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Corn is the low cost energy

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  • Cornstoves
    Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn? Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any competition. Any monopoly can do that without help.
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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      Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
      Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any competition.
      Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.

      Deregulated and regulated Local electrical utilities ratchet
      electrical prices in one location at a time to prevent mass
      rebellion. Gradual utility buy-outs are quickly developing an
      electrical monopoly similiar to Big Oil except foreign funds are
      investing in local utilities.

      Electrical prices in the US range from $0.02/KwH in Washington State
      to $0.34/KwH, time of day rated in Washington, DC. and San Fran,
      Calif. Ga Pwr has had time-of-day and max-use-rate based rates for
      decades. TVA prices range from $0.075/KwH to $0.15/Kwh, depending on
      location and time-of-day in the seven state valley. TVA recently
      implemented a "fuel escalation clause" which allows TVA rates to
      increase without further review or challenge by anyone. Federal
      subsidies to TVA accrue annually and normally offset TVA cost of
      community development projects. AEP rates vary from $0.055/Kwh to
      $0.17/KwH, location dependent relative to coal mine location and
      local tax subsidies. All utilities and Big oil benefit from tax
      revenue and political structure.

      Big oil ratchets prices everywhere at the same time with no
      challenge - well, er, except for corn ethanol. Notice below how Big
      Oil, with concerned for the low cost of corn energy, is quickly
      squeezing out corn ethanol.

      In 2005/06, operational dry mill corn ethanol plants had a net profit
      of $1.56 per gallon with a volume large enough to pay off the initial
      plant construction cost in two years. Local farmers had first choice
      to invest in corn ethanol refineries. Roughly 100 corn ethanol
      refineries were constructed in one year and another 100 scheduled to
      come on line within 3 years. Big Oil has built no new refineries in
      over 20 years. Did low Big Oil profits prevented the investment!!!

      Corn ethanol avg selling price, Omaha, Neb
      $2.51 /gal in 2005/06
      $2.22 /gal in 2006/07
      $1.84 /gal Dec 2006 futures, Chicago Board of Trade

      Corn Ethanol Refinery Net Profit
      $0.95/gal corn ethanol production cost
      $1.56/gal in 2005/06 Net Profit
      $1.17/gal in 2006/07 Net Profit
      $0.79/gal in 2007/08 Net Profit

      Corn ethanol drives down the cost of gasoline, food, transportation,
      energy. Although corn prices temporarily gained, note that
      $2/bu corn competes with $2/gal gasoline
      $3/bu corn competes with $3/gal gasoline
      $4/bu for corn when gasoline reaches $4/gal is a bargin.
      Corn stoves are about twice as efficient as corn ethanol
      Corn fuel for corn stoves has no waste or residue left over, no
      refinery cost, no transportation cost from farm to refinery to gas
      pump.

      What would the price of gasoline be at the pump
      if there were no corn ethanol competition?
      Corn stove enthuiasist should not hesitate to temporarily pay corn
      farms an extra cent or two per gallon for corn. Remember how much the
      exta cost of corn saves you when you fill up at the gasoline pump.

      Some report paying $6/bu for corn to save big time on the electric
      and gas bill.
    • Ken Meinken
      ... And big corn doesn t have government help? Corn/ethanol is one of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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        Cornstoves wrote:
        > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
        > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any competition.
        > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.

        <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is one
        of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
      • yellowcorvette4
        Ken, Only half the $1/gal tax credit for diesel, The government blend tax credit of 51 cents/gallon through 2010 for 6 billion gallons corn ethanol this year
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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          Ken, Only half the $1/gal tax credit for diesel, The government blend
          tax credit of 51 cents/gallon through 2010 for 6 billion gallons corn
          ethanol this year and 12 billion gallons each future year is
          projected from newly constructed EPA approved corn ethanol
          refineries. Thanks to Congress, none of the twenty year Old Big Oil
          refineries need meet the New Source EPA rules.
          The $0.46/gal tariff for Brazillian corn ethanol imported into the US
          is near equal the 51C/gal tax credit.
          In any event, corn squeezings cost less than oil seeping outta
          ground. In all events, whole kernel shelled corn cost less than any
          other existing energy source.


          --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
          >
          > Cornstoves wrote:
          > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
          > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
          competition.
          > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government
          help.
          >
          > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol
          is one
          > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
          >
        • millennium1000
          Don t forget the lush governmental subsidies to corn farms. The $2/bushel USDA support price to corn farms guarantees participating corn farms at least
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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            Don't forget the lush governmental subsidies to corn farms. The
            $2/bushel USDA support price to corn farms guarantees participating
            corn farms at least $2/bushel for qualified corn production. Wow! The
            government should do very well purchasing corn from farms at $2/bu and
            selling it for what we gladly pay for local grown corn!!! OOPs! Don't
            ignor the word "qualified farms". A participating qualified farm must
            jump through the governmental paper works to qualify to sell corn to
            the government at $2/bushel. Perhaps we should volunteer to "fill out
            the paper works" for corn stoves!!!


            . --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
            >
            > Cornstoves wrote:
            > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
            > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
            competition.
            > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.
            >
            > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is
            one
            > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
            >
          • millennium1000
            Why does Government subsidize Lazy horses grazing grass hardly energized to pull a plow? Replace each pleasure horse with two acres of corn to heat four low
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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              Why does Government subsidize Lazy horses grazing grass hardly
              energized to pull a plow? Replace each pleasure horse with two acres of
              corn to heat four low income houses. --- In
              cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
              >
              > Cornstoves wrote:
              > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
              > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
              competition.
              > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.
              >
              > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is
              one
              > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
              >
            • Cornstoves
              Ken is correct. Why take a perfectly good energy product, subject it to a chemical refinery process, waste about half the energy, use a significant amount of
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 16, 2007
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                Ken is correct. Why take a perfectly good energy product, subject it
                to a chemical refinery process, waste about half the energy, use a
                significant amount of "other" energy during the process, and end up
                using only 2.8 gallons for every ten gallons to start with? The 2.8
                gallons will be 50% efficient at most.
                A corn stove utilizes the entire whole corn kernel with less than 2%
                waste. Washington would waste 98% and utilize 2%.

                --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
                >
                > Cornstoves wrote:
                > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
                > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
                competition.
                > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.
                >
                > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is
                one
                > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
                >
              • Ken Meinken
                ... *IF* that is true, then how come they don t start running power plants on corn? It sure would be more efficient than the ethanol conversion process
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 17, 2007
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                  yellowcorvette4 wrote:
                  > In all events, whole kernel shelled corn cost less than any
                  > other existing energy source.

                  *IF* that is true, then how come they don't start running power plants
                  on corn? It sure would be more efficient than the ethanol conversion
                  process (unless one considers government pork to be part of "efficiency").

                  Ken
                • Cornstoves
                  Utilities with fuel escalation clauses would be required to reduce electrical rates if they switched to corn from coal. Utilities that trade Carbon credits
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 17, 2007
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                    Utilities with fuel escalation clauses would be required to reduce
                    electrical rates if they switched to corn from coal. Utilities that
                    trade Carbon credits would sacrafice the profit made from selling
                    carbon credits if coal fuel were switched or blended with corn. The
                    results of using corn fuel blends with corn are discussed and
                    referenced in the archives (#100-300) herein. In short, German
                    utilities and Ohio First Energy blended corn with coal. Effluents were
                    reduced within EPA guidelines for clean coal combustion. Check the
                    archine discussions for details.
                    Recent coal mine tradegies, not unlike Iraq, are a tragic reminder of
                    the hidden cost of coal and big oil on the public. Farms are also
                    hazardous work places. The work environment of farm work and black
                    lung can hardly be compared to working underground in a coal mine.

                    --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > yellowcorvette4 wrote:
                    > > In all events, whole kernel shelled corn cost less than any
                    > > other existing energy source.
                    >
                    > *IF* that is true, then how come they don't start running power
                    plants
                    > on corn? It sure would be more efficient than the ethanol
                    conversion
                    > process (unless one considers government pork to be part
                    of "efficiency").
                    >
                    > Ken
                    >
                  • yellowcorvette4
                    Pleasure horses are subsidized by Big Brother? Somebody s gotta feed the party symbol, left? Elephants have a right larger appetite to fill than, well, male
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 17, 2007
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                      Pleasure horses are subsidized by Big Brother? Somebody's gotta feed
                      the party symbol, left? Elephants have a "right" larger appetite to
                      fill than, well, male gennies or erh, hybrid horses.

                      --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, "millennium1000"
                      <millennium1000@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Why does Government subsidize Lazy horses grazing grass hardly
                      > energized to pull a plow? Replace each pleasure horse with two
                      acres of
                      > corn to heat four low income houses. --- In
                      > cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Cornstoves wrote:
                      > > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
                      > > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
                      > competition.
                      > > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government
                      help.
                      > >
                      > > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol
                      is
                      > one
                      > > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
                      > >
                      >
                    • millennium1000
                      Ken, What is Big Corn? --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken ... competition. ... one
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 20, 2007
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                        Ken, What is Big Corn? --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken
                        <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Cornstoves wrote:
                        > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
                        > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
                        competition.
                        > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.
                        >
                        > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is
                        one
                        > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
                        >
                      • Cornstoves
                        Ken, Corn ethanol is a governmental sponsored tax waste project. We all know first hand on this forum that energy savings is in whole kernel shelled corn
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 2, 2007
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                          Ken, Corn ethanol is a governmental sponsored tax waste project. We all
                          know first hand on this forum that energy savings is in whole kernel
                          shelled corn purchased directly from the local corn farm. Purchase a
                          corn stove directly from a local corn stove dealer. Pellet stoves do
                          not safely run on 100% corn but corn stoves will run on pellets with
                          somewhat reduced safety. Non-corn fuels hazardously burn in an enclosed
                          hopper. Corn does not.

                          --- In cornplace@yahoogroups.com, Ken Meinken <ken.meinken@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Cornstoves wrote:
                          > > Will Big oil allow corn farms to profit from corn?
                          > > Big oil ratchets oil prices as required to ruin out any
                          competition.
                          > > Any monopoly can do that without help. Big oil has government help.
                          >
                          > <gag> And "big corn" doesn't have government help? Corn/ethanol is
                          one
                          > of the biggest pork barrel rip offs ever!
                          >
                        • Cornstoves
                          ... 16. Corn Derivative Removes Mercury From Power Plant Emissions, By Environmental News Network, Wednesday, September 05, 2001, Located on a peninsula next
                          Message 12 of 12 , Dec 18, 2007
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                            > *IF* that is true, then how come they don't start running power plants
                            > on corn?
                            > Ken
                            >
                            16. Corn Derivative Removes Mercury From Power Plant Emissions, By
                            Environmental News Network, Wednesday, September 05, 2001, Located on
                            a peninsula next to Lake Erie, this Niagara Mohawk coal-fired station
                            produces 600,000 kilowatts of 60-cycle power — along with emissions
                            containing mercury. corn may be the key. Illinois scientists are
                            pleased with a successful full-scale test of a substance derived from
                            corn in a demonstration of the process that took place July 30 through
                            Aug. 12 at the University of Illinois Abbott Power Plant. The
                            carbon-injection demonstration compared the performance of a
                            commercial activated carbon with that of a corn-derived activated
                            carbon developed by researchers at the Illinois State Geological
                            Survey (ISGS) and the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.
                            "This full-scale test capped a five-year collaborative effort to
                            develop low-cost adsorbents for the removal of mercury," said Massoud
                            Rostam-Abadi, a chemical engineer and the head of energy and
                            environmental engineering for the Illinois State Geological Survey.
                            "The test also marked the first time the carbon-injection technology
                            was applied to high-sulfur Illinois coal flue gas." Mercury is a
                            toxic pollutant that can enter rivers, lakes, and the human food
                            chain. Coal-fired power plants are one of the largest human-generated
                            sources of mercury emissions. Rostam-Abadi and his team have been
                            working for years to come up with low-cost, highly effective materials
                            to remove mercury from combustion flue gases. Old tires and pistachio
                            shells looked promising, but they were eclipsed by the potential of
                            corn. "Earlier this year we worked with engineers from URS Radian in
                            Austin, Texas, to look at the effectiveness of corn-based activated
                            carbons for removing both elemental mercury and mercuric chloride from
                            simulated coal combustion flue gases," Rostam-Abadi said. Initial
                            tests indicated that activated carbon adsorbents made from corn could
                            work as well as or better than current commercial products and might
                            even be cheaper to produce. Then in May the researchers screened 13
                            of their experimental adsorbents using actual flue gas from the Abbott
                            Power Plant. Based on the results of those bench-scale tests, two
                            activated carbons — a corn-based material and a commercial product —
                            were selected for full-scale testing. "In the carbon-injection
                            process, adsorbent particles are typically in contact with the flue
                            gas for less than a few seconds," said Mark Rood, a University of
                            Illinois professor of civil and environmental engineering. "Therefore,
                            the most desirable adsorbent would have high reactivity and low cost."
                            A team of engineers from Apogee Scientific in Denver and URS Radian
                            worked with ISGS and University of Illinois engineers to conduct the
                            full-scale tests at Abbott Power Plant, a 30-megawatt facility that
                            burns high-sulfur Illinois coal. First, parametric testing and
                            optimization were performed with the commercial carbon. Those results
                            were then compared with results obtained with the corn-derived carbon.
                            "One of the unique aspects of our program is going from laboratory
                            development to pilot-scale testing and then to full-scale testing,"
                            Rostam-Abadi said. "Few universities have that capability."
                            Collaborators on the project included ISGS chemical engineer Scott
                            Chen and UI graduate students Hsing-Cheng Hsi and Christopher Lehmann.
                            Electric Power Research Institute, Illinois Clean Coal Institute,
                            Illinois Office of Solid Waste Research, and Illinois Corn Marketing
                            Board supported the research financially. Mercury is No. 3 on the
                            federal government's list of the Top 20 hazardous substances, issued
                            by the U.S. EPA and the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease
                            Registry. The nervous system is very sensitive to all forms of
                            mercury. The EPA has determined that mercuric chloride and methyl
                            mercury are possible human carcinogens. Methyl mercury and metallic
                            mercury vapors are more harmful than other forms because more mercury
                            in these forms reaches the brain. Exposure to high levels of metallic,
                            inorganic, or organic mercury can permanently damage the brain,
                            kidneys, and developing fetus. Effects on brain functioning may result
                            in irritability, shyness, tremors, changes in vision or hearing, and
                            memory problems. Short-term exposure to high levels of metallic
                            mercury vapors may cause effects including lung damage, nausea,
                            vomiting, diarrhea, increases in blood pressure or heart rate, skin
                            rashes, and eye irritation. In 1995 pilot tests by the German power
                            company STEAG, the ISGS char captured 99.7 percent of the cancer
                            causing dioxins and furans emitted by the incineration process. The
                            char took up 90 percent of the cadmium and titanium and 50 to 75
                            percent of the antimony, arsenic, lead, chromium, cobalt, copper,
                            manganese, nickel, vanadium, and tin. Mercury was no longer detectable
                            in the flue gas.
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