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Re: [cosmacelf] Re: 4013 Usage on New Elf - Latch, etc. -- Yea, the Golden Age

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  • Mark Graybill
    ... From: sbirdasn To: Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 3:03 AM Subject: [cosmacelf] Re: 4013 Usage on New Elf
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 12, 2003
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      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "sbirdasn" <sbirdasn@...>
      To: <cosmacelf@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 3:03 AM
      Subject: [cosmacelf] Re: 4013 Usage on New Elf - Latch, etc. -- Yea, the
      Golden Age


      > Lee,
      >
      > Yep, as long as the system stays *pure* in the 4000 series vanilla
      > CMOS. I would be a bit worried once the system gets some HCMOS parts
      > like modern SRAM's, or the ELF style decoded hex displays. Then I
      > would be a bit worried about using an unregulated four-cell pack. One
      > could make it a three cell alkaline pack, and assume that the system
      > would be a 3-4.5V system. Most modern SRAM's will work fine at lower
      > voltages if the speed is reasonable. And data retention is often
      > spec'ed at <= 2V if I'm not mistaken. Then, even when the three cell
      > pack is fresh and running a bit "hot" for voltage, there's no worries
      > about killing those modern HCMOS chips with their thin gate
      > insulation's.



      >
      > You got that right about the Golden Age of Electronics. Hear, Hear!
      Ditto, but I'm not giving it up without a fight. Maybe its time to form a
      nucleus for an amateur chip-fab hobby to support the rest of the hobby?

      > Especially when companies like Nintendo use such extortionist
      > pricing/licensing for their game development tools.
      Yes, and in some areas that trend is only getting worse. Witness the costs
      of current PLD tools and licensing arrangements for IP. Not to mention the
      compact removable storage stuff.
      >
      > Yes, the robot thing is good. Sadly, you pointed out that most stuff
      > that might be doable has a commercial version. Most schools will
      > probably turn to the Stamp-based robots that are pre-cooked.

      In addition to the kids who'll be starting in on Elfs soon, I have two who
      are going the robotics route. They were disappointed when I insisted that
      rev 1 use standard logic for controls, but since them I showed them my old
      robotics books where they use discrete components for controls they're not
      grumbling. Now that they're starting to see some of what they can do with
      just a few gates, it's gotten to be fun for them.

      >
      > It's just too easy for school administrators to go that route since
      > the alternative requires a really dedicated teaching staff that
      > really wants to maximize the learning of the students.

      Yup.
      >
      > All of us *know* that the kids would learn 5-10 times as much if they
      > get to do the down-and-dirty under-the-hood and take the "build it
      > yourself" route.

      Absolutely.
      >
      > But that takes a real commitment from the teachers, and support from
      > the administration. That's hard to do these days. There are some that
      > will, but sadly, most schools can not or will not.

      I'm working with homeschool kids, who have a heck of a time getting good lab
      and science courses at all. It's also why I still have a class in summer.
      Some families do year-round school like we do in our family, and I try to
      reward the kids by letting them do a larger project during the summer.

      >
      > So, does that mean that Mark is one of those "good guys"? It sounds
      > like it. Hurray! Go for it.

      I'm trying. This hobby's not going to peter out if I can help it. Grrr. ;)

      -Mark G.
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