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RE: [cosmacelf] Re: Hello esteemed COSMAC travelers

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  • bill rowe
    Ted s compiler is wonderful if you re careful. I ve been able to translate bunches of things from arduino to use on the membership card. For
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 24, 2012
      Ted's compiler is wonderful if you're careful. I've been able to translate bunches of things from arduino to use on the membership card. For examplehttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/message/11206 You do have to be careful not to confuse the compiler and the generated code often needs hand crafting at the assembler level to get acceptable speed for some things. If I had to write something complicated for the 1802 now though, there's no question I would use it. I also have functions figured out and optimized for SPI and windows I/O. If you search this forum for olduino you can see other examples. I would like a better compiler though, more range of functions, more robust parsing, and better optimization. Ted did the compiler as a learning experience some time ago and i don't think he wants to put a lot more effort into it or share the source. SDCC is one of a few options to target the 1802. It handles full C and it has a good optimizer. I'm basing my work on it because it has a Z80 target which is an 8 bit micro which I have some famuiliarity with. I have a jerry-rigged assembly now that can generate and optimize code for the 1802. Search the forum for sdcc for more info and I'll post a progress report this week. I'm wondering if we would set up a separate list for people interested in the compiler because a lot of members won't be. The sourceforge project is for sure alive and well. http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

      To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com
      From: ymail.com no_reply@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 00:54:27 +0000
      Subject: [cosmacelf] Re: Hello esteemed COSMAC travelers


























      I ran you emulator!

      Sweet! Amazing that I can load basic and do a Hello World!

      I posted a pic in a photo bin I names Memphis... you

      can see it when it gets approved.



      Did you release source code?



      Is there a good compiler C system for the 1802 already or

      what is the charm of the SDCC?

      I saw something on SourceForge but it seems to be taken down

      now. I just might want to contribute.



      --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, bill rowe <bill_rowe_ottawa@...> wrote:

      >

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      > Ted Rossin's C compiler for the 1802 is excellent fun if a bit limited.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/files/C%20Compiler/

      > I am poking at re-targetting the SDCC C compiler for the 1802 - this would be an excellent application of your C skills!

      > There are a bunch of emulators, look in the file section. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/files/Simulators/ My own visible elf emulator has recently been given a windows installer update courtesy of a member windows sophisticate.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cosmacelf/message/11366

      >

      > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com

      > From: jehall1442596@...

      > Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2012 08:53:46 -0700

      > Subject: Re: [cosmacelf] Hello esteemed COSMAC travelers

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      > Hello:

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      > There is always the Parallax Propeller for your C language skills ?

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      > JIM

      >

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      >

      > ________________________________

      >

      > From: Douglas <yahoo@...>

      >

      > To: cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com

      >

      > Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 2:44 AM

      >

      > Subject: [cosmacelf] Hello esteemed COSMAC travelers

      >

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      > For a short time I built and beheld a Quest Super Elf

      >

      > for the purpose of analog synth device control. Before MIDI.

      >

      > But starved for information and ideas and comrades I got whisked away

      >

      > to FORTRAN on Dec PDP11 punch cards & after proving myself to DEC20 printer terminals then finally VT100 interactive terminals.

      >

      > In private a commandeered a friend's Vic20 for many nights writing

      >

      > a nifty univeral number base converter that got me a good grade.

      >

      > After school, it was on to C64's and PCs.

      >

      >

      >

      > I got narrowly focused. The Super Elf was given away.

      >

      > Imbedded products w/ 6502 and 68000 projects became the pro work

      >

      > cross compiled in C on PC desktops.

      >

      > While I dabbled at home on C64.

      >

      >

      >

      > So I realized how far I've come from the Elf pails in how narrow

      >

      > my system focus became. I missed all the really rather interesting

      >

      > developements in the legacy 8bit world, in the U.S. and abroad.

      >

      > I was completely ignorant about how the commodores, TRS-80s, Apples,

      >

      > Macs and AMigas were in their various niches. Likewise, how

      >

      > these systems remain significant with even new niche hardware developments!

      >

      >

      >

      > And what I didn't know about the first one... the 1802. I had

      >

      > little appreciation of its significance. I had no access to information back then to know what was going on.

      >

      >

      >

      > So I look back with asto nishment. And I feel I missed a lot of

      >

      > rich possibilities. You who have been involved, kept the faith,

      >

      > have done well.

      >

      >

      >

      > So here I am, looking over this old first chip. I kinda want a running Elf again. Maybe a SuperElf maybe something else. Suggestions welcome.

      >

      >

      >

      > If there is some unfinished work I'd like to try to help out.

      >

      > I was big big into C. Wrote lg embedded C systems, 50K lines.

      >

      > Wrote a multitasking bare bone kernal for the 68000.

      >

      >

      >

      > I'm checking out the emulators now to play around. Will probably gather C tools and start playing. In the meantime catch up on the posts here to get up to speed with the group.

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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Lee Hart
      ... My think the Membership Card is the only complete Elf currently available. See . You can of course build one
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 25, 2012
        techtalklive@... wrote:
        > Thanks for the suggestion on a modern elf.

        My think the Membership Card is the only complete Elf currently
        available. See <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/MembershipCard.htm>.

        You can of course build one from scratch. Many have built them from the
        original Popular Electronics articles
        <http://www.incolor.com/bill_r/elf/html/elf-1-33.htm>.

        I think Spare Time Gizmos is out of Elf2k kits and boards, but all the
        info is on the web
        <http://www.sparetimegizmos.com/wdoc/index.php?title=Elf_2000> to build
        one (PCB layout files, PEEL programming, etc.)

        1802 computers also turn up for sale on eBay etc. or someone here may
        have one to sell.

        The simplest possible 1802 computer is probably my blinkin-light
        circuit. Nothing but an 1802 and some LEDs! :-) Here's the schematic
        (set your email software to display it with a fixed width font, like
        Courier):

        on-off switch _________________ LEDs
        _________/__________|40 VDD MA7 32|______|\|_______
        | |___|16 VCC | |/| |_______
        | |___| 2 /WAIT | _______|/|___| |
        __|__+ |___| 3 /CLR MA6 31|__| |\| |
        ___ 1.5v AA |___|36 /INT | |___|\|_______ |
        | - battery |___|37 /DMA-IN | |/| |_____ |
        | |___|38 /DMA-OUT | _______|/|___| | |
        __|__+ 1.5v AA | | MA5 30|__| |\| | |
        ___ battery |___| 9 BUS6 | |___|\|_______ | |
        | - | | | |/| |___ | |
        | 100k > | | _______|/|___| | | |
        | resistor > | MA4 29|__| |\| | | |
        | > | | |___|\|_______ | | |
        | ____________|___| 1 CLOCK | |/| |_ | | |
        | | | | | _______|/|___| | | | |
        | | > 4.7meg | SC0 6 |__| |\| | | | |
        | | > resistor | | |___|\|_______ | | | |
        | c \| > | | |/| | | | | |
        | |___|____||____|39 /XTAL SC1 5 |________________| | | | |
        | | b || | MA3 28|__________________| | | |
        | e /| 0.01uf | MA2 27|____________________| | |
        | | capacitor | MA1 26|______________________| |
        |___|________________|20 VSS MA0 25|________________________|
        NPN transistor |_________________|
        2N2222 or equiv.

        --
        Ring the bells that still can ring
        Forget your perfect offering
        There is a crack in everything
        That's how the light gets in.
        -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
        --
        Lee A. Hart http://www.sunrise-ev.com/LeesEVs leeahart@...
      • urrossum@att.net
        ... Lee s Membership Card is great! Very well designed, with clear and well-written instructions, and a completely usable ELF when it s finished. The price
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 25, 2012
          > techtalklive@... wrote:
          > > Thanks for the suggestion on a modern elf.
          >
          > My think the Membership Card is the only complete Elf currently
          > available. See <http://www.sunrise-ev.com/MembershipCard.htm>.

          Lee's "Membership Card" is great! Very well designed, with clear and well-written instructions, and a completely usable ELF when it's finished. The price is very reasonable, too (make sure you spring for the optional front panel) - I spent more on my Neutronics ELF back in the late '70s. Plus, it fits in an Altoids tin! Honestly, I can't recommend it enough.
          ~~
          Mark Moulding
        • eight_bit_jdrose
          That has been my goal since I learned of the 1802 this year. Own an 1802 computer and learn how to program it in C. The only two languages I know currently are
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 29, 2012
            That has been my goal since I learned of the 1802 this year. Own an 1802 computer and learn how to program it in C. The only two languages I know currently are my childhoood BASIC skills and I am really good at 6502 assembly language. Experience is writing games for the Atari 2600.

            Learning a higher level language seems like a good thing to do. I could eventually use C to program modern microcontrollers. That is my ultimate goal I think.

            Right now I am using the Elf 2K emulator in Emma but eventually hope to have a real Elf 2K or a Comx. I have a 1802 MC kit that I am going to build this. That will be my first real hardware 1802 computer.

            Good luck in your pursuits. The 1802 is probably the most interesting 8 bit microprocessor. I wish someone would develop a modern microcontroller built on it.

            --- In cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas" <yahoo@...> wrote:
            >
            > For a short time I built and beheld a Quest Super Elf
            > for the purpose of analog synth device control. Before MIDI.
            > But starved for information and ideas and comrades I got whisked away
            > to FORTRAN on Dec PDP11 punch cards & after proving myself to DEC20 printer terminals then finally VT100 interactive terminals.
            > In private a commandeered a friend's Vic20 for many nights writing
            > a nifty univeral number base converter that got me a good grade.
            > After school, it was on to C64's and PCs.
            >
            > I got narrowly focused. The Super Elf was given away.
            > Imbedded products w/ 6502 and 68000 projects became the pro work
            > cross compiled in C on PC desktops.
            > While I dabbled at home on C64.
            >
            > So I realized how far I've come from the Elf pails in how narrow
            > my system focus became. I missed all the really rather interesting
            > developements in the legacy 8bit world, in the U.S. and abroad.
            > I was completely ignorant about how the commodores, TRS-80s, Apples,
            > Macs and AMigas were in their various niches. Likewise, how
            > these systems remain significant with even new niche hardware developments!
            >
            > And what I didn't know about the first one... the 1802. I had
            > little appreciation of its significance. I had no access to information back then to know what was going on.
            >
            > So I look back with asto nishment. And I feel I missed a lot of
            > rich possibilities. You who have been involved, kept the faith,
            > have done well.
            >
            > So here I am, looking over this old first chip. I kinda want a running Elf again. Maybe a SuperElf maybe something else. Suggestions welcome.
            >
            > If there is some unfinished work I'd like to try to help out.
            > I was big big into C. Wrote lg embedded C systems, 50K lines.
            > Wrote a multitasking bare bone kernal for the 68000.
            >
            > I'm checking out the emulators now to play around. Will probably gather C tools and start playing. In the meantime catch up on the posts here to get up to speed with the group.
            >
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