Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Olduino ethernet success

Expand Messages
  • bill rowe
    This afternoon I got the olduino to return pings from my laptop. The unimpressive proof is in the dos window image and you can see my experimental setup in
    Message 1 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
    This afternoon I got the olduino to return pings from my laptop.  The unimpressive proof is in the dos window image and you can see my experimental setup in the second image.  The thing on the left of the breadboard is the ethernet access module.  The arduino beside it is just supplying 3.3v power.  The only code being executed is in the 1802, honest.

    Ethernet dates from the early 1970s like the 1802 so, assuming mine is the first 1802 to get on the wire, it's kind of a "separated at birth" reunion.   The ping utility dates from the mid 80's.  The author's story http://www.webcitation.org/5saCKBpgH is cute.

    Among other things, this has been a great test of the compiler.  I've run thousands and thousands of lines of other people's code through it.  The only problem that turned up was related to declaring empty storage blocks that spanned 1802 pages and I think that was more my loader than anything else.  I cured it by having the compiler tell the assembler to emit 0's for unused locations rather than just skipping the addresses.  I'm sure no one wants to replicate this but if anyone wants to see the code, let me know.  I think it's around 1400 lines of C code which becomes 4,000 lines of macro-assembler and turns into 17,000 bytes of 1802 code.

    We're moving again tomorrow and I don't know if the new place will have as convenient a network to play with as this one does.  My extended goal is to implement a text-only web browser on the 1802 with display on one of those watch lcd's so it can be independent of the laptop.

    Oh, by the way the ethernet module uses TWO HUNDRED milli-amps when it's running.  That's how we rolled in 1973!

    http://olduino.wordpress.com/

  • Andrew Wasson
    That is fantastic! I particularly like the rubber restraining devices you have on the Arduino and the network module... LOL! Anyway, I think this is pretty
    Message 2 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      That is fantastic! 

      I particularly like the rubber restraining devices you have on the Arduino and the network module... LOL!

      Anyway, I think this is pretty damned cool. Your Olduino stuff is really stretching the boundaries of what most people think an 1802 can do. 

      * We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with a similar setup... That was 1981 and it was the last time I personally saw an 1802 connected to any sort of network. 

      Andrew



      On 2013-02-28, at 1:12 PM, bill rowe wrote:

       

      This afternoon I got the olduino to return pings from my laptop.  The unimpressive proof is in the dos window image and you can see my experimental setup in the second image.  The thing on the left of the breadboard is the ethernet access module.  The arduino beside it is just supplying 3.3v power.  The only code being executed is in the 1802, honest.

      Ethernet dates from the early 1970s like the 1802 so, assuming mine is the first 1802 to get on the wire, it's kind of a "separated at birth" reunion.   The ping utility dates from the mid 80's.  The author's story http://www.webcitation.org/5saCKBpgH is cute.

      Among other things, this has been a great test of the compiler.  I've run thousands and thousands of lines of other people's code through it.  The only problem that turned up was related to declaring empty storage blocks that spanned 1802 pages and I think that was more my loader than anything else.  I cured it by having the compiler tell the assembler to emit 0's for unused locations rather than just skipping the addresses.  I'm sure no one wants to replicate this but if anyone wants to see the code, let me know.  I think it's around 1400 lines of C code which becomes 4,000 lines of macro-assembler and turns into 17,000 bytes of 1802 code.

      We're moving again tomorrow and I don't know if the new place will have as convenient a network to play with as this one does.  My extended goal is to implement a text-only web browser on the 1802 with display on one of those watch lcd's so it can be independent of the laptop.

      Oh, by the way the ethernet module uses TWO HUNDRED milli-amps when it's running.  That's how we rolled in 1973!





    • bill rowe
      * We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with
      Message 3 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        "* We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with a similar setup... That was 1981 and it was the last time I personally saw an 1802 connected to any sort of network."

        wow andrew, I did not know that.  what could it do when connected?


        To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
        From: awasson@...
        Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:23:35 -0800
        Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Olduino ethernet success

         

        That is fantastic! 

        I particularly like the rubber restraining devices you have on the Arduino and the network module... LOL!

        Anyway, I think this is pretty damned cool. Your Olduino stuff is really stretching the boundaries of what most people think an 1802 can do. 

        * We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with a similar setup... That was 1981 and it was the last time I personally saw an 1802 connected to any sort of network. 

        Andrew



        On 2013-02-28, at 1:12 PM, bill rowe wrote:

         

        This afternoon I got the olduino to return pings from my laptop.  The unimpressive proof is in the dos window image and you can see my experimental setup in the second image.  The thing on the left of the breadboard is the ethernet access module.  The arduino beside it is just supplying 3.3v power.  The only code being executed is in the 1802, honest.

        Ethernet dates from the early 1970s like the 1802 so, assuming mine is the first 1802 to get on the wire, it's kind of a "separated at birth" reunion.   The ping utility dates from the mid 80's.  The author's story http://www.webcitation.org/5saCKBpgH is cute.

        Among other things, this has been a great test of the compiler.  I've run thousands and thousands of lines of other people's code through it.  The only problem that turned up was related to declaring empty storage blocks that spanned 1802 pages and I think that was more my loader than anything else.  I cured it by having the compiler tell the assembler to emit 0's for unused locations rather than just skipping the addresses.  I'm sure no one wants to replicate this but if anyone wants to see the code, let me know.  I think it's around 1400 lines of C code which becomes 4,000 lines of macro-assembler and turns into 17,000 bytes of 1802 code.

        We're moving again tomorrow and I don't know if the new place will have as convenient a network to play with as this one does.  My extended goal is to implement a text-only web browser on the 1802 with display on one of those watch lcd's so it can be independent of the laptop.

        Oh, by the way the ethernet module uses TWO HUNDRED milli-amps when it's running.  That's how we rolled in 1973!






      • Andrew Wasson
        Well, we had a proper terminal and ascii keyboard hooked up to it so we could have text based conversations with whoever we were connected to. It was very much
        Message 4 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
        • 0 Attachment
          Well, we had a proper terminal and ascii keyboard hooked up to it so we could have text based conversations with whoever we were connected to. It was very much like the BBS systems that preceded the visual web in the early 90's. 

          Andrew



          On 2013-02-28, at 3:48 PM, bill rowe wrote:

           

          "* We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with a similar setup... That was 1981 and it was the last time I personally saw an 1802 connected to any sort of network."

          wow andrew, I did not know that.  what could it do when connected?


          To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
          From: awasson@...
          Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2013 15:23:35 -0800
          Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Olduino ethernet success

           

          That is fantastic! 

          I particularly like the rubber restraining devices you have on the Arduino and the network module... LOL!

          Anyway, I think this is pretty damned cool. Your Olduino stuff is really stretching the boundaries of what most people think an 1802 can do. 

          * We had an expanded Netronics ELF II in my highschool with a modem and I was one of the fortunate few who got to use it to connect to some other school with a similar setup... That was 1981 and it was the last time I personally saw an 1802 connected to any sort of network. 

          Andrew



          On 2013-02-28, at 1:12 PM, bill rowe wrote:

           

          This afternoon I got the olduino to return pings from my laptop.  The unimpressive proof is in the dos window image and you can see my experimental setup in the second image.  The thing on the left of the breadboard is the ethernet access module.  The arduino beside it is just supplying 3.3v power.  The only code being executed is in the 1802, honest.

          Ethernet dates from the early 1970s like the 1802 so, assuming mine is the first 1802 to get on the wire, it's kind of a "separated at birth" reunion.   The ping utility dates from the mid 80's.  The author's story http://www.webcitation.org/5saCKBpgH is cute.

          Among other things, this has been a great test of the compiler.  I've run thousands and thousands of lines of other people's code through it.  The only problem that turned up was related to declaring empty storage blocks that spanned 1802 pages and I think that was more my loader than anything else.  I cured it by having the compiler tell the assembler to emit 0's for unused locations rather than just skipping the addresses.  I'm sure no one wants to replicate this but if anyone wants to see the code, let me know.  I think it's around 1400 lines of C code which becomes 4,000 lines of macro-assembler and turns into 17,000 bytes of 1802 code.

          We're moving again tomorrow and I don't know if the new place will have as convenient a network to play with as this one does.  My extended goal is to implement a text-only web browser on the 1802 with display on one of those watch lcd's so it can be independent of the laptop.

          Oh, by the way the ethernet module uses TWO HUNDRED milli-amps when it's running.  That's how we rolled in 1973!









        • David W. Schultz
          1,400 lines is a lot of code so it sounds like your Ethernet interface is pretty low level and you are having to provide the code for TCP and even IP. That is
          Message 5 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
          • 0 Attachment
            1,400 lines is a lot of code so it sounds like your Ethernet interface
            is pretty low level and you are having to provide the code for TCP and
            even IP. That is a lot of work. I picked up a Wiznet W5100 based module
            a year ago with the intent of connecting it to an 1802 and it has built
            in protocol stacks so not quite so much code is required.

            One of my favorite books about the Internet is "The Elements of
            Networking Style" by M.A. Padlipski. A constructively snotty little book
            from back in the days when the ISORM was considered by Very Serious
            People to be a viable alternative to ARPANET.

            His research notes are also very interesting:
            http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/padlip.html

            --
            David W. Schultz
            http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
            Returned for Regrooving
          • bill rowe
            I thought the enc thingie was doing much the same as the wiznet does. It manages the ethernet for collisions i guess and you set its registers to limit what
            Message 6 of 8 , Feb 28, 2013
            • 0 Attachment
              I thought the enc thingie was doing much the same as the wiznet does. It manages the ethernet for collisions i guess and you set its registers to limit what packets it takes in. I would say it handles all the physical layer and it understands the packets enough to filter them on mac and ip address. It won't do anything like respond to an arp request.

              So you have to look at the packet header and body and decide whether you need to respond then build an outgoing packet and write it into the buffer and tell it to send it. There's a lot of control code moving stuff to and from the module and decoding the packets. Also, I'm using code that i abstracted from c++ libraries with more capabilities than i'm using so it's not super-compact.

              Sent from my iPhone

              On 2013-02-28, at 7:35 PM, "David W. Schultz" <david.schultz@...> wrote:

               

              1,400 lines is a lot of code so it sounds like your Ethernet interface
              is pretty low level and you are having to provide the code for TCP and
              even IP. That is a lot of work. I picked up a Wiznet W5100 based module
              a year ago with the intent of connecting it to an 1802 and it has built
              in protocol stacks so not quite so much code is required.

              One of my favorite books about the Internet is "The Elements of
              Networking Style" by M.A. Padlipski. A constructively snotty little book
              from back in the days when the ISORM was considered by Very Serious
              People to be a viable alternative to ARPANET.

              His research notes are also very interesting:
              http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/jhb/whisky/padlip.html

              --
              David W. Schultz
              http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
              Returned for Regrooving

            • David W. Schultz
              ... The W5100 takes care of many details with built in IP, TCP, and UDP. I haven t written any code for it yet but I did Google up an example:
              Message 7 of 8 , Mar 1 4:27 PM
              • 0 Attachment
                On 02/28/2013 07:04 PM, bill rowe wrote:
                >
                >
                > I thought the enc thingie was doing much the same as the wiznet does. It
                > manages the ethernet for collisions i guess and you set its registers to
                > limit what packets it takes in. I would say it handles all the physical
                > layer and it understands the packets enough to filter them on mac and ip
                > address. It won't do anything like respond to an arp request.

                The W5100 takes care of many details with built in IP, TCP, and UDP. I
                haven't written any code for it yet but I did Google up an example:

                http://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/w5100_library.html

                One thing I liked about it is it has a memory mapped interface (32K)
                that would be a lot faster on an 1802 than serial.

                --
                David W. Schultz
                http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
                Returned for Regrooving
              • bill rowe
                you re right david, the wiznet seems to do a lot more. I went with the module I chose because it was $10 and the smaller form factor seemed like it would be
                Message 8 of 8 , Mar 1 4:35 PM
                • 0 Attachment
                  you're right david, the wiznet seems to do a lot more.  I went with the module I chose because it was $10 and the smaller form factor seemed like it would be easier to adapt to the olduino.  I am a big fan of the spi serial bus so i was happy the enc supported that.  In the end it was a gratifyingly hack-y thing to do and i don't regret my choice(much).  I'll keep plugging at this thing til I hit a wall.  If you get something going with the wiznet maybe we can link them up.


                  To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
                  From: david.schultz@...
                  Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 18:27:14 -0600
                  Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Olduino ethernet success

                   
                  On 02/28/2013 07:04 PM, bill rowe wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > I thought the enc thingie was doing much the same as the wiznet does. It
                  > manages the ethernet for collisions i guess and you set its registers to
                  > limit what packets it takes in. I would say it handles all the physical
                  > layer and it understands the packets enough to filter them on mac and ip
                  > address. It won't do anything like respond to an arp request.

                  The W5100 takes care of many details with built in IP, TCP, and UDP. I
                  haven't written any code for it yet but I did Google up an example:

                  http://www.seanet.com/~karllunt/w5100_library.html

                  One thing I liked about it is it has a memory mapped interface (32K)
                  that would be a lot faster on an 1802 than serial.

                  --
                  David W. Schultz
                  http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
                  Returned for Regrooving


                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.