495Re: OT: 16th c. German, not Rumpolt
- Mar 9 9:36 AMtried to send via yahoo mail but it seems to be eating outgoing mesages again... grrr
I disagree with your interpretation of gericht. Yes, Gericht is court of law, and gericht is associated with right/correctness, BUT in this case 'ein gericht' is 'a dish' as in prepared food. I do not think the definition has changed from then to modern.
As for who the ihnen refers to I would lean toward a particular people rather than the inanimate leaf rolls. Not having seen how this fits in context I hesitate to guess, but if it is part of a travel report then perhaps the ihnen are his hosts????
--- In email@example.com, wheezul@... wrote:
> >>Item, schaffen flaisch, klain gehagt, des thut man ein loffel
> >>voller auff ein wein plat, wigkelt man zusamen wie ein krapffen.
> >>Daruntter hagt man auch sawere pflawmen, sewdt man allein
> >>im wasser ab, das sol bey inen auch ein guth, herlich gericht
> >>sein vnd hot darzw die wein pletter vberal fail.
> This sentence seems to be a sticking point.
> das sol bey inen auch ein guth, herlich gericht
> Let's analyze each word for nuance because as translators, especially ones
> not fluent in the language from birth, tend to go with what matches our
> perception and we don't understand the breadth of a word. Especially
> since we are talking older forms.
> das = that
> sol = sollen = should (in the sense of obligation)
> bey = bei = by (in the sense of near perhaps)
> inen = ihnen = here we need to determine what this pronoun is referring?
> In some cases it can mean 'you' but the earlier form in the recipe uses
> 'man' which is more the equivalent of using 'one'. It also is the word
> for 'them' which I think makes more sense in the context of the
> instructions as referring to the grape leaf packets.
> auch = also, as well, in addition, too
> ein = a or one
> guth = gut = good (in the sense of quality)
> herlich = herrlich = Grimm's worterbuch advises there are several meanings
> to the word, but that in usage up to the 19th century it meant usually
> lovely or pretty and was used to describe things like dishes and weather
> or lovely girls, for example, in the medieval period. The word can also
> mean lordly.
> gericht = correctness (in terms of law - think of the English word 'right'
> and 'rights' to get a sense of how to think of the term) "Machs recht" is
> a very common statement in the cookbook I'm working in that I think means
> to make as is correct or "until done".
> sein = to be
> So let's put the concepts into English word order
> In addition that them (they) should be near a good lovely correctness
> which when I try to wrap my head around it may mean "until they look
> correctly well done".
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