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Hirsch 37. Unborn fawn

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  • Sharon Palmer
    This is a recipe for an unborn fawn. There are still a few rough places, if you can suggest a better translation, I d appreciate it. This one also uses einem
    Message 1 of 12 , Sep 22, 2011
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      This is a recipe for an unborn fawn. There are
      still a few rough places, if you can suggest a
      better translation, I'd appreciate it.

      This one also uses "einem stück Wildt/". I had
      taken "Wildt" as a short form for Wildpret or
      game, but seems that this refers to a female deer.
      Ranvaig


      Hirsch 37. Laß dir das nicht seltzam seyn/ daß
      von einem stück Wildt/ das gefangen ist worden/
      vnd ein Kalb in jr gehabt/ daß auch nicht recht
      zeitig ist gewesen/ ichs von stundt an hab herauß
      genommen/ vnnd flugs das Häutlein herab gezogen/
      in einem kalten Wasser außgewaschen/ außgeweidt
      vnd
      << XLIIII (HAB 188 ) >>

      eyngesaltzen/ flugs angesteckt/ gebraten/ vnd also gantz auff ein Tisch geben.

      37. Let that not be strange to you/ that from a
      piece of game/ that is caught/ and it has a calf
      in it/ that also not too early/ I have
      immediately taken it out/ and quickly pull the
      caul down/ wash off in a cold water/ disembowel
      and salt/ quickly stick (on a spit)/ roast and
      give thus whole on a table

      Also hab ichs vor die Jungen Herrn von
      Oesterreich zugericht. Es würde wol mancher
      schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
      besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran. Ist aber ein
      gute herrliche Speise/ wenn man sie recht
      zurichtet/ kans einer fast mit Fleisch vnd Beinen
      essen/ so mürb ist es.

      Thus I have prepared it for the young lords of
      Austria. It would well many poor farmers not eat
      it??/ would obtain/ it eat the dead??. But it is
      a good lordly dish/ when one prepares it
      correctly/ can eat any?? with meat and bones/ it
      is so tender.
    • emilio szabo
      Also hab ichs vor die Jungen Herrn von Oesterreich zugericht. In this way I have prepared it ... Es würde wol mancher schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/
      Message 2 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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        Also hab ichs vor die Jungen Herrn von
        Oesterreich zugericht.


        In this way I have prepared it ...



        Es würde wol mancher
        schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
        besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.


        I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating from it.



        wenn man sie recht
        zurichtet/ kans einer fast mit Fleisch vnd Beinen
        essen/ so mürb ist es.



        If one prepares it appropriately, one can certainly/well eat it with flesh and bones, so tender/mellow is it.


        E.


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Cat .
        I think I would translate fast as almost (eat the meat with the bones) rather than well/certainly. Gwen fascinated by these Cat ... [Non-text portions of
        Message 3 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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          I think I would translate 'fast' as almost (eat the meat with the bones) rather than well/certainly.

          Gwen fascinated by these Cat



          >________________________________
          >From: emilio szabo <emilio_szabo@...>
          >To: "cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com" <cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com>
          >Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:49 AM
          >Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Hirsch 37. Unborn fawn
          >
          >

          >
          >
          >Also hab ichs vor die Jungen Herrn von
          >Oesterreich zugericht.
          >
          >In this way I have prepared it ...
          >
          >Es würde wol mancher
          >schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
          >besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
          >
          >I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating from it.
          >
          >wenn man sie recht
          >zurichtet/ kans einer fast mit Fleisch vnd Beinen
          >essen/ so mürb ist es.
          >
          >If one prepares it appropriately, one can certainly/well eat it with flesh and bones, so tender/mellow is it.
          >
          >E.
          >
          >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Sharon Palmer
          ... Perhaps it should be that he would fear to eat the death from it . Although I don t see why the unborn fawn is any deader than the mother, says the
          Message 4 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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            >Es würde wol mancher
            >schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
            >besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
            >
            >I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from
            >it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating
            >from it.

            Perhaps it should be that he "would fear to eat the death from it".
            Although I don't see why the unborn fawn is any
            deader than the mother, says the vegetarian.

            Ranvaig
          • Cat .
            I would assume some sort of issue with it never having been alive in the first place...(though not a student of religion or that type of taboo) Gwen Cat ...
            Message 5 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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              I would assume some sort of issue with it never having been alive in the first place...(though not a student of religion or that type of taboo)

              Gwen Cat



              >________________________________
              >From: Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...>
              >To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
              >Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 1:03 PM
              >Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Hirsch 37. Unborn fawn
              >
              >

              >>Es würde wol mancher
              >>schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
              >>besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
              >>
              >>I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from
              >>it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating
              >>from it.
              >
              >Perhaps it should be that he "would fear to eat the death from it".
              >Although I don't see why the unborn fawn is any
              >deader than the mother, says the vegetarian.
              >
              >Ranvaig
              >
              >
              >
              >

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • wheezul@canby.com
              I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before he uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the he would feed
              Message 6 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before he
                uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the he
                would feed (animal sense) on death from it? Maybe 'feed on death' is a
                saying?

                Katherine, now curious if there is such a thing as a Todtfresser

                >>Es würde wol mancher
                >>schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
                >>besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
                >>
                >>I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from
                >>it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating
                >>from it.
                >
                > Perhaps it should be that he "would fear to eat the death from it".
                > Although I don't see why the unborn fawn is any
                > deader than the mother, says the vegetarian.
                >
                > Ranvaig
                >
              • wheezul@canby.com
                Yes, there is such a thing as a todfresser (from Grimm): todfresser, m.: sie predigen von Christo, das er der einige gesetzwürger, sündentreger, todfresser
                Message 7 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                  Yes, there is such a thing as a todfresser (from Grimm):

                  todfresser, m.: sie predigen von Christo, das er der einige gesetzwürger,
                  sündentreger, todfresser und teufelsmörder sei. Luther 6, 483b, vgl. Jes.
                  25, 8.

                  Hmmm.

                  Katherine

                  > I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before he
                  > uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the he
                  > would feed (animal sense) on death from it? Maybe 'feed on death' is a
                  > saying?
                  >
                  > Katherine, now curious if there is such a thing as a Todtfresser
                  >
                  >>>Es würde wol mancher
                  >>>schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
                  >>>besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
                  >>>
                  >>>I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from
                  >>>it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating
                  >>>from it.
                  >>
                  >> Perhaps it should be that he "would fear to eat the death from it".
                  >> Although I don't see why the unborn fawn is any
                  >> deader than the mother, says the vegetarian.
                  >>
                  >> Ranvaig
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Carowyn Silveroak
                  A fresser in Pennsylvania Dutch means a person who gobbles food. Whereas fresser in Yiddish, which looks to have split off from German about the same time
                  Message 8 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                    A "fresser" in Pennsylvania Dutch means a person who gobbles food.
                    Whereas "fresser" in Yiddish, which looks to have split off from German
                    about the same time that PA Dutch did....well, it sorta means
                    "gobbling"....um....er....

                    -Carowyn ;-)



                    > I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before
                    > he uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the
                    > he would feed (animal sense) on death from it? Maybe 'feed on death'
                    > is a saying?
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                  • emilio_szabo
                    ... Well, this is the modern usage. I do not think that almost is meant in the passage. There is a passage in Henisch (early 17th century) that seems to
                    Message 9 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                      --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, "Cat ." <tgrcat2001@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I think I would translate 'fast' as almost (eat the meat with the bones) rather than well/certainly.


                      Well, this is the modern usage. I do not think that 'almost' is meant in the passage. There is a passage in Henisch (early 17th century) that seems to support my suggestion.

                      E.
                    • Dana Kramer-Rolls
                      I was taught at home that in Yiddish essen was to eat and fressen was to eat like an animal, so yes, gobble with no table manners or social niceties. Courtesy
                      Message 10 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                        I was taught at home that in Yiddish essen was to eat and fressen was to eat
                        like an animal, so yes, gobble with no table manners or social niceties.
                        Courtesy of my maternal grandmother, who also spoke German (and English and
                        Italian, and . . .amazing woman). Maythen



                        From: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                        [mailto:cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carowyn Silveroak
                        Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 2:42 PM
                        To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: Hirsch 37. Unborn fawn







                        A "fresser" in Pennsylvania Dutch means a person who gobbles food.
                        Whereas "fresser" in Yiddish, which looks to have split off from German
                        about the same time that PA Dutch did....well, it sorta means
                        "gobbling"....um....er....

                        -Carowyn ;-)

                        > I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before
                        > he uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the
                        > he would feed (animal sense) on death from it? Maybe 'feed on death'
                        > is a saying?
                        __________________________________________________________
                        Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
                        Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • emilio_szabo
                        ... If you replace should be by could be , I d certainly agree. There are many ways to render a piece of text. One proposal more literal, another one more
                        Message 11 of 12 , Sep 23, 2011
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                          --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > >Es würde wol mancher
                          > >schlechter Bauwr nicht darvon essen/ würde
                          > >besorgen/ er freß den Todt daran.
                          > >
                          > >I guess, many a simple farmer would not eat from
                          > >it, he would fear to cause his dead by eating
                          > >from it.
                          >
                          > Perhaps it should be that he "would fear to eat the death from it".


                          If you replace "should be" by "could be", I'd certainly agree.

                          There are many ways to render a piece of text. One proposal more literal, another one more paraphrastic, the third one ... Certainly, I am not a native speaker nor writer of English. So, go ahead ...


                          Anyway: Try to explain what is meant by "to eat the death from something". Which kind of paraphrase would you suggest?


                          E.
                        • xina007eu
                          Actually, Yiddish and Modern High German split some time during the Middle Ages, they both developed out of Middle High German. Pennsylvania Dutch goes back to
                          Message 12 of 12 , Sep 29, 2011
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                            Actually, Yiddish and Modern High German split some time during the Middle Ages, they both developed out of Middle High German. Pennsylvania Dutch goes back to an 18th century southwestern High German dialect.

                            But even in modern German, fressen = to eat (said of an animal, e.g. "Die Pferde fressen Heu" = the horses are eating hay). When it's said of people it means to gobble, to eat in an unmannerly way. It is quite rude.

                            And I thought the stuff about the fish entrails was gross, but eating an unborn fawn definitely beats it. Yuckkkkk.

                            Best regards,

                            Christina

                            --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, Carowyn Silveroak <silveroak@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > A "fresser" in Pennsylvania Dutch means a person who gobbles food.
                            > Whereas "fresser" in Yiddish, which looks to have split off from German
                            > about the same time that PA Dutch did....well, it sorta means
                            > "gobbling"....um....er....
                            >
                            > -Carowyn ;-)
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > > I think it is interesting that he uses fressen, while the line before
                            > > he uses essen, both referring to the farmer. Maybe the sense is the
                            > > he would feed (animal sense) on death from it? Maybe 'feed on death'
                            > > is a saying?
                            > ____________________________________________________________
                            > Penny Stock Jumping 3000%
                            > Sign up to the #1 voted penny stock newsletter for free today!
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