Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Android Elf, was Re: [cosmacelf] web banner

Expand Messages
  • Mark Graybill
    I never thought to have my wife try running it on one of the WebOS phones HP supplied her with. But then, she s not exactly enamored of them, and there s not
    Message 1 of 4 , Apr 15, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      I never thought to have my wife try running it on one of the WebOS phones HP supplied her with. But then, she's not exactly enamored of them, and there's not much sense when she's not likely to want to use it. They're like most name brand phones, they need phone service to  function even if all you want is wifi and apps without the phone, so snagging one of her spares wouldn't do me much good.

      I might look at building something on Android sometime, but I've got a few paying projects to complete first. Android is a lot more work to develop for than PalmOS was, mostly because of greater variation in the displays. You either need to build your interface to scale and rotate gracefully, or you need to develop custom graphics then scale them to several different resolutions, and build custom layouts for phones and tablets (two layouts for each, one portrait, one landscape. Then graphics scaled to 3 different sizes, minimum, preferably 5 sizes.)

      My present project is easy to program, but the graphics development has become 90% of the project.

      For those looking to give it a try, my advice is ease into it in baby steps, and learn to deal with Eclipse, and the Android mods to it. It pays off in a lot of saved work vs. command line tools.

      Also, get familiar with Java elsewhere first. Write some local apps on a regular computer. I can't imagine trying to learn Java, Eclipse, and Android's oddities all at once. Ugh. ;)

      My first Android app is up on the Play Store at present, but it's an even more niche interest product than an Elf emulator--a base 12 calculator. It's free, so enjoy:
      https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.acedev.dozcalc

      Starting with a prior knowledge of Java and plain-Jane Eclipse, writing this app took about 4 days. One day to write the version that got thrown away, one day to write the new code, one day to build the interface, one day to figure out how to package and sign the app and put it on Google Play.

      -Mark G.


      On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:43 PM, William Donnelly <william@...> wrote:
       

      That's, right. PDA not smart phone. Although Palm OS was used in a lot of devices.
      And in 2009, after Palm was purchased by HP, it became HPwebOS, then made open source.
      There was also something to do with Windows CE. Maybe later devices used that. (Pocket PC's?)

      I was never big on PDA's. I had an inexpensive one at some point, but I can't even remember
      what brand it was or anything. That must have been in the mid to late 1990's. It wasn't
      very powerful and you couldn't do much with it. Just held phone numbers and a calendar and
      that sort of thing. It might have synced with a PC.

      So what would you suggest to run TinyElf on? If we can get an old PDA. The last Palm PDA's
      had a color screen. Is there some minimal and maximal version it will run on?
      There isn't a lot of info on your site about that. Just a ZIP file to download.
      Maybe a Palm m500 series? A Palm m500, m505, m515? (OS 4.x; OS 5.x?)

      It looks like there MIGHT be Palm OS simulators for Windows.

      I didn't pay much attention to TinyElf because it runs on Palm OS and Macs.
      And I never looked at it because it's written in Forth. (which, as we all know, is 'evil' ;o)

      – Bill
       
      On 4/14/2013 10:02 PM, Dave Ruske wrote:
       
      On Apr 14, 2013, at 8:46 PM, William Donnelly <william@...> wrote:
      Anyway, a SimElf app would be cool. And I wanted to get in on the smart phone app craze,
      but it's not gonna happen. (lost a lot of potential income there) Someone wrote one for
      a phone already, didn't they? (sorry for the bad memory)

      I had one for Palm OS long ago, and it worked well enough on Palm-based phones; you can find everything from the screenshots to the binaries to the source (in Forth!) here:

      It was fun to write, but executed slowly. This group actually started as a tech support forum for that bit of freeware.

      Later I wrote TinyELF for OS X to learn Objective-C. I've had a few false starts on porting the core to an iOS version, but keeping up with the day job and increasing caregiver responsibilities has been a challenge over the last few years. Maybe when I retire…

      Dave
      __._,_


    • William Donnelly
      Why base 12? You don t explain it in your description there. Why not an option for A and B for your ? ( dek ) and ? ( el ) for 10 and 11? I did way too much
      Message 2 of 4 , Apr 15, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        Why base 12?

        You don't explain it in your description there.

        Why not an option for A and B for your ∂ ("dek") and ε ("el") for 10 and 11?

        I did way too much Java programming. I never cared for the language.
        It was probably colored by my having to use a third party library IDE system
        that separated the data layer, the logic layer, and the GUI layer in an MVC-like
        design and implementation and all that OO stuff. I forget the name of it.
        It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been a finished product, but it was in
        heavy development with little to no documentation and what was available
        was poor. They're probably out of business now.

        I also was prejudiced about Java because of the claim that it was the next new
        savior to us all and ultimate programming language, which was a joke.
        As has been shown over time. Almost every new language makes that claim
        at some point, but it was overdone by Java and its adherents.

        – Bill
         
         
        On 4/15/2013 9:54 AM, Mark Graybill wrote:
         
        I never thought to have my wife try running it on one of the WebOS phones HP supplied her with. But then, she's not exactly enamored of them, and there's not much sense when she's not likely to want to use it. They're like most name brand phones, they need phone service to  function even if all you want is wifi and apps without the phone, so snagging one of her spares wouldn't do me much good.

        I might look at building something on Android sometime, but I've got a few paying projects to complete first. Android is a lot more work to develop for than PalmOS was, mostly because of greater variation in the displays. You either need to build your interface to scale and rotate gracefully, or you need to develop custom graphics then scale them to several different resolutions, and build custom layouts for phones and tablets (two layouts for each, one portrait, one landscape. Then graphics scaled to 3 different sizes, minimum, preferably 5 sizes.)

        My present project is easy to program, but the graphics development has become 90% of the project.

        For those looking to give it a try, my advice is ease into it in baby steps, and learn to deal with Eclipse, and the Android mods to it. It pays off in a lot of saved work vs. command line tools.

        Also, get familiar with Java elsewhere first. Write some local apps on a regular computer. I can't imagine trying to learn Java, Eclipse, and Android's oddities all at once. Ugh. ;)

        My first Android app is up on the Play Store at present, but it's an even more niche interest product than an Elf emulator--a base 12 calculator. It's free, so enjoy:
        https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.acedev.dozcalc

        Starting with a prior knowledge of Java and plain-Jane Eclipse, writing this app took about 4 days. One day to write the version that got thrown away, one day to write the new code, one day to build the interface, one day to figure out how to package and sign the app and put it on Google Play.

        -Mark G.

      • Saundby
        ... A. Because I did a search and there were none. I d have a unique app. B. It would have limited popularity. I could go through the process of developing an
        Message 3 of 4 , Apr 15, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, William Donnelly <william@...> wrote:
          >
          > Why base 12?

          A. Because I did a search and there were none. I'd have a unique app.
          B. It would have limited popularity. I could go through the process of developing an app and putting it up for distribution without getting embroiled in customer support for a pathfinder app while developing something 'real'.
          C. Base 12 has a body of adherents. I often use it myself, when solving problems involving thirds and sixths (e.g. dice probabilities.) Many problems are easier to convert to base 12, solve, then convert back to decimal than solve all in base 10. Plus I like to encourage mental flexibility with math. Not having base changes in your bag of tricks for math is like not having multiplication because addition does the job OK.
          >
          > You don't explain it in your description there.
          >
          > Why not an option for A and B for your ? ("dek") and ? ("el") for 10 and 11?

          A and B are very nonstandard notation for base 12. I got as close to the most standard, Pitman notation, as I could with the Android fonts. The new steampunk calculator will use that notation when I launch it. It will do duodecimal/decimal conversion as well.
          >
          > I did way too much Java programming. I never cared for the language.
          > It was probably colored by my having to use a third party library IDE system
          > that separated the data layer, the logic layer, and the GUI layer in an
          > MVC-like
          > design and implementation and all that OO stuff. I forget the name of it.
          > It wouldn't have been so bad if it had been a finished product, but it
          > was in
          > heavy development with little to no documentation and what was available
          > was poor. They're probably out of business now.
          >
          > I also was prejudiced about Java because of the claim that it was the
          > next new
          > savior to us all and ultimate programming language, which was a joke.
          > As has been shown over time. Almost every new language makes that claim
          > at some point, but it was overdone by Java and its adherents.
          >
          > – Bill

          I started with command line Java and ignored the hype. It's easier for me to do general coding in than LISP, it has a garbage collector, unlike C++, has built in graphics and sound--I don't need to learn a new system for each OS I use--etc. You might want to check out http://beginwithjava.blogspot.com/

          There are other ways to program Android, too. It's closer to a real OS than the other 'locked in a box' systems, I feel. But most standard apps are Java/Android apps.

          -Mark
          >
          >
          > On 4/15/2013 9:54 AM, Mark Graybill wrote:
          > > I never thought to have my wife try running it on one of the WebOS
          > > phones HP supplied her with. But then, she's not exactly enamored of
          > > them, and there's not much sense when she's not likely to want to use
          > > it. They're like most name brand phones, they need phone service to
          > > function even if all you want is wifi and apps without the phone, so
          > > snagging one of her spares wouldn't do me much good.
          > >
          > > I might look at building something on Android sometime, but I've got a
          > > few paying projects to complete first. Android is a lot more work to
          > > develop for than PalmOS was, mostly because of greater variation in
          > > the displays. You either need to build your interface to scale and
          > > rotate gracefully, or you need to develop custom graphics then scale
          > > them to several different resolutions, and build custom layouts for
          > > phones and tablets (two layouts for each, one portrait, one landscape.
          > > Then graphics scaled to 3 different sizes, minimum, preferably 5 sizes.)
          > >
          > > My present project is easy to program, but the graphics development
          > > has become 90% of the project.
          > >
          > > For those looking to give it a try, my advice is ease into it in baby
          > > steps, and learn to deal with Eclipse, and the Android mods to it. It
          > > pays off in a lot of saved work vs. command line tools.
          > >
          > > Also, get familiar with Java elsewhere first. Write some local apps on
          > > a regular computer. I can't imagine trying to learn Java, Eclipse, and
          > > Android's oddities all at once. Ugh. ;)
          > >
          > > My first Android app is up on the Play Store at present, but it's an
          > > even more niche interest product than an Elf emulator--a base 12
          > > calculator. It's free, so enjoy:
          > > https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.acedev.dozcalc
          > >
          > > Starting with a prior knowledge of Java and plain-Jane Eclipse,
          > > writing this app took about 4 days. One day to write the version that
          > > got thrown away, one day to write the new code, one day to build the
          > > interface, one day to figure out how to package and sign the app and
          > > put it on Google Play.
          > >
          > > -Mark G.
          >
        • jdrose_8_bit
          That is what I like most about Java, automatic garbage collection. You need to que it well or it will affect performance but that can be juggled appropriately
          Message 4 of 4 , Apr 17, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            That is what I like most about Java, automatic garbage collection. You need to que it well or it will affect performance but that can be juggled appropriately with practice.

            Also, the near universal platform compatibility of Java is hard to beat.

            There is a Linux version of EMMA02. Is it possible to build a touchscreen version of EMMA02 for Android automatically or would that require a more detailed conversion.


            >
            > I started with command line Java and ignored the hype. It's easier for me to do general coding in than LISP, it has a garbage collector, unlike C++, has built in graphics and sound--I don't need to learn a new system for each OS I use--etc. You might want to check out http://beginwithjava.blogspot.com/
            >
            > There are other ways to program Android, too. It's closer to a real OS than the other 'locked in a box' systems, I feel. But most standard apps are Java/Android apps.
            >
            > -Mark
            >
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.