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514Re: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt

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  • Cat .
    Mar 12, 2010
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      Hi Christina

      thanks for posting.  This rings true to me.  I was thinking of because vine leaves fall (thinking we have the vines. so lets use the leaves...)  and your answer  makes sense both in that context and in the use of the words.

      THANKS
      Gwen Cat




      ________________________________
      From: xina007eu <Christina_Lemke@...>
      To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 11:20:01 AM
      Subject: [cooking_rumpolt] Re: OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt

       


      --- In cooking_rumpolt@ yahoogroups. com, lilinah@... wrote:
      >
      > I hope it is not inappropriate to post this here. It's 16th c. German
      > and about food, but not from Rumpolt...
      >
      > I'm teaching a class on 15th and 16th c. Ottoman cooking very soon.
      > Stuffed vine leaves do not show up in Ottoman cookbooks until the
      > 18th or 19th century. However, Hans Dernschwam mentions them in his
      > account of his visit to Kostantaniye (Ottoman for Constantinople) in
      > the late 16th c.
      >
      > Here is his description from Thomas Gloning's site
      > http://www.uni- giessen.de/ gloning/tx/ dernfood. htm
      >
      > Item, schaffen flaisch, klain gehagt, des thut man ein loffel
      > voller auff ein wein plat, wigkelt man zusamen wie ein krapffen.
      > Daruntter hagt man auch sawere pflawmen, sewdt man allein
      > im wasser ab, das sol bey inen auch ein guth, herlich gericht
      > sein vnd hot darzw die wein pletter vberal fail.
      >
      > I've got it *very roughly* translated, up the last two lines, where i
      >

      Hi all,

      I think the "fail" in "hot darzw die wein pletter vberal fail"
      is the same as "feil" in e.g. the old-fashioned terms "feilbieten" - to offer for sale, "wohlfeil sein" - to be available at a low price.

      So my guess is that "hot darzw die wein pletter vberal fail"
      means something like "in addition, vine leaves are available everywhere". "Es hat" is South German dialect for standard German "es gibt".
      See the Grimm dictionary entry about "feil":
      "1) feil sein: die sache ist feil, nicht feil, zu haben, nicht zu haben"
      Wonderful phonetic spelling, by the way, also in the other quotation :-)

      Best regards,

      Christina







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