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495Re: OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt

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  • tgrcat2001
    Mar 9 9:36 AM
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      tried to send via yahoo mail but it seems to be eating outgoing mesages again... grrr

      I disagree with your interpretation of gericht. Yes, Gericht is court of law, and gericht is associated with right/correctness, BUT in this case 'ein gericht' is 'a dish' as in prepared food. I do not think the definition has changed from then to modern.

      As for who the ihnen refers to I would lean toward a particular people rather than the inanimate leaf rolls. Not having seen how this fits in context I hesitate to guess, but if it is part of a travel report then perhaps the ihnen are his hosts????

      In Service
      Gwen Cat

      --- In cooking_rumpolt@yahoogroups.com, wheezul@... wrote:
      >
      > >>Item, schaffen flaisch, klain gehagt, des thut man ein loffel
      > >>voller auff ein wein plat, wigkelt man zusamen wie ein krapffen.
      > >>Daruntter hagt man auch sawere pflawmen, sewdt man allein
      > >>im wasser ab, das sol bey inen auch ein guth, herlich gericht
      > >>sein vnd hot darzw die wein pletter vberal fail.
      > >
      >
      > This sentence seems to be a sticking point.
      >
      > das sol bey inen auch ein guth, herlich gericht
      > >>sein
      >
      > Let's analyze each word for nuance because as translators, especially ones
      > not fluent in the language from birth, tend to go with what matches our
      > perception and we don't understand the breadth of a word. Especially
      > since we are talking older forms.
      >
      > das = that
      > sol = sollen = should (in the sense of obligation)
      > bey = bei = by (in the sense of near perhaps)
      > inen = ihnen = here we need to determine what this pronoun is referring?
      > In some cases it can mean 'you' but the earlier form in the recipe uses
      > 'man' which is more the equivalent of using 'one'. It also is the word
      > for 'them' which I think makes more sense in the context of the
      > instructions as referring to the grape leaf packets.
      > auch = also, as well, in addition, too
      > ein = a or one
      > guth = gut = good (in the sense of quality)
      > herlich = herrlich = Grimm's worterbuch advises there are several meanings
      > to the word, but that in usage up to the 19th century it meant usually
      > lovely or pretty and was used to describe things like dishes and weather
      > or lovely girls, for example, in the medieval period. The word can also
      > mean lordly.
      > gericht = correctness (in terms of law - think of the English word 'right'
      > and 'rights' to get a sense of how to think of the term) "Machs recht" is
      > a very common statement in the cookbook I'm working in that I think means
      > to make as is correct or "until done".
      > sein = to be
      >
      > So let's put the concepts into English word order
      >
      > In addition that them (they) should be near a good lovely correctness
      >
      > which when I try to wrap my head around it may mean "until they look
      > correctly well done".
      >
      > Katherine
      >
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