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Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Steinhüner

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  • grasse@mscd.edu
    Rock, at least in modern German, does translate as Stein (ok or stone.) Purr Gwen Cat who should get a cup of that modern caffeine before any further thought
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 30, 2008
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      Rock, at least in modern German, does translate as Stein (ok or stone.)

      Purr
      Gwen Cat
      who should get a cup of that modern caffeine before any further thought
      is required.

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: xina007eu <Christina_Lemke@...>
      Date: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:38 am
      Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Steinhüner
      To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com

      > --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
      > >
      > > After the summer off, I'm working on the translation again.
      > >
      > > I'm trying to find a definition for Steinhenn or Steinhüner.
      > > A German site seems to say that it is a chukar partridge, which
      > is
      > somewhat between a quail and a partridge. Can anyone confirm that?
      > >
      > > Ranvaig
      > >
      >
      > Hi Ranvaig,
      > http://www.markuskappeler.ch/tex/texs/rebhuhn.html
      > says that the biological terminology for "Steinhuhn" is Alectoris
      > graeca, which according to
      > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alectoris_graeca would make it a
      > "rock
      > partridge".
      >
      > Best regards,
      >
      > Christina
      >
      >
      >
    • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
      ... I was close, then. Thanks for the help. Ranvaig http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Partridge is closely related and very similar to its eastern equivalent,
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 30, 2008
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        > > Hi Ranvaig,
        >> http://www.markuskappeler.ch/tex/texs/rebhuhn.html
        >> says that the biological terminology for "Steinhuhn" is Alectoris
        >> graeca, which according to
        >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alectoris_graeca would make it a
        >> "rock
        > > partridge".

        I was close, then. Thanks for the help.
        Ranvaig

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_Partridge
        is closely related and very similar to its eastern equivalent, the Chukar, A. chukar.

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/52/Steinhuhn_Alectoris_graeca.jpg/400px-Steinhuhn_Alectoris_graeca.jpg

        http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Alectoris-chukar-001.jpg/586px-Alectoris-chukar-001.jpg
      • xina007eu
        ... animalss ... gelatine ... one of my problem words. When I find words like this, I search for the document for other uses, to try to get a clearer
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 30, 2008
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          --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
          >
          > >"einmachen" is to pickle or to preserve. Making aspic out of
          animalss
          > >heads is still done in germany, though mostly with pig's heads
          > >(Schweinskopfsülze, pig's head aspic).
          > >I suspect this is what this recipe is trying to tell us, you simmer
          > >the head in the broth and the broth contains so much natural
          gelatine
          > >from the bones that it will set into aspic.
          >
          > I know that what the dictionary says. "Einmachen" has always been
          one of my problem words. When I find words like this, I search for
          the document for other uses, to try to get a clearer understanding.
          In many cases preserved or pickled would fit, in others it is not so
          clear.
          >
          > For the sweet things, I think candied might be a better
          translation. There is also a whole chapter "Von Allerley
          Eyngemachten.
          >
          > Having collected these, I wonder if "marinated" might be a good
          translation. Although that still doesn't explain the dough.
          >
          > Gebackens 6. Braune runde Kuchen von eingebrenntem Teig/ wie vorhin
          vermeldt ist/ wie man den
          > Teig einmachen soll/ sonderlich zum braunen Gebacken.
          > --- Would dough be pickled or preserved?
          >
          > Turten 4. Nimm Vngerische Pflaumen grün oder dürr / thu die Kern
          herauß / so seindt sie zum
          > einmachen gut.
          > ---- It could be saying to preserve the filling for later use in a
          tart.
          >

          Hi Ranvaig,

          I guess „einmachen" can mean different things in the recipes.
          "Ein weiß eyngemachten Aal saur" sounds like pickled eel.
          With „Ein braune Gallrat/ vnd blaw abgesotten Sälmling in die Gallrat
          eyngemacht/ auch mit vberzogen Mandeln vmblegt" I guess „Gallrat" ist
          he same word as modern German "Gallerte", so we are talking about
          fish in jelly.
          Or "Auch eyngemachte Sültzen oder Kudelfleck/ es sey gelb oder weiß"
          where the word "Sültze" is a clear indication we are talking about
          aspic. "Kuttelfleck" is a stew made from tripe, so I'm a bit puzzled
          about that in this context.

          With the meat or fruit that is "eingemacht" in pastry or dough, he is
          probably talking about some kind of pie or pasty where the meat is
          enclosed in the dough:
          "Hammel 38. Du kanst auch Schlegel warm in Pasteten einmachen."
          And
          "Turten 4. Nimm Vngerische Pflaumen grün oder dürr / thu die Kern
          herauß / so
          seindt sie zum einmachen gut."
          Normally I'd say it's a recommendation for making plum jam out of
          those plums but if we are talking about "Turten" (= "Torten" = tarts,
          I guess) it's probably some kind of plum pie or tart.

          With regards to "gescharbt", the Grimm dictionary says:
          " SCHARBEN,SCHÄRBEN, verb. concidere, minutare, ahd. scarpôn GRAFF
          6, 54, mhd. scharben, scherben, mnd. scharven, scherven SCHILLER -
          LÜBBEN 4, 53b, holländ. scherven; mit der scharbe schneiden: scharben
          oder schärben FRISCH 2, 162b; kräuter in der apothecke zur medicin
          oder zum kochen in der küche scharben ebenda; den kohl scharben,
          zotticht klein schneiden ebenda; petersilie, kohl u. s. f. werden in
          den küchen geschärbet. ADELUNG; in Meiszen, Schlesien, Voigtlande und
          andern örtern, da die rechten sauern kohlfresser wohnen, da scharbt
          oder stampft man ihn (den kohl) erstlich fein klein. COLERUS hausbuch
          3, 47; "

          So "scharben" meant to cut into small pieces. "Gescharbte Äpfel" are
          probably grated apples, which I can imagine being used in a sauce.
          And a "Gescharb" would be any kind of stuff cut into small pieces.

          Best regards,

          Christina
        • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
          Here are the last Steinhüner recipes, with a few open issues. Steinhenn 5. Karwenada von der Steinhennen. Wenn man sie abgliedt/ so spickt man die stück/
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 30, 2008
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            Here are the last Steinhüner recipes, with a few open issues.

            Steinhenn 5. Karwenada von der Steinhennen. Wenn man sie abgliedt/ so spickt man die stück/ vnd legt sie auff einen Roßt/ vnd bräts/ versaltz vnnd verpfeffers nicht/ Wenn du es anrichtest/ so truck saur Limoniensafft darauff/ so schmecktes gut vnd lieblich. Wiltu es aber also nicht haben/ so nim~ gebehte Schnitten Brot von einem Weck/ beh es ab/ vnd begeuß mit frischer Butter die unzerlassen ist/ leg ein theil Schnitten auff den Boden in eine Schüssel/ vn~ leg das Karwenada darauff/ thu widerumb Schnitten darüber/ nim~ ein wenig feißte Rindtfleischbrüh/ vnnd geuß oben darüber/ vnd flugs also warm auff ein Tisch geschickt/ so ist es ein gute Speise.

            Carbonado from the rock pheasant. If one dismembers it/ then one lards the pieces/ and lays it on a grill/ and roasts it/ do not over salt or over pepper it/ When you would serve it/ so "truck" sour lemon juice over it/ like this it tastes good and lovely. If you would instead not have it/ then take toasted slices of bread from a weck/ toast them/ and baste with fresh butter that is unmelted/ lay one part slice on the bottom of a dish/ and lay the carbonados over it/ put more slices over it/ take a little fat beef broth/ and pour over it/ and then quickly send warm to a table/ like this it is a good dish.

            -- "truck" is from "trucken" or modernly "trocken" dry. I found similar usage "so weich jn in eine süsse Milch/ und wann er weich ist/ so wasch die Händ sauber/ und truck die Milch auß dem Weck" soak bread in milk and squeeze it dry. The sense seems to be squeezing a lemon dry over the meat.

            -- "unzerlassen" is translated as unmelted, "begeuß" begossen as to baste or pour, usually pouring broth over something. "so geuß die Suppen darunter", "so begeuß mit frischer unzerlassener Butter", "so nimm ein frische Meienbutter/ die unzerlassen ist/ ", "und begeuß mit zerlassenem Speck". But why would you use unmelted butter to baste? The word "ungeschmältzer" is also used for unmelted, is there any difference?

            Steinhenn 6. Steinhennen in Pasteten eyngemacht/ es sey kalt oder warm/ ist es auff beyde manier gut zu essen. Auch Knödel Pasteten warm gekocht/ oder eyngedämpfft/ oder in ein Gescharb fein warm.

            Oder wenn die Knödel gesotten seyn/ so macht man ein süssen Pobrat darüber/ Vnnd wenn sie dünn gemacht/ vn~ auff einem Roßt abgebraten/ mit süssen Pobrat gesotten/ Oder die Knödel

            eyngedämpfft mit Limonien. Du kanst auch die Hennen braten vnnd abglieden/ in einem Mandel oder Epffelgescharb/ oder in einem Pfeffer/ der von Henneschweiß gemacht ist/ kocken/ auch die Darmen/

            Leberlein vnd Magen sauber außbutzen vnd zurichten/ es sey in Pfeffer/ oder gelb eyngemacht/ sein säurlich mit Limonien. Wenn die Steinhenn mager ist/ so kan man sie füllen/ es sey zum eynmachen oder braten.

            Rock pheasant eyngemacht in a pie/ be it cold or warm/ is its good to eat in both manners. Also meatball pie warm cooked or steamed/ or in a gescharb nicely warm. Or when the meatballs are boiled/ like this one makes a sweet Pobrat sauce over it/ And when you would make them thin and roast on a grill/ cook with a sweet pobrat sauce/ Or steam the meatballs with lemon. You can also roast the hens and dismember/ in an almond or apple gescharb sauce/ or in a pepper (sauce)/ that is made from hen's blood/ also the intestine, liver, stomach (gizzard?) cleanly trimmed and prepared/ be it in a pepper (sauce) or prepared yellow/ which is sour with lemon. When the rock pheasant is thin, you can stuff it/ be it for eynmachen or roast.

            ---- there is "einmachen" again

            Ranvaig
          • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
            ... If it means different things in different recipes, how can you tell just what it means in any given recipe? Some of them clearly do *not* mean pickled or
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 30, 2008
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              >I guess „einmachen" can mean different things in the recipes.

              If it means different things in different recipes, how can you tell just what it means in any given recipe? Some of them clearly do *not* mean pickled or jellied. I still think I'm missing the exact sense of what it means.

              >
              >So "scharben" meant to cut into small pieces. "Gescharbte Äpfel" are
              >probably grated apples, which I can imagine being used in a sauce.
              >And a "Gescharb" would be any kind of stuff cut into small pieces.

              Yes, I know the word is related to the English shard, but that isn't a recipe.

              Rumpolt blithely tells you to serve a dish in a gesharb or in a pepper sauce, or a pobrat sauce, but he doesn't have a sauce section, and any sauce recipes are mixed in with the rest.

              Ranvaig
            • xina007eu
              ... so spickt man die stück/ vnd legt sie auff einen Roßt/ vnd bräts/ versaltz vnnd verpfeffers nicht/ Wenn du es anrichtest/ so truck saur Limoniensafft
              Message 6 of 30 , Nov 3, 2008
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                --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
                >
                > Here are the last Steinhüner recipes, with a few open issues.
                >
                > Steinhenn 5. Karwenada von der Steinhennen. Wenn man sie abgliedt/
                so spickt man die stück/ vnd legt sie auff einen Roßt/ vnd bräts/
                versaltz vnnd verpfeffers nicht/ Wenn du es anrichtest/ so truck
                saur Limoniensafft darauff/ so schmecktes gut vnd lieblich. Wiltu es
                aber also nicht haben/ so nim~ gebehte Schnitten Brot von einem Weck/
                beh es ab/ vnd begeuß mit frischer Butter die unzerlassen ist/ leg
                ein theil Schnitten auff den Boden in eine Schüssel/ vn~ leg das
                Karwenada darauff/ thu widerumb Schnitten darüber/ nim~ ein wenig
                feißte Rindtfleischbrüh/ vnnd geuß oben darüber/ vnd flugs also warm
                auff ein Tisch geschickt/ so ist es ein gute Speise.
                >
                > Carbonado from the rock pheasant. If one dismembers it/ then one
                lards the pieces/ and lays it on a grill/ and roasts it/ do not over
                salt or over pepper it/ When you would serve it/ so "truck" sour
                lemon juice over it/ like this it tastes good and lovely. If you
                would instead not have it/ then take toasted slices of bread from a
                weck/ toast them/ and baste with fresh butter that is unmelted/ lay
                one part slice on the bottom of a dish/ and lay the carbonados over
                it/ put more slices over it/ take a little fat beef broth/ and pour
                over it/ and then quickly send warm to a table/ like this it is a
                good dish.
                >
                > -- "truck" is from "trucken" or modernly "trocken" dry. I found
                similar usage "so weich jn in eine süsse Milch/ und wann er weich
                ist/ so wasch die Händ sauber/ und truck die Milch auß dem Weck"
                soak bread in milk and squeeze it dry. The sense seems to be
                squeezing a lemon dry over the meat.

                >
                > -- "unzerlassen" is translated as unmelted, "begeuß" begossen as to
                baste or pour, usually pouring broth over something. "so geuß die
                Suppen darunter", "so begeuß mit frischer unzerlassener Butter", "so
                nimm ein frische Meienbutter/ die unzerlassen ist/ ", "und begeuß mit
                zerlassenem Speck". But why would you use unmelted butter to
                baste? The word "ungeschmältzer" is also used for unmelted, is
                there any difference?
                >

                Hi Ranvaig,

                "Trucken" is simply an old variant of modern German "drücken", to
                press.

                Geschmälzte Butter might be clarified butter, you can buy this today
                as "Butterschmalz". As far as I know, it is the fat of the butter
                with the watery parts evaporated.

                Best regards,

                Christina
              • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                ... Ochsen 15. Wann die Zung gesotten ist/ so schneidt sie von einander/ leg sie auf ein Roßt/ und breun sie ab/ begeuß sie mit frischer Butter die
                Message 7 of 30 , Nov 3, 2008
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                  >
                  >
                  >"Trucken" is simply an old variant of modern German "drücken", to
                  >press.

                  Ochsen 15. Wann die Zung gesotten ist/ so schneidt sie von einander/ leg sie auf ein Roßt/ und breun sie
                  ab/ begeuß sie mit frischer Butter die unzulassen ist/ und wann du es wilt anrichten/ so nimm
                  Pfeffer und Salz durcheinander/ streuw es darüber/ und gibs also trucken/ oder mach ein
                  Mandelgescharb/ das gelb und süß ist/ darunter/ so wirt es gut und wohl geschmack.

                  15. When the tongue is cooked, then cut it apart/ lay it on a grill and brown it/ baste with fresh butter/ that is unmelted/ and when you will serve/ then take pepper and salt mixed together/ sprinkle it all over/ and give it dry/ or make an almond gescharb sauce/ that is yellow and sweet/ beneath/ like this it is good and well tasting.

                  Here "trucken" does mean "dry" not "press". It's used like this in many places. Give dry or with a sauce. But perhaps "truck" is from "drücken", as you say.

                  Ranvaig
                • Huette von Ahrens
                  I am with Ranvaig in that trucken is a variation of trocken and means dry. But in trying to make sense to English speakers, I sometimes think that
                  Message 8 of 30 , Nov 4, 2008
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                    I am with Ranvaig in that "trucken" is a variation of "trocken" and means dry. But in trying to make sense to English speakers, I sometimes think that translating too literally can be confusing to those who don't understand German grammar. The idea that one serves this dish "dry" bothers me because "dry" sounds unappetizing to me. If I were the translator, I would change the meaning to "plain". Serve it plain or with a sauce. Otherwise someone might make this dish without any moisture and that would be awful. YMMV.

                    Huette



                    --- On Mon, 11/3/08, ranvaig@... <ranvaig@...> wrote:

                    > From: ranvaig@... <ranvaig@...>
                    > Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Steinhüner
                    > To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Monday, November 3, 2008, 5:14 PM
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >"Trucken" is simply an old variant of modern
                    > German "drücken", to
                    > >press.
                    >
                    > Ochsen 15. Wann die Zung gesotten ist/ so schneidt sie von
                    > einander/ leg sie auf ein Roßt/ und breun sie
                    > ab/ begeuß sie mit frischer Butter die unzulassen ist/ und
                    > wann du es wilt anrichten/ so nimm
                    > Pfeffer und Salz durcheinander/ streuw es darüber/ und
                    > gibs also trucken/ oder mach ein
                    > Mandelgescharb/ das gelb und süß ist/ darunter/ so wirt
                    > es gut und wohl geschmack.
                    >
                    > 15. When the tongue is cooked, then cut it apart/ lay it on
                    > a grill and brown it/ baste with fresh butter/ that is
                    > unmelted/ and when you will serve/ then take pepper and salt
                    > mixed together/ sprinkle it all over/ and give it dry/ or
                    > make an almond gescharb sauce/ that is yellow and sweet/
                    > beneath/ like this it is good and well tasting.
                    >
                    > Here "trucken" does mean "dry" not
                    > "press". It's used like this in many places.
                    > Give dry or with a sauce. But perhaps "truck" is
                    > from "drücken", as you say.
                    >
                    > Ranvaig
                    >
                    > ------------------------------------
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                    ... Yes trucken means without a sauce, and I think I will add that in parentheses. so nim~ frische saure Limonien/ walger sei fein zwischen zweyen Tüchern/
                    Message 9 of 30 , Nov 4, 2008
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                      >I am with Ranvaig in that "trucken" is a variation of "trocken" and means dry. But in trying to make sense to English speakers, I sometimes think that translating too literally can be confusing to those who don't understand German grammar. The idea that one serves this dish "dry" bothers me because "dry" sounds unappetizing to me. If I were the translator, I would change the meaning to "plain". Serve it plain or with a sauce. Otherwise someone might make this dish without any moisture and that would be awful. YMMV.

                      Yes "trucken" means without a sauce, and I think I will add that in parentheses.

                      so nim~ frische saure Limonien/ walger sei fein zwischen zweyen Tüchern/ so werden sie lind vnd weich/ schneidt sie voneinander/ vnd druck den Safft vber das gehackt

                      then take fresh sour lemons/ roll them nicely between two cloths/ like this it becomes mild and soft/ cut it from one another/ and press the juice over the hash/ thus it becomes well tasting and good.

                      But the question was how to translate "truck" in reference to lemon juice. It doesn't make sense to say the juice is dry, press suits the sentence better. I'm not sure it makes sense to say "trucken" means "trocken" but "truck" means "drücken" or do they both have the same root?

                      Ranvaig
                    • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                      ... The word trucken is used for food served without a sauce, and truck for lemon juice, spelled just like that, definitely NOT druck in the text. That s
                      Message 10 of 30 , Nov 5, 2008
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                        >I think either you mis-typed the word in your German example or you somehow are thinking that "truck" and "druck" are the same word, which obviously they are not. It is obvious, to me at least, that "druck den Safft" means "press the juice".

                        The word "trucken" is used for food served without a sauce, and "truck" for lemon juice, spelled just like that, definitely NOT "druck" in the text. That's why I'm confused by it. It seems to mean "press the juice", but I didn't think I could justify translating "truck" as press.

                        Here is my original comment.

                        so truck saur Limoniensafft darauff

                        -- "truck" is from "trucken" or modernly "trocken" dry. I found similar usage "so weich jn in eine süsse Milch/ und wann er weich ist/ so wasch die Händ sauber/ und truck die Milch auß dem Weck" soak bread in milk and squeeze it dry. The sense seems to be squeezing a lemon dry over the meat.


                        Ranvaig
                      • Huette von Ahrens
                        I think either you mis-typed the word in your German example or you somehow are thinking that truck and druck are the same word, which obviously they are
                        Message 11 of 30 , Nov 5, 2008
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                          I think either you mis-typed the word in your German example or you somehow are thinking that "truck" and "druck" are the same word, which obviously they are not. It is obvious, to me at least, that "druck den Safft" means "press the juice".

                          Huette


                          --- On Tue, 11/4/08, ranvaig@... <ranvaig@...> wrote:

                          > From: ranvaig@... <ranvaig@...>
                          > Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Steinhüner
                          > To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                          > Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 5:05 PM
                          > >I am with Ranvaig in that "trucken" is a
                          > variation of "trocken" and means dry. But in
                          > trying to make sense to English speakers, I sometimes think
                          > that translating too literally can be confusing to those who
                          > don't understand German grammar. The idea that one
                          > serves this dish "dry" bothers me because
                          > "dry" sounds unappetizing to me. If I were the
                          > translator, I would change the meaning to "plain".
                          > Serve it plain or with a sauce. Otherwise someone might
                          > make this dish without any moisture and that would be awful.
                          > YMMV.
                          >
                          > Yes "trucken" means without a sauce, and I think
                          > I will add that in parentheses.
                          >
                          > so nim~ frische saure Limonien/ walger sei fein zwischen
                          > zweyen Tüchern/ so werden sie lind vnd weich/ schneidt sie
                          > voneinander/ vnd druck den Safft vber das gehackt
                          >
                          > then take fresh sour lemons/ roll them nicely between two
                          > cloths/ like this it becomes mild and soft/ cut it from one
                          > another/ and press the juice over the hash/ thus it becomes
                          > well tasting and good.
                          >
                          > But the question was how to translate "truck" in
                          > reference to lemon juice. It doesn't make sense to say
                          > the juice is dry, press suits the sentence better. I'm
                          > not sure it makes sense to say "trucken" means
                          > "trocken" but "truck" means
                          > "drücken" or do they both have the same root?
                          >
                          > Ranvaig
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                        • ranvaig@columbus.rr.com
                          ... The plot thickens. I ve been translating some of the menus, and the menus only use drucken while the recipes use trucken . I ve noticed other
                          Message 12 of 30 , Nov 6, 2008
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                            >I think either you mis-typed the word in your German example or you somehow are thinking that "truck" and "druck" are the same word, which obviously they are not. It is obvious, to me at least, that "druck den Safft" means "press the juice".

                            The plot thickens. I've been translating some of the menus, and the menus only use "drucken" while the recipes use "trucken". I've noticed other differences between the spelling of the menus and the recipes.


                            Ein gebraten Indianischen Hanen warm/ drucken geben auff den Tisch.
                            A roasted Indian Hen (turkey) warm/ given dry? on the table.

                            Item was zu jeglichem Gebratens gehort/ so drucken auff den Tisch kompt/ Als Salsen von Weichselsafft/ Oliuen/ Pomerantzen/ kleine Carpern/ oder saure Limonien/ fein breit geschnitten vnd wol gezuckert.
                            Item what belongs to every Roast/ which comes dry? to the table/ such as sauce from sour cherry juice/ olives/ seville oranges/ small capers/ or sour lemons/ cut nicely wide and well sugared.

                            Ein Kälbern Braten gespickt/ vnd drucken auff den Tisch geben warm.
                            A veal roast larded/ and dry? given warm on the table.

                            Drucken abgesotten Forellen.
                            Hecht drucken abgesotten.
                            Sälmling drucken abgesotten.
                            in frisch Styrlein blaw vnd drucken abgesotten/ mit Saltz.
                            Karpffen drucken abgesotten.
                            Gefüllte Eyer gebacken/ vnd drucken auff den Tisch geben warm.

                            --- the recipes
                            Ochsen 15.... und gibs also trucken/ oder mach ein Mandelgescharb/ das gelb und süß ist/ darunter/

                            Ochsen 31. ...Und wann du sie wilt anrichten/ so nimm es auß mit einem Faumlöffel/ besträuw es mit Pfeffer und Salz/ so bleibt es trucken/ gibs warm auf ein Tisch/

                            Ochsen 42. Schneidt den Lungenbraten von einem Ochsen auß/ schneidt die Adern hinweg/ daß er fein
                            dünn wirdt/ und zerklopf jhn mit einem Messerrück/ und leg jn auf ein sauber Bret/ klaub
                            trucken Rindtfeißt/ und hack es mit grünen Kräutern/ Feldtkümmel/ Pfeffer und Ingwer/ thu
                            ein wenig Salz darzu/ und meng es durcheinander/ sträw es uber das Fleisch/ und wickels
                            ubereinander/ steck es an ein Spieß/ und brat es wohl/ zeuchs ab/ und thu es in ein kleins
                            Fischkesselein/ setz mit Rindtfleischbrühe/ die nicht versalzen ist/ und Pettersilgen Wurzel/
                            zu/ mach es saur oder nicht/ so ist es gut und wohl geschmack.

                            Ochsen 51. ... laß darmit/ sampt ein wenig gestossen Pfeffer/ trucken einsieden/

                            Ochsen 61. ...truckne jn mit einem saubern Tuch/
                            .... und hencks in kein Schornstein/ sondern in Rauch/ da kein Hitz zugehet/ daß sie trucknet/

                            Lachs 15. ... oder ein Gehack gemacht / mit kleinen schwartzen Rosein / und mit Gewürz angemacht / mit Zimmt/ Safran / und ein wenig Essig darein gegossen / und süß gemacht mit Zucker / laß es fein trucken einsieden / thu ein wenig frische Butter darein / sampt der Erbstbrüh / und laß damit fein trucken einsieden /
                            or make a hash/ with small black raisins/ and mixed with spices/ with cinnamon/ saffron/ and a little vinegar poured in/ and make sweet (süß) with sugar/ let it cook until dry/

                            --- but here "druck" does mean "pressed"

                            Zugehörung 5. Saur Pomeranzen Saft. Wenn man die Pomeranzen außdruckt / macht man den Saft an mit
                            Zimt und Zucker / kalt zu dem Braten gegeben / ist gut und wohl geschmack.
                            Sour Seville orange juice. When one presses out the seville orange/ one makes the juice with cinnamon and sugar/ given cold to the roast/ is good and well tasting.


                            Gebackens 60. Nimm weissen Tragant/ und weich jn in Rosenwasser ein/ drucks durch ein Härin Tuch/
                            Take white Gum Tragacanth/ and soften it in rose water/ and press through a hair cloth/

                            Gebackens 73. ...treibs fein auß mit einem Walger/ oder drucks in einem Model/ der rundt ist/
                            Take almonds/ that are nicely peeled/ and soaked overnight in a water. Grind the almonds with sugar/ that they become a dough/ put it on a wafer/ and take a little rosewater on it/ drive nicely out with a roller/ or press in a mold/ that is round/

                            Turten 17. Spenat Turten. Nimm Spenat / und quell jn / druck jn wohl auß / und hack jhn klein / reib
                            Parmesankäß und Weck darunter / auch Muscatennüß / gestossenen Pfeffer und Eidotter /
                            und frische ungeschmältzte Butter. Rür das alles durcheinander / und versalz es nicht.
                            Mach die Füll in ein Turten / und mach kein Deck darüber / wenns gebacken ist / so gibs
                            gantz / oder zerschneidts zu stücken / wie du es haben wilt.

                            Turten 27. Nimm Kapskraut / und quells / drucks wohl auß dem Wasser / und hacks klein / druck die
                            Brühe wohl darvon hinweg / und mach das Kraut mit saurem Rahm ab / mit Eidottern
                            und guter frischer Butter. Und also macht man die Füll von weissem Kraut / und man
                            nennet es ein Kraut Turten von frischem weissen Kraut.
                          • xina007eu
                            ... and means dry. But in trying to make sense to English speakers, I sometimes think that translating too literally can be confusing to those who don t
                            Message 13 of 30 , Nov 6, 2008
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                              --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, ranvaig@... wrote:
                              >
                              > >I am with Ranvaig in that "trucken" is a variation of "trocken"
                              and means dry. But in trying to make sense to English speakers, I
                              sometimes think that translating too literally can be confusing to
                              those who don't understand German grammar. The idea that one serves
                              this dish "dry" bothers me because "dry" sounds unappetizing to me.
                              If I were the translator, I would change the meaning to "plain".
                              Serve it plain or with a sauce. Otherwise someone might make this
                              dish without any moisture and that would be awful. YMMV.
                              >
                              > Yes "trucken" means without a sauce, and I think I will add that in
                              parentheses.
                              >
                              > so nim~ frische saure Limonien/ walger sei fein zwischen zweyen
                              Tüchern/ so werden sie lind vnd weich/ schneidt sie voneinander/ vnd
                              druck den Safft vber das gehackt
                              >
                              > then take fresh sour lemons/ roll them nicely between two cloths/
                              like this it becomes mild and soft/ cut it from one another/ and
                              press the juice over the hash/ thus it becomes well tasting and good.
                              >
                              > But the question was how to translate "truck" in reference to lemon
                              juice. It doesn't make sense to say the juice is dry, press suits
                              the sentence better. I'm not sure it makes sense to say "trucken"
                              means "trocken" but "truck" means "drücken" or do they both have the
                              same root?
                              >
                              > Ranvaig
                              >

                              Hi Ranvaig,

                              If we have something like:
                              so truck saur Limoniensafft darauff

                              we can see that we are dealing with an instruction (an imperative
                              sentence) and that "truck" is a verb, or more precisely, the
                              imperative form of a verb. It cannot be a variant of "trocken"
                              because the verb "to dry" in German is "trocknen", which would have
                              an imperative form "trockne". This leaves us with the conclusion that
                              it is a spelling variant of the verb that in modern German would have
                              the spelling "drücken".

                              German is a highly inflected language. In German, nouns, verbs and
                              adjectives have endings, and these give the reader a clue about what
                              kind of word we are dealing with. "Truck" is simply not a form of the
                              adjective "trucken". But it is the imperative form of the
                              verb "trucken".

                              According to the Grimms, "drücken" and "trocken" do not have the same
                              root.

                              Best regards,

                              Christina
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