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505Re: [cooking_rumpolt] OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt

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  • Cat .
    Mar 9, 2010
      to perhaps clarify 'dish' versus 'arrangement' let me quote this paragraph from the same text::

      Die turkhen essen vnd siczen alle auff der erden vnd, darnachs
      jeder vermag, auff die erden ein dakhen ader tebich vndergepraith,
      siczen sy zw rings herumb, haben khain tisch. Wer es
      vermag, der brait ein sophra auff, das ist ein rund leder,
      darauff seczt er ein braitte hulczene ader kupffrene, verzintte,
      flache schussel, dorein seczt man ein gericht ader 2 ader 3,
      darczw broth vnd loffell; nent man syney. Khain thischtuch
      praucht man nicht, sunder wan mans herlich will haltten, zw
      rundt vmb ein lang handtuch; das nent man peschkor.

      specifically the sentence: "Wer es vermag, der brait ein sophra auff, das ist ein rund leder, darauff seczt er ein braitte hulczene ader kupffrene, verzintte,
      flache schussel, dorein seczt man ein gericht ader 2 ader 3,darczw broth vnd loffell; nent man syney. "

      "Who so wishes, spreads out a sophra, that is a round leather, thereon he sets a wide woodern or copper, tinned flat bowl, therein one sets one dish or 2 or 3, thereto bread and spoon, one calls (this) syney."

      The rest of the sentence mentions they sit on the ground (or on cloths or small rugs) and have no table, do not need a table cloth and if they want it to be 'fancy' (or lordly) they use a long towled (hand cloth) that is called a peschkor.

      In service and curiosity
      Gwen Cat



       



      ________________________________
      From: "wheezul@..." <wheezul@...>
      To: cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Tue, March 9, 2010 11:27:36 AM
      Subject: Re: [cooking_rumpolt] OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt

       
      > I disagree with your interpretation of gericht.  Yes, Gericht is court of
      > law, and gericht is associated with right/correctness, BUT in this case
      > 'ein gericht' is 'a dish' as in prepared food.  I do not think the
      > definition has changed from then to modern.

      In terms of meaning that it is 'a dish' the word's nuance is that it is
      the "arrangement" (and not the food itself per se) and it also related to
      the word 'right' or correctness. I could see why you might want to choose
      that term. Conceptually though, there is still a somewhat similar nuance
      of meaning. There are 29 definitions of the noun gericht. Most of them
      relate to the concept of right as either correctness of form or legal
      right. I do not find the idea of gericht as a dish incongruent with the
      meaning I think the sentence fragment holds (i.e. is it a good
      arrangement, correct, done?)
      >
      > As for who the ihnen refers to I would lean toward a particular people. 
      > not having seen how this fits in context I hesitate to guess, but if it is
      > part of a travel report then perhaps the ihnen are his hosts????

      It's really hard to say without reading other recipes or the entire text,
      but normally I find that hyperbole is at the beginning or the end of a
      recipe and not in the middle of the instructions. That the author
      announces it is a good lordly dish before telling you the degree of
      doneness of the leaves just doesn't make sense logically (and isn't
      frankly, very Germanic). Weirder things have been written, but I think I
      make a case for my translation. There is a problem with taking something
      out of context so more information might be gleaned from the surrounding
      paragraphs.

      Katherine







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