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Re: [cooking_rumpolt] herberg

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  • Carowyn Silveroak
    ... My thought is that they did it as sort of an enforced hookie, to take a break every now and again. I always found it suspicious that my Grenny made it on
    Message 1 of 21 , Apr 4, 2011
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      > I wonder if they did things like that outside. Surely there was too
      > much going on in the kitchen for everyone to leave. Maybe they just
      > put up with it.


      My thought is that they did it as sort of an enforced hookie, to take a
      break every now and again. I always found it suspicious that my Grenny
      made it on those lovely warm days in spring or fall, which is an odd time
      to make it....

      (unsolicited family story follows)

      There were certain days / times when the adage "a change is as good as a
      rest" also came into play: one was Fasnacht Day, one was Chow-chow Day,
      one was Butcher Day. Each time, it was Known that the "menfolk" had to
      fend for themselves for lunch. Sliced meats, cheeses, bread, and
      condiments were right in the fridge, they could sneak in the back door to
      grab it without getting in the way, no big deal. Except the day my
      Pop-pop forgot, and demanded his "rights"....and the women revolted on
      him, and he was (literally) led around by the ear and taught how to use
      the microwave to make a hot dog, and sent off in disgrace. Funny enough,
      he wasn't allowed to touch that year's chow-chow. He learned...

      >These days you can buy sausage casings all nicely cleaned, but then
      >you had to clean them yourself, which must be a pretty nasty job, but
      >you want them *really* clean.

      Only Grenny was allowed to do that job - she could do it without getting
      holes in the casings. It's not the worst job, because with the pigs the
      casings we used were still filled with partially digested grain. I
      helped turn them inside-out, and it wasn't as nasty as it could have
      been.

      Making scrapple, on the other hand, (and the lung-sausage looks darn
      close!), can make people turn green.

      -Carowyn



      > >This reminds me very much of our family's recipe for tripe (pickled
      > >cow's stomach): [skipping a bit] prepare, drop in a pot of boiling
      water,
      > > run away. When you can stand the smell enough to get back in the
      > > house, it's done.

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    • xina007eu
      I d say it s a metaphor rather than a euphemism, in the sense that it s not a meaning you d find in a dictionary, but one that only becomes clear from the
      Message 2 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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        I'd say it's a metaphor rather than a euphemism, in the sense that it's not a meaning you'd find in a dictionary, but one that only becomes clear from the context.

        Best regards,

        Christina

        --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, Sharon Palmer <ranvaig@...> wrote:
        >
        > >gast = literally guest, it seems to be a euphemism for the inside of
        > >the intestines, also see "herberg"
        >
        > Oops, should be
        >
        > gast = literally guest, it seems to be a euphemism for the contents of
        > the intestines, also see "herberg
        >
        > Ranvaig
        >
      • wheezul@canby.com
        Recently in preparing for my upcoming class I had read in some 19th century work that there was a second 16th century cookbook from the Austrian court that was
        Message 3 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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          Recently in preparing for my upcoming class I had read in some 19th
          century work that there was a second 16th century cookbook from the
          Austrian court that was the work of Catharine Gonzaga. I thought maybe
          the author was confused with Phillipine Welser, but further searching on
          google books brought to light a brief notation about the 2nd court
          cookbook, but that it was actually associated with Anna of Austria. I
          ordered the book “Der Innsbrucker Hof : Residenz und ho¨fische
          Gesellschaft in Tirol vom 15. bis 19. Jahrhundert” and it gave me another
          direction to look in an older Austrian journal.

          That journal article came today, and I thought I’d share the general
          information given in the article in case anyone was interested. The
          citation for the article:

          Article Title: Ein Furstliches Kochbuch von 1589
          Article Author: Schadelbauer, Karl
          Journal Title: Tiroler heimatbla¨tter : Monatshefte fu¨r Geschichte,
          Natur-und Volkskunde
          Volume: 5
          Journal Year: 1927

          The article tells that in 1927 there was a cookbook in Codex #149 in the
          manuscript collection. The title inscription:
          “Khoch Buech Der Durchleichtigisten Furstin vnd Freilein Ertzhertzogin
          Anna zu O:sterreich, Hertzogin zu Burgund etc. meiner gnedigisten Fu:rstin
          vnd Frevlein vnderthenig vnnd gehorsamister bericht, was in Irer Fr. Durch
          meines gnedigistenherresnhoffmundtkhuch durch das gantze Jar von allerlai
          vleisch, gflugl, vischen, obst, ayrn vnd khreittern auch jeder Sortt
          insonderhait fur Speisen zueberaittet vnd gekhocht warden, wie in disem
          Puech ordentlich auf einander volgt vnd begriffen ist, vollgt. 1589”

          There are 401 leaves with 651 recipes divided into 27 chapters.
          1. Von Rintvleisch
          2. Kelbrens
          3. Castrattnes
          4. Lembres vnd Khutzens
          5. Haimbishce Schwein
          6. Hirsches
          7. Hafn oder Khu:nigl.
          8. Von Waltgeflu:gl.
          9. Von Hasl: Reg: Stain: vnd Grieshienner.
          10. Indianische Hannen.
          11. Wilte: Haimbishche vnd Tirtl Tauben.
          12. Von groszen vnd clain vo:gln.
          13. Von Copaunern.
          14. Von Jungen Hiennern.
          15. Verttzaichnus der Arbeszn, Khrauts vnd Gersten an Flischta:gen.
          Vertzaichnus Allerlai Visch.
          16. Hausn.
          17. Schaidn vnd Waller.
          18. Von Ho:chten.
          19. Von Kha:rpfen.
          20. Huchen.
          21. Von Capserhen vnd andrn groszen vnd clain fergen.
          22. Von Khrebszen.
          23. Von Mo:hr Vischen
          24. Von Allerlai Schwamben
          25. Allerlei Suppen an Fastagen vnd was man sonst von Arbeszen Khocht.
          26. Was von Ayrn, Schmaltz vnd milch zu khochen ist.
          27. Von Mandln.
          Sadly only one recipe is given – it is for calf prepared in a yellow soup
          with onions.

          I looked to see if Thomas Gloning had listed it in his bibliography, but I
          didn't locate it at first look. I also failed to find it on Innsbruck’s
          library site, so I wrote the librarian. My ultimate dream would be for
          them to digitize it for everyone.

          And I'm still pretty young at the historical cooking game, so this could
          be old news...

          Katherine
        • emilio
          ... It seems that the manuscript is still in the Innsbruck library: http://manuscripta.at/?ID=7730 E.
          Message 4 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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            --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, wheezul@... wrote:
            > The article tells that in 1927 there was a cookbook in Codex #149 in the
            > manuscript collection.


            It seems that the manuscript is still in the Innsbruck library:


            http://manuscripta.at/?ID=7730


            E.
          • emilio
            ... I forgot to say one thing: WONDERFUL! Thanks for sharing. E.
            Message 5 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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              --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, wheezul@... wrote:
              >
              > Recently in preparing for my upcoming class I had read in some 19th
              > century work that there was a second 16th century cookbook from the
              > Austrian court


              I forgot to say one thing:


              WONDERFUL! Thanks for sharing.


              E.
            • wheezul@canby.com
              I NEED it for my own! Zur Sprache in Kochbüchern des späten Mittelalters und der frühen Neuzeit - ein fachkundliches Wörterbuch by Gundolf Keil
              Message 6 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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                I NEED it for my own!

                "Zur Sprache in Kochbüchern des späten Mittelalters und der frühen Neuzeit
                - ein fachkundliches Wörterbuch" by Gundolf Keil

                "Einmachen o. setzem. V.
                >>etw. in einer best. Marinade ineinem Gefäß einlegen, zur Aufbewahrung o.
                Schmackhaftnachung<< (VGL. DWB 3/229)" the source in this case is
                Grimm.

                Then several examples of einmachen are given from different cookbooks.

                Were we discussing einschlagen? I had to laugh when I saw >>einmachen<<
                as a definition. An "einschlag" also had a definition as a piece of
                paper or cloth that laid over the meat with a marinade. Come to think of
                it that's the Martha Stuart method of cooking Thanksgiving turkey.

                Priseindel has some clues although it uses Rumpolt to define the word, but
                confirms my suspicion that the word is Italian:

                >>It. Rumpolt-Rezep eine Art "Geschnetzeltes" von Rind bzw. Kalbfleisch,
                welches vor dem Braten in Essig eingelegt wird<<. BDV. >brisille<.

                Then following along is the definition for brisille, presole, f.
                >>eine bes. Art Kalbsbraten<<. (Schmeller)

                Just guessing but maybe the Italian word Braciola is related?

                Anything else I could look up?

                Katherine (who should be writing and not running around with nose in
                dictionary going squee! squee!)
              • Sharon Palmer
                ... I find it interesting that the chapters are in much the same order as Rumpolt. ... Is the text available here? I couldn t get it to work. Ranvaig
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 5, 2011
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                  >
                  >There are 401 leaves with 651 recipes divided into 27 chapters.

                  I find it interesting that the chapters are in much the same order as Rumpolt.

                  :
                  >http://manuscripta.at/?ID=7730

                  Is the text available here? I couldn't get it to work.

                  Ranvaig
                • emilio
                  ... No, as far as I can see, this is only a catalogue entry, saying that the manuscript is extant. E.
                  Message 8 of 21 , Apr 6, 2011
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                    > >http://manuscripta.at/?ID=7730
                    >
                    > Is the text available here? I couldn't get it to work.
                    >
                    > Ranvaig

                    No, as far as I can see, this is only a catalogue entry, saying that the manuscript is extant.


                    E.
                  • emilio
                    ... I think Keil is the editor of the series, the author of the book is Sabine Bunsmann-Hopf. ... If I remember well there are other cases of einmachen in a
                    Message 9 of 21 , Apr 6, 2011
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                      > "Zur Sprache in Kochbüchern des späten Mittelalters und der frühen Neuzeit
                      > - ein fachkundliches Wörterbuch" by Gundolf Keil


                      I think Keil is the editor of the series, the author of the book is Sabine Bunsmann-Hopf.


                      > "Einmachen o. setzem. V.
                      > >>etw. in einer best. Marinade ineinem Gefäß einlegen, zur Aufbewahrung o.
                      > Schmackhaftnachung<< (VGL. DWB 3/229)" the source in this case is
                      > Grimm.


                      If I remember well there are other cases of "einmachen" in a confect context where no marinade is used.


                      E.
                    • wheezul@canby.com
                      Hi, Revisiting the Anna of Austria Cookbook - I ve heard back from the library. They advised that either a digital or microfilm copy is available from the
                      Message 10 of 21 , Apr 7, 2011
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                        Hi,

                        Revisiting the Anna of Austria Cookbook - I've heard back from the
                        library. They advised that either a digital or microfilm copy is
                        available from the Hill Museum and Manuscript Library in Minnesota.

                        If one is nearby one can look at the copy for free at the library, but if
                        you want a copy for scholarly research, one is also available for $65 plus
                        shipping.

                        The website:

                        http://www.hmml.org/research2010/catalog/mss_search.asp

                        Search by city: Innsbruck
                        Library: Universitätsbibliothek
                        Selfmark: 149

                        I'm saving my morning caffeine drink money to get a copy! And I never
                        even knew about this resource. Oooooo, shiny!

                        Katherine
                        >
                        >
                        >> >http://manuscripta.at/?ID=7730
                        >>
                        >> Is the text available here? I couldn't get it to work.
                        >>
                        >> Ranvaig
                        >
                        > No, as far as I can see, this is only a catalogue entry, saying that the
                        > manuscript is extant.
                        >
                        >
                        > E.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
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