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Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Schmeltz

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  • wheezul@canby.com
    ... I get the feeling from the first passage that the sense of the word is more like dissolve rather than melt . Maybe softened vegetables make the most
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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      > "schmeltz" is a cognate for "smelt" and usually means smelt or melt.
      >
      > The Early New High German - English Dictionary has:
      > schmelzen sv. to melt, become liquid
      > schmelzen wv. geschmelzt to melt, liquefy, make liquid
      >
      > Grimm has a long entry with many uses that all mean melt.
      >
      > Rumpolt uses "schmeltz" in only a few places. One clearly means melt.
      >
      > sonst wirt der Zucker bald zerschmeltzen/ besteck
      > es mit uberzogen Zimmet/ oder uberzognen Nelken/
      > so bleibt es zierlich/ vnd schmeltzt nicht bald.
      >
      > Then how does one melt cabbage (or herbs) and
      > turnips? They are added after the knödel have
      > cooked an hour. Does he mean to cook them until
      > soft? Or something else?
      >
      > vnd schmeltz Kraut oder Rüben darmit
      > vnd schmeltz ein Kraut darmit/
      > vnd schmeltzt Kraut oder Rüben damit/
      >
      > Ranvaig

      I get the feeling from the first passage that the sense of the word is
      more like 'dissolve' rather than 'melt'. Maybe softened vegetables make
      the most sense. Could it mean that the ingredients were mixed together
      after the knödel were cooked (which doesn't make a great deal of sense
      when serving a dumpling? Could it be a variant spelling for schmaltz?
      I've seen zerschmeltzen used pretty much with instructions for sugar
      ingredients, and that's were I get the idea of dissolve as a nuance of
      meaning because the sugar doesn't really melt per se without the addition
      of liquid called for in the recipes.

      Katherine
    • Cat .
      schmeltz, schmelzen, to melt. (pretty sure it has nothing to do with smelts and other funny little fishies ;-) not having the entire text to hand means I am
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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        schmeltz, schmelzen, to melt. (pretty sure it has nothing to do with smelts and
        other funny little fishies ;-)

        not having the entire text to hand means I am guessing, but if you have ever
        cooked cabbage from scratch you know it melts down/collapses and gets soft.  Is
        the only thing I can guess he may mean.
        No clue about turnips... only cooked em once or twice.

        Gwen Cat
        back to contracts for Spring 2011 and Summer and Fall 2011 schedule  yehaw!

         

        >
        >From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
        >To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
        >Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 9:45:08 AM
        >Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Schmeltz
        >

        >"schmeltz" is a cognate for "smelt" and usually means smelt or melt.
        >
        >The Early New High German - English Dictionary has:
        >schmelzen sv. to melt, become liquid
        >schmelzen wv. geschmelzt to melt, liquefy, make liquid
        >
        >Grimm has a long entry with many uses that all mean melt.
        >
        >Rumpolt uses "schmeltz" in only a few places. One clearly means melt.
        >
        >sonst wirt der Zucker bald zerschmeltzen/ besteck
        >es mit uberzogen Zimmet/ oder uberzognen Nelken/
        >so bleibt es zierlich/ vnd schmeltzt nicht bald.
        >
        >Then how does one melt cabbage (or herbs) and
        >turnips? They are added after the knödel have
        >cooked an hour. Does he mean to cook them until
        >soft? Or something else?
        >
        >vnd schmeltz Kraut oder Rüben darmit
        >vnd schmeltz ein Kraut darmit/
        >vnd schmeltzt Kraut oder Rüben damit/
        >
        >Ranvaig
        >
        >
        >




        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cat .
        Hi Katherine actually, I find sugar does melt with just heat and patience, no liquid needed. Not saying that dissolve would not fit.  Ice melts but disolves
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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          Hi Katherine

          actually, I find sugar does melt with just heat and patience, no liquid needed.
          Not saying that dissolve would not fit.  Ice melts but disolves too.. and the
          German there is schmilzt too.
          Gwen Cat


          >
          >From: "wheezul@..." <wheezul@...>
          >To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
          >Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 9:58:33 AM
          >Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Schmeltz
          >

          >> "schmeltz" is a cognate for "smelt" and usually means smelt or melt.
          >>
          >> The Early New High German - English Dictionary has:
          >> schmelzen sv. to melt, become liquid
          >> schmelzen wv. geschmelzt to melt, liquefy, make liquid
          >>
          >> Grimm has a long entry with many uses that all mean melt.
          >>
          >> Rumpolt uses "schmeltz" in only a few places. One clearly means melt.
          >>
          >> sonst wirt der Zucker bald zerschmeltzen/ besteck
          >> es mit uberzogen Zimmet/ oder uberzognen Nelken/
          >> so bleibt es zierlich/ vnd schmeltzt nicht bald.
          >>
          >> Then how does one melt cabbage (or herbs) and
          >> turnips? They are added after the knödel have
          >> cooked an hour. Does he mean to cook them until
          >> soft? Or something else?
          >>
          >> vnd schmeltz Kraut oder Rüben darmit
          >> vnd schmeltz ein Kraut darmit/
          >> vnd schmeltzt Kraut oder Rüben damit/
          >>
          >> Ranvaig
          >
          >I get the feeling from the first passage that the sense of the word is
          >more like 'dissolve' rather than 'melt'. Maybe softened vegetables make
          >the most sense. Could it mean that the ingredients were mixed together
          >after the knödel were cooked (which doesn't make a great deal of sense
          >when serving a dumpling? Could it be a variant spelling for schmaltz?
          >I've seen zerschmeltzen used pretty much with instructions for sugar
          >ingredients, and that's were I get the idea of dissolve as a nuance of
          >meaning because the sugar doesn't really melt per se without the addition
          >of liquid called for in the recipes.
          >
          >Katherine
          >
          >
          >




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sharon Palmer
          The usual word for melt or dissolve is zerlaß or zerlassen butter is zerlassen speck is zerlassen garlic is zerlassen in vinegar or broth horseradish is
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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            The usual word for melt or dissolve is zerlaß or zerlassen

            butter is zerlassen
            speck is zerlassen
            garlic is zerlassen in vinegar or broth
            horseradish is zerlassen in broth
            chopped apple and onion is zerlaß in broth
            grated bread is xerlaß in warm wine
            garlic and crushed parsley are zerlaß in milk
            crushed figs are zerlaß in wine
            Meltenkraut is strained and zerlaß in broth
            Rosensafft is zerlaß in wine
            watercress is grated and zerlaß in wine vinegar

            less often zergehen or zergehet

            butter zergehet on the fire
            sugar is zergehet
            cheese is zergehet
            pastry zergehet in one's mouth

            zerschmiltzet - only used once, the dictionary says melts away
            geuß ein wenig Wein darüber/ daß der Zucker nur zergehet vnnd zerschmiltzet/

            Ranvaig
          • Antonia
            ... Actually, going by all that, it sounds like zergehet is melted and zerlaß is something like softened. -- Canterbury Faire 2011 - You know you want to!
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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              On 2/12/2010 8:54 a.m., Sharon Palmer wrote:
              > The usual word for melt or dissolve is zerlaß or zerlassen
              >
              > butter is zerlassen
              > speck is zerlassen
              > garlic is zerlassen in vinegar or broth
              > horseradish is zerlassen in broth
              > chopped apple and onion is zerlaß in broth
              > grated bread is xerlaß in warm wine
              > garlic and crushed parsley are zerlaß in milk
              > crushed figs are zerlaß in wine
              > Meltenkraut is strained and zerlaß in broth
              > Rosensafft is zerlaß in wine
              > watercress is grated and zerlaß in wine vinegar
              >
              > less often zergehen or zergehet
              >
              > butter zergehet on the fire
              > sugar is zergehet
              > cheese is zergehet
              > pastry zergehet in one's mouth
              >
              > zerschmiltzet - only used once, the dictionary says melts away
              > geuß ein wenig Wein darüber/ daß der Zucker nur zergehet vnnd zerschmiltzet/

              Actually, going by all that, it sounds like zergehet is "melted" and
              "zerlaß" is something like softened.


              --
              Canterbury Faire 2011 - You know you want to!
              http://sg.lochac.sca.org/cf
            • Cat .
              ... I would disagree with sipmly softened  -  because Rosensafft is zerlaß in wine would mean that the rose juice is dissolved or  perhaps diluted in the
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 1, 2010
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                >
                >From: Antonia <dama.antonia@...>
                >To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                >Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 1:11:26 PM
                >Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Schmeltz
                >

                >On 2/12/2010 8:54 a.m., Sharon Palmer wrote:
                >> The usual word for melt or dissolve is zerlaß or zerlassen
                >>
                >> butter is zerlassen
                >> speck is zerlassen
                >> garlic is zerlassen in vinegar or broth
                >> horseradish is zerlassen in broth
                >> chopped apple and onion is zerlaß in broth
                >> grated bread is xerlaß in warm wine
                >> garlic and crushed parsley are zerlaß in milk
                >> crushed figs are zerlaß in wine
                >> Meltenkraut is strained and zerlaß in broth
                >> Rosensafft is zerlaß in wine
                >> watercress is grated and zerlaß in wine vinegar
                >>
                >> less often zergehen or zergehet
                >>
                >> butter zergehet on the fire
                >> sugar is zergehet
                >> cheese is zergehet
                >> pastry zergehet in one's mouth
                >>
                >> zerschmiltzet - only used once, the dictionary says melts away
                >> geuß ein wenig Wein darüber/ daß der Zucker nur zergehet vnnd zerschmiltzet/
                >
                >Actually, going by all that, it sounds like zergehet is "melted" and
                >"zerlaß" is something like softened.
                >

                I would disagree with sipmly 'softened' -  because Rosensafft is zerlaß in wine
                would mean that the rose juice is dissolved or  perhaps diluted in the wine...

                Gwen Cat (who missed all the cinnamon fun on Cooks list cause you guys alwyas
                get busy over the holidays when Im swamped :-)
              • Sharon Palmer
                I reread the recipe. It says to skim the knödel and schmeltz the cabbage or turnips and the knödel will be good. At first I thought the veggies were added
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 2, 2010
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                  I reread the recipe. It says to skim the knödel
                  and schmeltz the cabbage or turnips and the
                  knödel will be good. At first I thought the
                  veggies were added to the knödel, but I think the
                  answer is that you put the skimmed fat with the
                  veggies and *glaze* them with it.

                  That works with the Grimm definition and with the zerschmiltzet reference
                  geuß ein wenig Wein darüber/ daß der Zucker nur zergehet vnnd zerschmiltzet/
                  the sugar melts and *glazes*, not melts and melts.

                  Ranvaig
                • xina007eu
                  ... Hi Ranvaig, with the herbs, turnips etc., the modern spelling of the word is not schmelzen but schmälzen , i.e.g cook or fry in lard (Schmalz) or other
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 7, 2010
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                    --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > "schmeltz" is a cognate for "smelt" and usually means smelt or melt.
                    >
                    > The Early New High German - English Dictionary has:
                    > schmelzen sv. to melt, become liquid
                    > schmelzen wv. geschmelzt to melt, liquefy, make liquid
                    >
                    > Grimm has a long entry with many uses that all mean melt.
                    >
                    > Rumpolt uses "schmeltz" in only a few places. One clearly means melt.
                    >
                    > sonst wirt der Zucker bald zerschmeltzen/ besteck
                    > es mit uberzogen Zimmet/ oder uberzognen Nelken/
                    > so bleibt es zierlich/ vnd schmeltzt nicht bald.
                    >
                    > Then how does one melt cabbage (or herbs) and
                    > turnips? They are added after the knödel have
                    > cooked an hour. Does he mean to cook them until
                    > soft? Or something else?
                    >
                    > vnd schmeltz Kraut oder Rüben darmit
                    > vnd schmeltz ein Kraut darmit/
                    > vnd schmeltzt Kraut oder Rüben damit/
                    >
                    > Ranvaig
                    >

                    Hi Ranvaig,

                    with the herbs, turnips etc., the modern spelling of the word is not "schmelzen" but "schmälzen", i.e.g cook or fry in lard (Schmalz) or other fat. It's still used in recipes or food descriptions today. E.g. "Maultaschen" are typically served with "geschmälzten Zwiebeln".

                    Hope that helps!

                    Best regards,

                    Christina
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