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Talking about the Turkey!

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  • carresabran
    Greetings good gentles one and all! My name is Carres Sabran and I am from Calontir, but I am known as Sabra in the Outlands. I have been speaking with
    Message 1 of 14 , Jul 17 1:11 PM
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      Greetings good gentles one and all!

      My name is Carres Sabran and I am from Calontir, but I am known as Sabra in the Outlands.

      I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey. In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?

      Recipe 3. Dismember the turkey/ wings and thigh/ fill it
      especially/ and when it is filled/ so set it to/ and let is simmer/ Lay
      it on a rack/ brown it/ and make a broth to it/ be it sour or sweet/ it is good both ways.

      3.question- After I take the legs, thighs, and wings off...WHAT do I fill it with?



      Recipe 4. You can also make such filled wings with parsley
      root [parsnip]/ good nutmeg blossom [mace] and beef broth/ also with green welltasting herbs. You may make it yellow/ or leave it white/ so it is good both ways

      4. question- Does this recipe mean that you take the wings place them in the cavity of the birds with parsnips, nutmeg, and simmer in a beef brother with a native herb bouquet?
      4. question- What does it mean to make it yellow or leave it white?


      Recipe 12. Or also Spanish pastries.
      12 question- WHAT is a Spanish pastry?

      Recipe 13. Also Spanish fritters.
      13 question- WHAT is a Spanish fritter?

      I would appreciate your insite on these questions!

      Sabra
    • Sharon Palmer
      Hi Sabra, welcome to the list. I m glad you asked your questions here. You can find my updated translation here:
      Message 2 of 14 , Jul 17 8:41 PM
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        Hi Sabra, welcome to the list. I'm glad you asked your questions here.

        You can find my updated translation here:
        http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/rumpolt/rumpolt.html

        >
        >Recipe 3. Dismember the turkey/ wings and thigh/ fill it
        >especially/ and when it is filled/ so set it to/ and let is simmer/ Lay
        >it on a rack/ brown it/ and make a broth to it/ be it sour or sweet/ it is good both ways.
        >
        >3.question- After I take the legs, thighs, and wings off...WHAT do I fill it with?

        They are stuffing the legs and wings, not the body of the bird. You take the bone out of the turkey wing or leg, and stuff the cavity.

        You would probably have to look at some of the other recipes that call for filling. I'll take a look and see if I can find something promising. The fillings I've seen tend to be meat, onions and spices. Think of a pie filling rather than our modern bready idea of "stuffing". There is a menu item for Goose stuffed with chestnuts and quince.


        > Recipe 4. You can also make such filled wings with parsley
        >root [parsnip]/ good nutmeg blossom [mace] and beef broth/ also with green welltasting herbs. You may make it yellow/ or leave it white/ so it is good both ways
        >
        >4. question- Does this recipe mean that you take the wings place them in the cavity of the birds with parsnips, nutmeg, and simmer in a beef brother with a native herb bouquet?

        "Pettersilgen Wurzel" means parsley root, its a root somewhat like a small parsnip. I find them in local grocery stores at times. I don't think parsnip would be a good substitute, the flavor is different

        I think this would be the regular filling (what ever that is) flavored with pieces of the parsley root. Then stuff and cook them in the broth.


        >4. question- What does it mean to make it yellow or leave it white?

        Make yellow means add Safflower or Saffron.. something that makes it yellow. Some recipes specify Saffron, it's not clear exactly what they mean when it isn't specified. It could always mean Saffron, even when it doesn't say so. It could mean Safflower or it could mean the cook makes their own choice.


        >Recipe 12. Or also Spanish pastries.
        >12 question- WHAT is a Spanish pastry?

        Spanish pies are made with puff pastry made by rolling dough thin, spreading it with lard then rolling it up and rolling thin again.

        >Recipe 13. Also Spanish fritters.
        >13 question- WHAT is a Spanish fritter?

        The word I translate as fritter is "krapfen", which is a ravioli like filled object. A Spanish Krapfen is one made with a flaky pastry like filo or strudel and baked.

        See this file:
        http://www.geocities.com/ranvaig/rumpolt/spanishpies.pdf
        Bear in mind that I translated this 2 years ago, when I was first starting.

        ------
        Ranvaig
      • Cat .
        Hi Ranvaig, Good to see you jumping in.  Hope you are well.   I listed parsnip as a possible because locally (Colorado) I have seen parsley in stores, and
        Message 3 of 14 , Jul 17 9:08 PM
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          Hi Ranvaig,
          Good to see you jumping in.  Hope you are well.
           
          I listed parsnip as a possible because locally (Colorado) I have seen parsley in stores, and in plant nurseries, but only rarely see 'hamburg parsley' (I belive the type that is grown for the root) in the nurseries and NEVER in a grocery store (I have seen celery root about 3 times so that is rare too, and I have several celery allergies locally.)  Yes, parsnip is different but was the closest I could come up with (its not jicama, not carrot, not turnip, not....)
           
          Regarding KrapfenL Yes it is dough wraped around a filling but if you are translating ausbacken as baking you might reconsider.  Backen is baking, ausbacken usually involves enough fat (oil, melted butter, lard...) to let the object float or at least not rest on the bottom of the pan... to me that is more deep-frying than baking.  At least that is the modern interpretation, I have no way to know if the term was used differently 400+ years ago, it may well have been.
          Or is that what differentiates Spanishe Krapfen from other Krapfen (the flakey puff type dough rather than a thinner single layer type dough?)
           
          And Sabra - told you this was a GREAT place to pose those questions because you would get other points of view... I had not thought about removing the bones and stuffing that cavity, but that makes total sense now that Ranvaig mentioned it.  slaps forehead with D'oh sound)
           


          --- On Fri, 7/17/09, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:


          From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
          Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
          To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Friday, July 17, 2009, 9:41 PM


           



          Hi Sabra, welcome to the list. I'm glad you asked your questions here.

          You can find my updated translation here:
          http://www.geocitie s.com/ranvaig/ rumpolt/rumpolt. html

          >
          >Recipe 3. Dismember the turkey/ wings and thigh/ fill it
          >especially/ and when it is filled/ so set it to/ and let is simmer/ Lay
          >it on a rack/ brown it/ and make a broth to it/ be it sour or sweet/ it is good both ways.
          >
          >3.question- After I take the legs, thighs, and wings off...WHAT do I fill it with?

          They are stuffing the legs and wings, not the body of the bird. You take the bone out of the turkey wing or leg, and stuff the cavity.

          You would probably have to look at some of the other recipes that call for filling. I'll take a look and see if I can find something promising. The fillings I've seen tend to be meat, onions and spices. Think of a pie filling rather than our modern bready idea of "stuffing". There is a menu item for Goose stuffed with chestnuts and quince.

          > Recipe 4. You can also make such filled wings with parsley
          >root [parsnip]/ good nutmeg blossom [mace] and beef broth/ also with green welltasting herbs. You may make it yellow/ or leave it white/ so it is good both ways
          >
          >4. question- Does this recipe mean that you take the wings place them in the cavity of the birds with parsnips, nutmeg, and simmer in a beef brother with a native herb bouquet?

          "Pettersilgen Wurzel" means parsley root, its a root somewhat like a small parsnip. I find them in local grocery stores at times. I don't think parsnip would be a good substitute, the flavor is different

          I think this would be the regular filling (what ever that is) flavored with pieces of the parsley root. Then stuff and cook them in the broth.

          >4. question- What does it mean to make it yellow or leave it white?

          Make yellow means add Safflower or Saffron.. something that makes it yellow. Some recipes specify Saffron, it's not clear exactly what they mean when it isn't specified. It could always mean Saffron, even when it doesn't say so. It could mean Safflower or it could mean the cook makes their own choice.

          >Recipe 12. Or also Spanish pastries.
          >12 question- WHAT is a Spanish pastry?

          Spanish pies are made with puff pastry made by rolling dough thin, spreading it with lard then rolling it up and rolling thin again.

          >Recipe 13. Also Spanish fritters.
          >13 question- WHAT is a Spanish fritter?

          The word I translate as fritter is "krapfen", which is a ravioli like filled object. A Spanish Krapfen is one made with a flaky pastry like filo or strudel and baked.

          See this file:
          http://www.geocitie s.com/ranvaig/ rumpolt/spanishp ies.pdf
          Bear in mind that I translated this 2 years ago, when I was first starting.

          ------
          Ranvaig



















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sharon Palmer
          ... Life has been a bit exciting... got laid off on July 3, and got hired for a new project with the same company yesterday, but means I have to switch to
          Message 4 of 14 , Jul 18 7:22 PM
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            >Hi Ranvaig,
            >Good to see you jumping in. Hope you are well.

            Life has been a bit exciting... got laid off on July 3, and got hired for a new project with the same company yesterday, but means I have to switch to second shift, and switch to a different building. I'm coping though.

            >I listed parsnip as a possible because locally (Colorado) I have seen parsley in stores, and in plant nurseries, but only rarely see 'hamburg parsley' (I belive the type that is grown for the root) in the nurseries and NEVER in a grocery store (I have seen celery root about 3 times so that is rare too, and I have several celery allergies locally.) Yes, parsnip is different but was the closest I could come up with (its not jicama, not carrot, not turnip, not....)

            I think its pretty reasonable as a substitute. I'd just prefer to see it listed as a substitution rather than a translation. And thinking this over, I think the parsley root is small pieces in the broth, rather than the filling. Looking through all the recipes, the only place parsley root is mentioned is something to add to a clear broth, usually with some kind of meat.

            >Regarding KrapfenL Yes it is dough wraped around a filling but if you are translating ausbacken as baking you might reconsider. Backen is baking, ausbacken usually involves enough fat (oil, melted butter, lard...) to let the object float or at least not rest on the bottom of the pan... to me that is more deep-frying than baking. At least that is the modern interpretation, I have no way to know if the term was used differently 400+ years ago, it may well have been.

            I answered that late at night and didn't re-read the recipe, and its likely that some were fried, but some where baked too.

            Ochsen 62. .... schlag es in diesen Teig ein/ den du hast aufgetrieben/ schneidt es mit einem
            Rädtlein ab/ und wenn du es wilt in Ofen thun/ so bestreich es mit Eierdottern/

            >Or is that what differentiates Spanishe Krapfen from other Krapfen (the flakey puff type dough rather than a thinner single layer type dough?)

            I believe the difference is the kind of dough. That's what distinguishes Spanish pies from other pies. There might also be a difference in shape that he doesn't bother to mention, its certainly not positive, but they could be empanadas or empanaditas.

            Ranvaig
          • Barbara Benson
            ... Saluti. The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the subject, but I
            Message 5 of 14 , Jul 19 5:01 PM
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              > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey.  In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?

              Saluti.

              The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
              effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
              subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
              Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
              I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
              section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
              recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.

              I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
              across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
              significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
              here:

              Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
              38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
              ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
              hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
              fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
              jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
              und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)

              Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
              Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
              and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
              pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
              it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
              be good.

              I guess my point is that there are more than 20 recipes for Turkey in
              Rumpolt. ;)

              Ciao!
              Serena da Riva
            • Stephanie Yokom
              Bonjour Madame! This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I just started the project this week and I am trying it like, Where is
              Message 6 of 14 , Jul 19 5:22 PM
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                Bonjour Madame!

                This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I
                just started the project this week and I am trying it like, "Where is
                Waldo", concerning the translations! (LOL!) THERE is an underlying purpose
                of the research as well... I love turkey and would love to eat it more
                often, but so much of it out there is too dry when served... so if I can
                find a way to serve turkey in a way that I can eat it while being
                period..that will help in the SCA and the mundane.

                I am quite lucky to call Mistress GwenCat a friend and I can ask her
                anything as well as the other fine cooks of the Outlands, but Gwen is the
                German expert of the kingdom! (In my view!) BUT that doesn't go without
                saying I love to hear what others think as well.

                My plan is to look over the basic 20 that have been documented and redact
                one and submit for baronial A&S later this year. This is my first real
                endeavor into this whole process of redaction into workable recipe. This is
                thanks to Mistress Aldyth of Windkeep for showing me the way!

                I am really enjoying this whole process and I am thinking that I will make a
                turkey pot pie with the spanish torte that was mentioned in the book. I
                will have to go back and look at it but I do hope that I can add some
                veggies to it.

                Sabra

                On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 7:01 PM, Barbara Benson <voxeight@...> wrote:

                > > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands
                > about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey. In the cookbook
                > there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone
                > shed some light on these questions for me?
                >
                > Saluti.
                >
                > The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
                > effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
                > subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
                > Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
                > I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
                > section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
                > recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.
                >
                > I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
                > across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
                > significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
                > here:
                >
                > Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
                > 38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
                > ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
                > hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
                > fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
                > jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
                > und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)
                >
                > Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
                > Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
                > and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
                > pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
                > it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
                > be good.
                >
                > I guess my point is that there are more than 20 recipes for Turkey in
                > Rumpolt. ;)
                >
                > Ciao!
                > Serena da Riva
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Sharon Palmer
                ... That s a good point. Some mentions in the menus: Ein gebraten Indianischen Hanen warm/ drucken geben auff den Tisch Ein Indianischen Hanen kalt/ mit
                Message 7 of 14 , Jul 19 6:19 PM
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                  > > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey. In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?
                  >
                  >Saluti.
                  >
                  >The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
                  >effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
                  >subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
                  >Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
                  >I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
                  >section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
                  >recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.
                  >
                  >I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
                  >across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
                  >significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
                  >here:

                  That's a good point. Some mentions in the menus:
                  Ein gebraten Indianischen Hanen warm/ drucken geben auff den Tisch
                  Ein Indianischen Hanen kalt/ mit roten Ruben
                  Ein Indianischen Hanen warm gebraten.
                  Gebratenen Indianischen Hanen
                  Ein kalten gebratenen Indianischen Hanen.
                  Ein Indianischen Han gebraten.
                  Ein Indianischen Hanen Pasteten kalt.
                  Ein warm gebratenen Indianischen Han.
                  Ein Indianischen Hanen in einer lautern Suppen.

                  Pasteten 38 that you mention is the only other Turkey recipe in the part I have transcribed.

                  Dr Gloning announced that they had finished the transcription a year ago, but he has not yet posted it to his site. I'm not sure what his plans are.

                  >
                  >Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
                  >38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
                  >ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
                  >hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
                  >fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
                  >jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
                  >und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)
                  >
                  >Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
                  >Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
                  >and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
                  >pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
                  >it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
                  >be good.

                  I'd make minor changes in this translation that "treib auff" or drive out, means to make the pie shell, either rolling it out or shaping it. "mach zu" means to close the pie.

                  Ranvaig
                • Sharon Palmer
                  ... I m vegetarian myself, and haven t eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the internal
                  Message 8 of 14 , Jul 19 6:26 PM
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                    >Bonjour Madame!
                    >
                    >This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I
                    >just started the project this week and I am trying it like, "Where is
                    >Waldo", concerning the translations! (LOL!) THERE is an underlying purpose
                    >of the research as well... I love turkey and would love to eat it more
                    >often, but so much of it out there is too dry when served... so if I can
                    >find a way to serve turkey in a way that I can eat it while being
                    >period..that will help in the SCA and the mundane.

                    I'm vegetarian myself, and haven't eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the internal temp is higher than it should be. Often the breast is over cooked by the time the legs and thighs are done. That might be why they dismembered it.

                    >I am quite lucky to call Mistress GwenCat a friend and I can ask her
                    >anything as well as the other fine cooks of the Outlands, but Gwen is the
                    >German expert of the kingdom! (In my view!) BUT that doesn't go without
                    >saying I love to hear what others think as well.

                    I'm not lucky enough to have met her face to face, but I also count Mistress GwenCat as a friend, and she has strongly encouraged me to continue the translation. It's a big enough project for more than one person, and I was far from being a German expert when I started.

                    >My plan is to look over the basic 20 that have been documented and redact
                    >one and submit for baronial A&S later this year. This is my first real
                    >endeavor into this whole process of redaction into workable recipe. This is
                    >thanks to Mistress Aldyth of Windkeep for showing me the way!

                    Please share your redactions here. There hasn't been a lot done yet, but I hoped this group would collect redactions too.

                    >I am really enjoying this whole process and I am thinking that I will make a
                    >turkey pot pie with the spanish torte that was mentioned in the book. I
                    >will have to go back and look at it but I do hope that I can add some
                    >veggies to it.

                    I haven't seen a lot of documentation for veggies and meat in the same pie, but that doesn't mean that you can't do it, if you prefer.

                    Ranvaig
                  • Stephanie Yokom
                    I will *DEFINITELY *share whatever progress I make on these recipes! I am getting excited about the whole process because when I was a child I did live in
                    Message 9 of 14 , Jul 19 6:39 PM
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                      I will *DEFINITELY *share whatever progress I make on these recipes! I am
                      getting excited about the whole process because when I was a child I did
                      live in Germany for 3 years and it was the best time of my life. Can't beat
                      stuffing a good curry wurst into a brotchen while eating frites and drinking
                      and Orangina!

                      Many people think that German food is bland.. I tell them it depends on the
                      cook!

                      THEN DON'T EVEN get me started on the Christmas carnivals! Oh boy oh boy!!

                      Sabra

                      On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 8:26 PM, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>wrote:

                      > >Bonjour Madame!
                      > >
                      > >This project is all about turkey and it validity in period and region. I
                      > >just started the project this week and I am trying it like, "Where is
                      > >Waldo", concerning the translations! (LOL!) THERE is an underlying
                      > purpose
                      > >of the research as well... I love turkey and would love to eat it more
                      > >often, but so much of it out there is too dry when served... so if I can
                      > >find a way to serve turkey in a way that I can eat it while being
                      > >period..that will help in the SCA and the mundane.
                      >
                      > I'm vegetarian myself, and haven't eaten turkey in 30 some years, but the
                      > usual reason for dry turkey is because it is cooked too long, so the
                      > internal temp is higher than it should be. Often the breast is over cooked
                      > by the time the legs and thighs are done. That might be why they
                      > dismembered it.
                      >
                      > >I am quite lucky to call Mistress GwenCat a friend and I can ask her
                      > >anything as well as the other fine cooks of the Outlands, but Gwen is the
                      > >German expert of the kingdom! (In my view!) BUT that doesn't go without
                      > >saying I love to hear what others think as well.
                      >
                      > I'm not lucky enough to have met her face to face, but I also count
                      > Mistress GwenCat as a friend, and she has strongly encouraged me to continue
                      > the translation. It's a big enough project for more than one person, and I
                      > was far from being a German expert when I started.
                      >
                      > >My plan is to look over the basic 20 that have been documented and redact
                      > >one and submit for baronial A&S later this year. This is my first real
                      > >endeavor into this whole process of redaction into workable recipe. This
                      > is
                      > >thanks to Mistress Aldyth of Windkeep for showing me the way!
                      >
                      > Please share your redactions here. There hasn't been a lot done yet, but I
                      > hoped this group would collect redactions too.
                      >
                      > >I am really enjoying this whole process and I am thinking that I will make
                      > a
                      > >turkey pot pie with the spanish torte that was mentioned in the book. I
                      > >will have to go back and look at it but I do hope that I can add some
                      > >veggies to it.
                      >
                      > I haven't seen a lot of documentation for veggies and meat in the same pie,
                      > but that doesn't mean that you can't do it, if you prefer.
                      >
                      > Ranvaig
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Cat .
                      I had to laugh at this.  Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands
                      Message 10 of 14 , Jul 20 10:33 AM
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                        I had to laugh at this. 
                        Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands Crown Tournament Feast I agreed to cook in September (yes, they let me say: I will cook, this is my ovarall budget, I will submit menu and detail figures later.)
                        In rummaging through the book I came accross this recipe and made a note to post to this list, only to get home to find it posted.
                         
                        I think someone made a similar recipes years ago, and the amount of cinamon and cloves used was enough to numb the tounge so I would strongly advise restraint on that front.
                         
                        PURR
                        Gwen Cat
                         
                        --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Barbara Benson <voxeight@...> wrote:


                        From: Barbara Benson <voxeight@...>
                        Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
                        To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 6:01 PM


                         



                        > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey.  In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?

                        Saluti.

                        The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
                        effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
                        subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
                        Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
                        I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
                        section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
                        recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.

                        I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
                        across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
                        significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
                        here:

                        Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
                        38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
                        ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
                        hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
                        fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
                        jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
                        und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)

                        Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
                        Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
                        and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
                        pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
                        it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
                        be good.

                        I guess my point is that there are more than 20 recipes for Turkey in
                        Rumpolt. ;)

                        Ciao!
                        Serena da Riva


















                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Cat .
                        SNIFFLES.  I am sooo humbled by all of you guys.  Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making
                        Message 11 of 14 , Jul 20 10:39 AM
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                          SNIFFLES.  I am sooo humbled by all of you guys.  Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
                           
                          Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf!  once again you beat me to it!
                           
                          Gwen SNIFFLY Cat
                           

                          --- On Sun, 7/19/09, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:


                          From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
                          Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
                          To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, July 19, 2009, 7:19 PM


                           



                          > > I have been speaking with Mistress GwenCat of Caerthe of the Outlands about this cookbook and the recipes concerning the turkey. In the cookbook there are 20 recipes and I have a few questions about them..could someone shed some light on these questions for me?
                          >
                          >Saluti.
                          >
                          >The two good ladies who have already replied to you have very
                          >effectively answered you with more knowledge than I have in the
                          >subject, but I thought I might add a little note to your inquiry.
                          >Presuming that the focus of the project you are working on is Turkey,
                          >I would like to point out that while there are 20 recipes in the
                          >section that is labeled Indianishen Hen, there are additional Turkey
                          >recipes scattered throughout the manuscript.
                          >
                          >I have not made a specific search for them, but I do remember coming
                          >across them along the way. One specific recipe that I translated (with
                          >significantly less skill then many others on this list) I can provide
                          >here:

                          That's a good point. Some mentions in the menus:
                          Ein gebraten Indianischen Hanen warm/ drucken geben auff den Tisch
                          Ein Indianischen Hanen kalt/ mit roten Ruben
                          Ein Indianischen Hanen warm gebraten.
                          Gebratenen Indianischen Hanen
                          Ein kalten gebratenen Indianischen Hanen.
                          Ein Indianischen Han gebraten.
                          Ein Indianischen Hanen Pasteten kalt.
                          Ein warm gebratenen Indianischen Han.
                          Ein Indianischen Hanen in einer lautern Suppen.

                          Pasteten 38 that you mention is the only other Turkey recipe in the part I have transcribed.

                          Dr Gloning announced that they had finished the transcription a year ago, but he has not yet posted it to his site. I'm not sure what his plans are.

                          >
                          >Pie of Indian Hen (Translation by B. Benson/Serena da Riva)
                          >38. Indianische Hennen gespictt mit Zemmet und Neglein/ treib darzu
                          >ein Pasteten auff mit einem Ruckenteig/ und leg den Indianishen Han
                          >hinein/ bestraw jn wol mit Pfeffer/ Neglein un Salk/ schneidt Spect
                          >fein dunne und breit/ und beleg den Han in der Pasteten damit/ daß du
                          >jhn nicht spicten darffst/ mach zu/ und scheubs in Ofen/ laß bacten/
                          >und kalt werden/ so wirt es auch gut. (Rumpoldt)
                          >
                          >Turkey larded with Cinnamon and Cloves/ Knead thereto a Pie with Rye
                          >Dough/ and lay the Turkey therin/ Sprinkle it well with Pepper/ Cloves
                          >and Salt/ cut Bacon nicely thin and broad/ and cover the Hen in the
                          >pie therewith/ so that you do not need to lard it at first / prepare
                          >it/ and put it into the Oven/ let it bake/ and let it cool/ so it will
                          >be good.

                          I'd make minor changes in this translation that "treib auff" or drive out, means to make the pie shell, either rolling it out or shaping it. "mach zu" means to close the pie.

                          Ranvaig


















                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Sharon Palmer
                          ... Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn t really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded. Ranvaig
                          Message 12 of 14 , Jul 20 4:16 PM
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                            >SNIFFLES. I am sooo humbled by all of you guys. Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
                            >
                            >Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf! once again you beat me to it!
                            >

                            Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn't really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded.

                            Ranvaig
                          • Sharon Palmer
                            ... You *will* share your menu, when its ready, won t you? Ranvaig/Sharon
                            Message 13 of 14 , Jul 20 4:18 PM
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                              >I had to laugh at this.
                              >Sunday afternoon I was sitting at our local cooks guild meeting and looking through Rumpolt to get a menu finalized for the Outlands Crown Tournament Feast I agreed to cook in September (yes, they let me say: I will cook, this is my ovarall budget, I will submit menu and detail figures later.)
                              >In rummaging through the book I came accross this recipe and made a note to post to this list, only to get home to find it posted.

                              You *will* share your menu, when its ready, won't you?

                              Ranvaig/Sharon
                            • Cat .
                              Ah yes trixie Germans with their split up verbs :-)   I know my mom can t make pie crust to save her life because she (and I) has to knead it, and handle it
                              Message 14 of 14 , Jul 21 7:07 AM
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                                Ah yes trixie Germans with their split up verbs :-)
                                 
                                I know my mom can't make pie crust to save her life because she (and I) has to knead it, and handle it and it gets cardboard tough.  But I think that is because I dont recall anythign like American style pie crust being used.  I recall items with puff pastry as the base, and I see muerbe teig (tender dough) but nothing like a short pie crust. (of course that could just be modern family and cultural preferences and I am typing BC (thats before coffee) so YMMV.
                                 
                                In Service
                                Gwen not ready for morning Cat


                                --- On Mon, 7/20/09, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:


                                From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
                                Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Talking about the Turkey!
                                To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Monday, July 20, 2009, 5:16 PM


                                 



                                >SNIFFLES. I am sooo humbled by all of you guys. Im THRILLED that Rumpolt is getting out there and folks want to play with him, and that you guys are making it much easier for others to do so!!!!
                                >
                                >Ranvaig, good suggestion on the treib auf! once again you beat me to it!
                                >

                                Those Germans are tricky about separating the parts of the verb. It doesn't really change the recipe, although pie crust is not usually kneaded.

                                Ranvaig
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