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Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!

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  • Sharon Palmer
    ... I m vegetarian myself, and haven t eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the internal
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 19, 2009
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      >Bonjour Madame!
      >
      >This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I
      >just started the project this week and I am trying it like, "Where is
      >Waldo", concerning the translations! (LOL!) THERE is an underlying purpose
      >of the research as well... I love turkey and would love to eat it more
      >often, but so much of it out there is too dry when served... so if I can
      >find a way to serve turkey in a way that I can eat it while being
      >period..that will help in the SCA and the mundane.

      I'm vegetarian myself, and haven't eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the internal temp is higher than it should be. Often the breast is over cooked by the time the legs and thighs are done. That might be why they dismembered it.

      >I am quite lucky to call Mistress GwenCat a friend and I can ask her
      >anything as well as the other fine cooks of the Outlands, but Gwen is the
      >German expert of the kingdom! (In my view!) BUT that doesn't go without
      >saying I love to hear what others think as well.

      I'm not lucky enough to have met her face to face, but I also count Mistress GwenCat as a friend, and she has strongly encouraged me to continue the translation. It's a big enough project for more than one person, and I was far from being a German expert when I started.

      >My plan is to look over the basic 20 that have been documented and redact
      >one and submit for baronial A&S later this year. This is my first real
      >endeavor into this whole process of redaction into workable recipe. This is
      >thanks to Mistress Aldyth of Windkeep for showing me the way!

      Please share your redactions here. There hasn't been a lot done yet, but I hoped this group would collect redactions too.

      >I am really enjoying this whole process and I am thinking that I will make a
      >turkey pot pie with the spanish torte that was mentioned in the book. I
      >will have to go back and look at it but I do hope that I can add some
      >veggies to it.

      I haven't seen a lot of documentation for veggies and meat in the same pie, but that doesn't mean that you can't do it, if you prefer.

      Ranvaig
    • Stephanie Yokom
      I will *DEFINITELY *share whatever progress I make on these recipes! I am getting excited about the whole process because when I was a child I did live in
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 19, 2009
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        I will *DEFINITELY *share whatever progress I make on these recipes! I am
        getting excited about the whole process because when I was a child I did
        live in Germany for 3 years and it was the best time of my life. Can't beat
        stuffing a good curry wurst into a brotchen while eating frites and drinking
        and Orangina!

        Many people think that German food is bland.. I tell them it depends on the
        cook!

        THEN DON'T EVEN get me started on the Christmas carnivals! Oh boy oh boy!!

        Sabra

        On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>wrote:

        > >Bonjour Madame!
        > >
        > >This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I
        > >just started the project this week and I am trying it like, "Where is
        > >Waldo", concerning the translations! (LOL!) THERE is an underlying
        > purpose
        > >of the research as well... I love turkey and would love to eat it more
        > >often, but so much of it out there is too dry when served... so if I can
        > >find a way to serve turkey in a way that I can eat it while being
        > >period..that will help in the SCA and the mundane.
        >
        > I'm vegetarian myself, and haven't eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the
        > usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the
        > internal temp is higher than it should be. Often the breast is over cooked
        > by the time the legs and thighs are done. That might be why they
        > dismembered it.
        >
        > >I am quite lucky to call Mistress GwenCat a friend and I can ask her
        > >anything as well as the other fine cooks of the Outlands, but Gwen is the
        > >German expert of the kingdom! (In my view!) BUT that doesn't go without
        > >saying I love to hear what others think as well.
        >
        > I'm not lucky enough to have met her face to face, but I also count
        > Mistress GwenCat as a friend, and she has strongly encouraged me to continue
        > the translation. It's a big enough project for more than one person, and I
        > was far from being a German expert when I started.
        >
        > >My plan is to look over the basic 20 that have been documented and redact
        > >one and submit for baronial A&S later this year. This is my first real
        > >endeavor into this whole process of redaction into workable recipe. This
        > is
        > >thanks to Mistress Aldyth of Windkeep for showing me the way!
        >
        > Please share your redactions here. There hasn't been a lot done yet, but I
        > hoped this group would collect redactions too.
        >
        > >I am really enjoying this whole process and I am thinking that I will make
        > a
        > >turkey pot pie with the spanish torte that was mentioned in the book. I
        > >will have to go back and look at it but I do hope that I can add some
        > >veggies to it.
        >
        > I haven't seen a lot of documentation for veggies and meat in the same pie,
        > but that doesn't mean that you can't do it, if you prefer.
        >
        > Ranvaig
        >
        >
        > ------------------------------------
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cat .
        I had to laugh at this.  Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 20, 2009
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          I had to laugh at this. 
          Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands Crown Tournament Feast I agreed to cook in September (yes, they let me say: I will cook, this is my ovarall budget, I will submit menu and detail figures later.)
          In rummaging through the book I came accross this recipe and made a note to post to this list, only to get home to find it posted.
           
          I think someone made a similar recipes years ago, and the amount of cinamon and cloves used was enough to numb the tounge so I would strongly advise restraint on that front.
           
          PURR
          Gwen Cat
           
          --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Barbara Benson <voxeight@...> wrote:


          From: Barbara Benson <voxeight@...>
          Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
          To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 6:01 PM


           



          > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey.  In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?

          Saluti.

          The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
          effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
          subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
          Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
          I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
          section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
          recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.

          I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
          across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
          significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
          here:

          Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
          38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
          ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
          hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
          fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
          jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
          und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)

          Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
          Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
          and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
          pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
          it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
          be good.

          I guess my point is that there are more than 20 recipes for Turkey in
          Rumpolt. ;)

          Ciao!
          Serena da Riva


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Cat .
          SNIFFLES.  I am sooo humbled by all of you guys.  Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 20, 2009
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            SNIFFLES.  I am sooo humbled by all of you guys.  Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
             
            Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf!  once again you beat me to it!
             
            Gwen SNIFFLY Cat
             

            --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:


            From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
            Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
            To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:19 PM


             



            > > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey. In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?
            >
            >Saluti.
            >
            >The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
            >effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
            >subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
            >Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
            >I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
            >section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
            >recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.
            >
            >I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
            >across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
            >significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
            >here:

            That's a good point. Some mentions in the menus:
            Ein gebraten Indianischen Hanen warm/ drucken geben auff den Tisch
            Ein Indianischen Hanen kalt/ mit roten Ruben
            Ein Indianischen Hanen warm gebraten.
            Gebratenen Indianischen Hanen
            Ein kalten gebratenen Indianischen Hanen.
            Ein Indianischen Han gebraten.
            Ein Indianischen Hanen Pasteten kalt.
            Ein warm gebratenen Indianischen Han.
            Ein Indianischen Hanen in einer lautern Suppen.

            Pasteten 38 that you mention is the only other Turkey recipe in the part I have transcribed.

            Dr Gloning announced that they had finished the transcription a year ago, but he has not yet posted it to his site. I'm not sure what his plans are.

            >
            >Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
            >38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
            >ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
            >hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
            >fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
            >jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
            >und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)
            >
            >Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
            >Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
            >and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
            >pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
            >it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
            >be good.

            I'd make minor changes in this translation that "treib auff" or drive out, means to make the pie shell, either rolling it out or shaping it. "mach zu" means to close the pie.

            Ranvaig


















            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sharon Palmer
            ... Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn t really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded. Ranvaig
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 20, 2009
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              >SNIFFLES. I am sooo humbled by all of you guys. Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
              >
              >Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf! once again you beat me to it!
              >

              Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn't really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded.

              Ranvaig
            • Sharon Palmer
              ... You *will* share your menu, when its ready, won t you? Ranvaig/Sharon
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 20, 2009
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                >I had to laugh at this.
                >Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands Crown Tournament Feast I agreed to cook in September (yes, they let me say: I will cook, this is my ovarall budget, I will submit menu and detail figures later.)
                >In rummaging through the book I came accross this recipe and made a note to post to this list, only to get home to find it posted.

                You *will* share your menu, when its ready, won't you?

                Ranvaig/Sharon
              • Cat .
                Ah yes trixie Germans with their split up verbs :-)   I know my mom can t make pie crust to save her life because she (and I) has to knead it, and handle it
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 21, 2009
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                  Ah yes trixie Germans with their split up verbs :-)
                   
                  I know my mom can't make pie crust to save her life because she (and I) has to knead it, and handle it and it gets cardboard tough.  But I think that is because I dont recall anythign like American style pie crust being used.  I recall items with puff pastry as the base, and I see muerbe teig (tender dough) but nothing like a short pie crust. (of course that could just be modern family and cultural preferences and I am typing BC (thats before coffee) so YMMV.
                   
                  In Service
                  Gwen not ready for morning Cat


                  --- On Mon, 7/20/09, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:


                  From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
                  Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
                  To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, July 20, 2009, 5:16 PM


                   



                  >SNIFFLES. I am sooo humbled by all of you guys. Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
                  >
                  >Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf! once again you beat me to it!
                  >

                  Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn't really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded.

                  Ranvaig
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