am fairly certain that GI Joe and other action figures have already been launched in balloons. What you could have is an 1802 MC computer in the foreground running the cylon LED program or such. And behind it the horizon and the expanse of space.

        Not sure if lofting a rocket launch platform on the balloon would get you that much more altitude for your 1802, perhaps only 2000 or 3000' more. Perhaps much less when considering the rocket is lifting a payload. Also keep in mind that the payload in hobby balloon launches is limited by the FAA to 64 ounces. The rocket alone would probably weigh more than that.

        You could pay to have your 1802 launched into orbit. A "piggyback" ride on a NLV costs around $10,000 a pound. You could have a solar powered 1802 picosatellite that transmits the URL http://www.cosmacelf.com/ every half an hour. Or whatever. Inject it into an orbit that will have it burn up on September 21, 2023.

        I figured you were in space when you can see the stars during daylight. I did not realize there were so many definitions of the start of space. Very interesting.

        Doing something to commemorate the 25th anniversary of the Galileo launch is a grand idea.


        --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, William Donnelly <william@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was watching "James May's Man Lab" on BBCA and an idea hit me.
        >
        > In S2E3, they 'spread' the ashes of a pet cat and budgie bird "into space"
        > using a weather balloon. (partly as a contest, with one balloon using helium
        > and the other using hydrogen, for speed and altitude winners)
        >
        > Along with model rocketry using small and BIG rockets, launching weather
        > balloons
        > is a hobby that some people do.
        > They often contain cameras and GPS modules and sometimes radio
        > transmitters, etc.
        >
        > So I was thinking you (we) could put "The Last 1802 in (Outer) Space"
        > using a similar
        > weather balloon. (if not "Outer Space" proper, 'the edge of Outer Space'?)
        >
      • Lee Hart
        ... I think the ham radio satellites are still using 1802 s. At least, some of theirs with 1802 s are still functioning. They get their satellites up by
        Message 3 of 3 , May 1, 2013
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          On 5/1/2013 1:34 AM, William Donnelly wrote:
          > So I was thinking you (we) could put "The Last 1802 in (Outer) Space"
          > using a similar
          > weather balloon. (if not "Outer Space" proper, 'the edge of Outer Space'?)

          I think the ham radio satellites are still using 1802's. At least, some
          of theirs with 1802's are still functioning.

          They get their satellites up by "hitchhiking" on someone else's rocket
          as ballast. The solid fuel rockets are not throttle-able, so they need
          to add ballast to bring the final launch weight up to the design limit.
          If you have a satellite that happens to weigh the right amount and fit
          in the space available (and have connections in the right places), you
          can get a free ride! :-)
          --
          Failure is only the opportunity to begin again more intelligently.
          -- Henry Ford
          --
          Lee A. Hart, http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs.htm
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