Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

CIPA and wireless

Expand Messages
  • Midwestern Yankee
    Public libraries here and there are offering free wireless internet access in addition to the usual plugged-in internet workstations. Does CIPA require them
    Message 1 of 23 , Jul 5, 2005
      Public libraries here and there are offering free
      wireless internet access in addition to the usual
      plugged-in internet workstations. Does CIPA require
      them to filter this wireless service they way they do
      when using networked PCs? Is it even possible?



      ____________________________________________________
      Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great items.
      http://auctions.yahoo.com/
    • Clinton Lowery
      The way that I understand it, and the way that it functions here in our system is that if you are utilizing our connection, our network, then your laptop is
      Message 2 of 23 , Jul 6, 2005
        The way that I understand it, and the way that it
        functions here in our system is that if you are
        utilizing our connection, our network, then your
        laptop is subject to the same strictures that applies
        to the public pcs that are maintained on-site.

        This falls within CIPA's purview because the library's
        network is part of the operation of the library and
        may be partly funded by E-rate.

        I'm not sure how it's specifically put into action on
        a laptop. If the same firewall and filtering software
        are associated with the WAN & LAN IP ranges and
        gateways for the network are pulled by a laptop
        operating on the library's network, then it would have
        its Internet connection filtered and subject to the
        same regulations as a desktop pc in the library.

        You would probably have to look at the specific way
        that the filtering software operates and how it is
        applied to the network to verify if the filter applies
        to the wi-fi setup.


        Clinton Lowery, MLIS
        Integrated Library Systems
        Jacksonville Public Library (FL)

        -- JPL does not endorse the opinions expressed herein,
        nor would they want to if they were aware of them.



        --- Midwestern Yankee <midwesternyankee@...>
        wrote:

        > Public libraries here and there are offering free
        > wireless internet access in addition to the usual
        > plugged-in internet workstations. Does CIPA require
        > them to filter this wireless service they way they
        > do
        > when using networked PCs? Is it even possible?
        >
        >
        >
        > ____________________________________________________
        > Sell on Yahoo! Auctions – no fees. Bid on great
        > items.
        > http://auctions.yahoo.com/
        >
        >
        >
        >


        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
        http://mail.yahoo.com
      • Aiden
        Our library has turned into a three ring circus because of cell phones. They ring from all corners of the floor, and you can always hear a dozen patrons
        Message 3 of 23 , Jul 7, 2005
          Our library has turned into a three ring circus
          because of cell phones. They ring from all corners of
          the floor, and you can always hear a dozen patrons
          babbling loudly into their cell phones. Sometimes we
          can't even hear patrons on the other end of our phone.
          Our official policy is so nebulous it's worthless.
          Here is what our esteemed administration had to say
          regarding a question on cell phone use:

          "...I think it’s clear that cell phones are here to
          stay and that more and more people will be having
          simultaneous conversations with face to face and
          distant people whenever and wherever they are. In
          conversation distance means nothing and the ideas of
          many of us think as appropriate are blurring rapidly.
          Something that’s next: video screens built into
          everyday glasses, so that people can view the internet
          while they are also talking to you face to face and on
          their cell phones too! “

          Hardy Har Har! Yuck, Yuck, Yuck! What a cop out! In
          contrast, I visited a library out of state and on
          their front door was a prominent sign: "No Cell Phone
          Use in Library. All Cell Phones must be on Vibrate".
          I spoke to the head Librarian, and she said that cell
          phones had turned into a big problem, with the same
          sort of situation we have in my library. They went to
          the County managers, who agree that this was not
          appropriate for a library, and they instituted the "no
          cell phone" policy. This was the end of the problem.
          Indeed, during my visit there were no cell phone
          tones, and not a single person yapping on their cells.

          It must be truly great to live in a county that has
          some gumption.

          Best Regards,
          Aiden


          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
          http://mail.yahoo.com
        • astanfield@mindspring.com
          Reminds me of an educational institution I ve worked at where the student is considered the customer and faculty and staff are expected to provided good
          Message 4 of 23 , Jul 8, 2005
            Reminds me of an educational institution I've worked at where the student is considered "the customer" and faculty and staff are expected to provided good "customer service" to them. (Never mind the industries the school claims to be training the students to enter - which IF you had to name a customer of a school, it seems like that would be it.)

            Still - aren't libraries also supposed to educate patrons to some degree? I mean, when I was a kid, I used an "outside voice" in the library until someone taught me not to. What an asinine way to deal with new technology. It's supposed to make our lives BETTER not worse!

            A.
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Aiden <smersh43@...>
            Sent: Jul 7, 2005 8:43 PM
            To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [contrarianlibrarian] An Interesting Contrast

            <html><body>


            <tt>
              Our library has turned into a three ring circus<BR>
            because of cell phones.  They ring from all corners of<BR>
            the floor, and you can always hear a dozen patrons<BR>
            babbling loudly into their cell phones.  Sometimes we<BR>
            can't even hear patrons on the other end of our phone.<BR>
            Our official policy is so nebulous it's worthless. <BR>
            Here is what our esteemed administration had to say<BR>
            regarding a question on cell phone use: <BR>
            <BR>
            "...I think it’s clear that cell phones are here to<BR>
            stay and that more  and more people will be having<BR>
            simultaneous conversations with face to face and<BR>
            distant  people whenever and wherever they are. In<BR>
            conversation distance means nothing and the ideas of<BR>
            many of us think as appropriate are blurring rapidly. <BR>
            Something that’s next: video screens built into<BR>
            everyday glasses, so that people can view the internet<BR>
            while they are also talking to you face to face and on<BR>
            their cell phones too! “<BR>
            <BR>
            Hardy Har Har! Yuck, Yuck, Yuck!  What a cop out! In<BR>
            contrast, I visited a library out of state and on<BR>
            their front door was a prominent sign: "No Cell Phone<BR>
            Use in Library. All Cell Phones must be on Vibrate". <BR>
            I spoke to the head Librarian, and she said that cell<BR>
            phones had turned into a big problem, with the same<BR>
            sort of situation we have in my library.  They went to<BR>
            the County managers, who agree that this was not<BR>
            appropriate for a library, and they instituted the "no<BR>
            cell phone" policy.  This was the end of the problem.<BR>
            Indeed, during my visit there were no cell phone<BR>
            tones, and not a single person yapping on their cells.<BR>
               <BR>
              It must be truly great to live in a county that has<BR>
            some gumption.   <BR>
            <BR>
            Best Regards,<BR>
            Aiden<BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            __________________________________________________<BR>
            Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
            Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>
            <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</a> <BR>
            <BR>
            <BR>
            </tt>


            <?---- LSpots keywords ?>
            <?---- HM ADS ?>


            <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->


            <br>
            <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
            <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
            <tt>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS</tt>
            </div>
            <br>
            <ul>
            <tt><li type=square> Visit your group "<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrarianlibrarian">contrarianlibrarian</a>" on the web.<br> </tt>
            <tt><li type=square> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br> <a href="mailto:contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br> </tt>
            <tt><li type=square> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
            </ul>
            <br>
            <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
            <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
            </div>
            </br>

            <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


            </body></html>
          • laurieshaina@aol.com
            Even in my wimpy library we have a cell phone sign and still people try to ignore it and the staff will go over to them and ask them to step outside the
            Message 5 of 23 , Jul 9, 2005
              Even in my wimpy library we have a cell phone sign and still people try to
              ignore it and the staff will go over to them and ask them to step outside the
              building to talk or turn it off. Usually they comply. We however, had a policy
              about the public using OUR in house phones for emergencies only and then one
              day ONE person complained actually came to me and said "If the county is so
              broke and can't afford to allow me to use the phone that my taxes pay for, maybe
              we should consider not having a LIBRARY here at this location huh?" He then
              went to the director and complained that his phone call was not an emergency and
              demanded to be able to use it anytime because it was HIS(as a taxpayer) PHONE
              to use. Immediately, we suddenly had no phone policy and now anyone can use
              OUR phone whenever they went for whatever reason they want for any amount of
              time they want...and we have to listen to it because its on our circ
              desk...imagine????! Our wimpy administration is ok until one person complains and then its
              out the window..you are right ..but lets take it a step further....they have
              no balls....(I guess no one who owns a cell phone has complained YET)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • laurieshaina@aol.com
              Clinton.....that is funniest disclaimer I have ever seen, did you make it up yourself????? Too funny [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              Message 6 of 23 , Jul 9, 2005
                Clinton.....that is funniest disclaimer I have ever seen, did you make it up
                yourself????? Too funny


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • midwesternyankee
                My library hasn t reached that state yet, but it is only a matter of time. Patrons occasionally complain about loud cell phone use, so I asked the boss if we
                Message 7 of 23 , Jul 9, 2005
                  My library hasn't reached that state yet, but it is only a matter of
                  time. Patrons occasionally complain about loud cell phone use, so I
                  asked the boss if we had a policy and suggested that we need one. No
                  response.

                  I've had patrons ask me a reference question, then whip out their cell
                  phones and talk rather than listen to my answer. So I am admire the
                  cafe in my neighborhood that posts this sign at the counter where you
                  order your coffee & pastry:

                  "You are free to use your cell phone at this counter, but if you do,
                  we are free to ignore you."

                  --- In contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com, Aiden <smersh43@y...> wrote:
                  > Our library has turned into a three ring circus
                  > because of cell phones. They ring from all corners of
                  > the floor, and you can always hear a dozen patrons
                  > babbling loudly into their cell phones. Sometimes we
                  > can't even hear patrons on the other end of our phone.
                  > Our official policy is so nebulous it's worthless.
                  > Here is what our esteemed administration had to say
                  > regarding a question on cell phone use:
                  >
                  > "...I think it's clear that cell phones are here to
                  > stay and that more and more people will be having
                  > simultaneous conversations with face to face and
                  > distant people whenever and wherever they are. In
                  > conversation distance means nothing and the ideas of
                  > many of us think as appropriate are blurring rapidly.
                  > Something that's next: video screens built into
                  > everyday glasses, so that people can view the internet
                  > while they are also talking to you face to face and on
                  > their cell phones too! "
                  >
                  > Hardy Har Har! Yuck, Yuck, Yuck! What a cop out! In
                  > contrast, I visited a library out of state and on
                  > their front door was a prominent sign: "No Cell Phone
                  > Use in Library. All Cell Phones must be on Vibrate".
                  > I spoke to the head Librarian, and she said that cell
                  > phones had turned into a big problem, with the same
                  > sort of situation we have in my library. They went to
                  > the County managers, who agree that this was not
                  > appropriate for a library, and they instituted the "no
                  > cell phone" policy. This was the end of the problem.
                  > Indeed, during my visit there were no cell phone
                  > tones, and not a single person yapping on their cells.
                  >
                  > It must be truly great to live in a county that has
                  > some gumption.
                  >
                  > Best Regards,
                  > Aiden
                  >
                  >
                  > __________________________________________________
                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                  > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  > http://mail.yahoo.com
                • Aiden
                  ... That s a great sign at the pastry shop! I was talking to one of circulation staff the other day, and he said that patrons complained about the noise level
                  Message 8 of 23 , Jul 10, 2005
                    --- midwesternyankee <midwesternyankee@...>
                    wrote:

                    > My library hasn't reached that state yet, but it is
                    > only a matter of
                    > time. Patrons occasionally complain about loud cell
                    > phone use, so I
                    > asked the boss if we had a policy and suggested that
                    > we need one. No
                    > response.
                    >
                    > I've had patrons ask me a reference question, then
                    > whip out their cell
                    > phones and talk rather than listen to my answer. So
                    > I am admire the
                    > cafe in my neighborhood that posts this sign at the
                    > counter where you
                    > order your coffee & pastry:
                    >
                    > "You are free to use your cell phone at this
                    > counter, but if you do,
                    > we are free to ignore you."

                    That's a great sign at the pastry shop! I was
                    talking to one of circulation staff the other day, and
                    he said that patrons complained about the noise level
                    in the library all the time, and many of them
                    specifically mentioned cell phone use. I think that
                    most patrons in our library would welcome a cell phone
                    ban, and understand that a library isn't the place to
                    pace and squawk on your cell phone. The problem, as I
                    see it, is that the people offended by cell phones are
                    generally reasonable people who are too nice to make
                    it a major issue. In contrast, the cell phone users,
                    though a minority, don't care about anyone but
                    themselves, and would probably raise a huge stink
                    about a cell phone ban. So, the administration does
                    the politically expedient thing, and takes a path that
                    will not offend the "stinkers".
                    This may be politically expedient, but in the long
                    term, how many people choose not to return to the
                    library because of the noise? I have spoken to about
                    half a dozen people over the past year who have told
                    me that they don't come to the library anymore because
                    of the chaos. They go to Barnes and Noble to study
                    because it's quieter! How many other people are there
                    like this? This is a real kick in the head, as the
                    old saying goes....
                    The library is trying to be more like Blockbuster
                    and the Mall to draw more numbers, but I think in the
                    long run it will be counter-productive. No matter how
                    much our administration may want to, we cannot
                    "out-mall" the mall or compete with the entertainment
                    world. It's a battle we are bound to lose. But we can
                    be a library, if the top would only support us....

                    Best Regards,
                    Aiden


                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com
                  • Clinton Lowery
                    Yep. It s mine. There s the Florida state disclaimer if it s an email from within the system (about the email being subject to the Sunshine Law where any
                    Message 9 of 23 , Jul 11, 2005
                      Yep. It's mine. There's the Florida state disclaimer
                      if it's an email from within the system (about the
                      email being subject to the Sunshine Law where any
                      email from public employees are public record), but
                      outside the system I use that one.

                      Clinton

                      Clinton Lowery, MLIS
                      Integrated Library Systems
                      Jacksonville Public Library (FL)

                      -- JPL does not endorse the opinions expressed herein,
                      nor would they want to if they were aware of them.

                      --- laurieshaina@... wrote:

                      > Clinton.....that is funniest disclaimer I have ever
                      > seen, did you make it up
                      > yourself????? Too funny
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been
                      > removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      __________________________________________________
                      Do You Yahoo!?
                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                    • Wilson, Bruce
                      Well, we allow the use of cell phones, but we are a LAW library. Attorneys and paralegals use their cell phones to confer with clients and colleagues. ...
                      Message 10 of 23 , Jul 11, 2005
                        Well, we allow the use of cell 'phones, but we are a LAW library. Attorneys and paralegals use their cell 'phones to confer with clients and colleagues.

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com [mailto:contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Aiden
                        Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:28 AM
                        To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • astanfield@mindspring.com
                        Aiden, Perhaps you could convince someone to do a survey of library patrons? You could have each person who comes in fill out a brief survey form for a period
                        Message 11 of 23 , Jul 11, 2005
                          Aiden,

                          Perhaps you could convince someone to do a survey of library patrons? You could have each person who comes in fill out a brief survey form for a period of one week. That way, there's an idea of what people really want and what administrators are just guessing they want.

                          We do surveys twice a semester in the writing lab I work in. We've made changes that were the result of those surveys and also have reinforcement for keeping certain policies in place because we have asked the users what they want.

                          A.



                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Aiden <smersh43@...>
                          Sent: Jul 11, 2005 2:28 AM
                          To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast

                          <html><body>


                          <tt>
                          <BR>
                          <BR>
                          --- midwesternyankee <midwesternyankee@...><BR>
                          wrote:<BR>
                          <BR>
                          > My library hasn't reached that state yet, but it is<BR>
                          > only a matter of<BR>
                          > time.  Patrons occasionally complain about loud cell<BR>
                          > phone use, so I<BR>
                          > asked the boss if we had a policy and suggested that<BR>
                          > we need one.  No<BR>
                          > response.<BR>
                          > <BR>
                          > I've had patrons ask me a reference question, then<BR>
                          > whip out their cell<BR>
                          > phones and talk rather than listen to my answer.  So<BR>
                          > I am admire the<BR>
                          > cafe in my neighborhood that posts this sign at the<BR>
                          > counter where you<BR>
                          > order your coffee & pastry:<BR>
                          > <BR>
                          > "You are free to use your cell phone at this<BR>
                          > counter, but if you do,<BR>
                          > we are free to ignore you."<BR>
                          <BR>
                            That's a great sign at the pastry shop!  I was<BR>
                          talking to one of circulation staff the other day, and<BR>
                          he said that patrons complained about the noise level<BR>
                          in the library all the time, and many of them<BR>
                          specifically mentioned cell phone use.  I think that<BR>
                          most patrons in our library would welcome a cell phone<BR>
                          ban, and understand that a library isn't the place to<BR>
                          pace and squawk on your cell phone.  The problem, as I<BR>
                          see it, is that the people offended by cell phones are<BR>
                          generally reasonable people who are too nice to make<BR>
                          it a major issue.  In contrast, the cell phone users,<BR>
                          though a minority, don't care about anyone but<BR>
                          themselves, and would probably raise a huge stink<BR>
                          about a cell phone ban.  So, the administration does<BR>
                          the politically expedient thing, and takes a path that<BR>
                          will not offend the "stinkers".  <BR>
                            This may be politically expedient, but in the long<BR>
                          term, how many people choose not to return to the<BR>
                          library because of the noise?  I have spoken to about<BR>
                          half a dozen people over the past year who have told<BR>
                          me that they don't come to the library anymore because<BR>
                          of the chaos.  They go to Barnes and Noble to study<BR>
                          because it's quieter! How many other people are there<BR>
                          like this?  This is a real kick in the head, as the<BR>
                          old saying goes....  <BR>
                            The library is trying to be more like Blockbuster<BR>
                          and the Mall to draw more numbers, but I think in the<BR>
                          long run it will be counter-productive.  No matter how<BR>
                          much our administration may want to, we cannot<BR>
                          "out-mall" the mall or compete with the entertainment<BR>
                          world. It's a battle we are bound to lose.  But we can<BR>
                          be a library, if the top would only support us.... <BR>
                          <BR>
                          Best Regards,<BR>
                          Aiden <BR>
                          <BR>
                          <BR>
                          __________________________________________________<BR>
                          Do You Yahoo!?<BR>
                          Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around <BR>
                          <a href="http://mail.yahoo.com">http://mail.yahoo.com</a> <BR>
                          <BR>
                          <BR>
                          </tt>


                          <?---- LSpots keywords ?>
                          <?---- HM ADS ?>


                          <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->


                          <br>
                          <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                          <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                          <tt>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS</tt>
                          </div>
                          <br>
                          <ul>
                          <tt><li type=square> Visit your group "<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrarianlibrarian">contrarianlibrarian</a>" on the web.<br> </tt>
                          <tt><li type=square> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br> <a href="mailto:contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br> </tt>
                          <tt><li type=square> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
                          </ul>
                          <br>
                          <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                          <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                          </div>
                          </br>

                          <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


                          </body></html>
                        • astanfield@mindspring.com
                          Interesting. I d assume they speak more softly b/c of confidentiality issues? ... From: Wilson, Bruce Sent: Jul 11, 2005
                          Message 12 of 23 , Jul 11, 2005
                            Interesting. I'd assume they speak more softly b/c of confidentiality issues?



                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: "Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@...>
                            Sent: Jul 11, 2005 10:29 AM
                            To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast

                            <html><body>


                            <tt>
                            Well, we allow the use of cell 'phones, but we are a LAW library.  Attorneys and paralegals use their cell 'phones to confer with clients and colleagues.<BR>
                            <BR>
                            -----Original Message-----<BR>
                            From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com [mailto:contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Aiden<BR>
                            Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:28 AM<BR>
                            To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                            Subject: Re: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast<BR>
                            <BR>
                            <BR>
                            <BR>
                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
                            <BR>
                            <BR>
                            <BR>
                            </tt>


                            <?---- LSpots keywords ?>
                            <?---- HM ADS ?>


                            <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->


                            <br>
                            <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                            <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                            <tt>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS</tt>
                            </div>
                            <br>
                            <ul>
                            <tt><li type=square> Visit your group "<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrarianlibrarian">contrarianlibrarian</a>" on the web.<br> </tt>
                            <tt><li type=square> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br> <a href="mailto:contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br> </tt>
                            <tt><li type=square> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
                            </ul>
                            <br>
                            <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                            <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                            </div>
                            </br>

                            <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


                            </body></html>
                          • Wilson, Bruce
                            Sometimes; but often what they are talking about wouldn t mean anything out of context; that is, they are discussing the legal issues, but not naming specific
                            Message 13 of 23 , Jul 12, 2005
                              Sometimes; but often what they are talking about wouldn't mean anything
                              out of context; that is, they are discussing the legal issues, but not
                              naming specific people. Something like, "I found 'Smith vs. Wesson',
                              but it doesn't seem on point; 'Lewis vs. Clark' is on point, but because
                              of 'Laurel vs. Hardy' it may not be good law anymore. I'll keep
                              looking."

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                              [mailto:contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of
                              astanfield@...
                              Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 1:32 PM
                              To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast


                              Interesting. I'd assume they speak more softly b/c of confidentiality
                              issues?





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • astanfield@mindspring.com
                              I see. I ve worked in law offices before and the law libraries were never really all that quiet, so I guess it is a different sort of horse. ... From:
                              Message 14 of 23 , Jul 12, 2005
                                I see. I've worked in law offices before and the law libraries were never really all that quiet, so I guess it is a different sort of horse.



                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: "Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@...>
                                Sent: Jul 12, 2005 9:27 AM
                                To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast

                                <html><body>


                                <tt>
                                Sometimes; but often what they are talking about wouldn't mean anything<BR>
                                out of context; that is, they are discussing the legal issues, but not<BR>
                                naming specific people.  Something like, "I found 'Smith vs. Wesson',<BR>
                                but it doesn't seem on point; 'Lewis vs. Clark' is on point, but because<BR>
                                of 'Laurel vs. Hardy' it may not be good law anymore.  I'll keep<BR>
                                looking."<BR>
                                <BR>
                                -----Original Message-----<BR>
                                From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                                [mailto:contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
                                astanfield@...<BR>
                                Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 1:32 PM<BR>
                                To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com<BR>
                                Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast<BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                Interesting.  I'd assume they speak more softly b/c of confidentiality<BR>
                                issues?<BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]<BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                <BR>
                                </tt>


                                <?---- LSpots keywords ?>
                                <?---- HM ADS ?>


                                <!-- |**|begin egp html banner|**| -->


                                <br>
                                <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                                <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                                <tt>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS</tt>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <ul>
                                <tt><li type=square> Visit your group "<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrarianlibrarian">contrarianlibrarian</a>" on the web.<br> </tt>
                                <tt><li type=square> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:<br> <a href="mailto:contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe">contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com</a><br> </tt>
                                <tt><li type=square> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the <a href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service</a>.</tt>
                                </ul>
                                <br>
                                <div style="text-align:center; color:#909090; width:500px;">
                                <hr style="border-bottom:1px; width:500px; text-align:left;">
                                </div>
                                </br>

                                <!-- |**|end egp html banner|**| -->


                                </body></html>
                              • Aiden
                                I was a staff member at the Van Hecke-Wettach law library at UNC-CH for a year, and with all the students studying, I just can t see cell phone users yelling,
                                Message 15 of 23 , Jul 12, 2005
                                  I was a staff member at the Van Hecke-Wettach law
                                  library at UNC-CH for a year, and with all the
                                  students studying, I just can't see cell phone users
                                  yelling, flailing around, and pacing a circuit in an
                                  academic law library like we have in public libraries.


                                  Best Regards,
                                  Aiden




                                  __________________________________________________
                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                  http://mail.yahoo.com
                                • Wilson, Bruce
                                  Well, our clients don t generally yell or flail; most of them are fairly quiet about it, but they do use them. ... From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Jul 13, 2005
                                    Well, our clients don't generally yell or flail; most of them are fairly quiet about it, but they do use them.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com [mailto:contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Aiden
                                    Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2005 7:20 PM
                                    To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast


                                    I was a staff member at the Van Hecke-Wettach law
                                    library at UNC-CH for a year, and with all the
                                    students studying, I just can't see cell phone users
                                    yelling, flailing around, and pacing a circuit in an
                                    academic law library like we have in public libraries.


                                    Best Regards,
                                    Aiden




                                    __________________________________________________
                                    Do You Yahoo!?
                                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                    http://mail.yahoo.com


                                    <?---- LSpots keywords ?><?---- HM ADS ?>

                                    _____

                                    YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS



                                    * Visit your group " contrarianlibrarian <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/contrarianlibrarian> " on the web.


                                    * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                    contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com <mailto:contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>


                                    * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .


                                    _____




                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Aiden
                                    ... Unfortunately, most cell phone users here are not quiet at all, that s the real issue. Officially, the joke that we have for a policy says that ringers
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Jul 13, 2005
                                      --- "Wilson, Bruce" <brucewilson@...>
                                      wrote:

                                      > Well, our clients don't generally yell or flail;
                                      > most of them are fairly quiet about it, but they do
                                      > use them.

                                      Unfortunately, most cell phone users here are not
                                      quiet at all, that's the real issue. Officially, the
                                      joke that we have for a "policy" says that ringers
                                      must be on vibrate, and cell phone use is prohibited
                                      if "others can hear". But this is never enforced.
                                      Never. You can hear people ranting on their cell
                                      phones at the other end of the building. During
                                      storytimes for children, I've had parents stand up and
                                      start prattling into their phones. When I posted a
                                      sign saying "No Cell Phones in Storytime", other
                                      parents applauded it. But if someone complains to the
                                      administration, I have no doubt that I will be told I
                                      can't do this.
                                      Someone mentioned confidentiality with lawyers on
                                      their cell phones. Speaking of confidentiality, I
                                      have always been amazed at the conversations you hear,
                                      people fighting with spouses, talking about their
                                      er...intimate medical problems, etc. Just amazing. I
                                      know I don't want anyone to know my personal business,
                                      but most people don't seem to care. It is like they
                                      think a cell phone is a sound-proof bubble. Here in
                                      South Florida, it has progressively gotten worse.
                                      Visiting North Carolina was like a breath of fresh
                                      air. A much higher percentage of people actually had
                                      some consideration for others.
                                      Last year I visited New York, and I was steeled to
                                      deal with all the "rude New Yorkers" I had heard about
                                      all my life. I was surprised to discover that New
                                      Yorkers are actually much nicer than South Floridians!

                                      Best Regards,
                                      Aiden


                                      __________________________________________________
                                      Do You Yahoo!?
                                      Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                      http://mail.yahoo.com
                                    • astanfield@mindspring.com
                                      Aiden wrote: Someone mentioned confidentiality with lawyers on their cell phones Speaking of confidentiality, I have always been amazed at the conversations
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Jul 13, 2005
                                        Aiden wrote:

                                        Someone mentioned confidentiality with lawyers on their cell phones Speaking of confidentiality, I have always been amazed at the conversations you hear, people fighting with spouses, talking about their er...intimate medical problems, etc. Just amazing. I
                                        know I don't want anyone to know my personal business,
                                        but most people don't seem to care. It is like they
                                        think a cell phone is a sound-proof bubble.

                                        I actually brought this up in my Info. Policy class's discussion on privacy! It's like people really don't want any anymore. Weird.

                                        I don't have a cell phone, but I have found the "sound-proof bubble" thing to be true when I've used someone else's phone in public. (Which is probably why I don't have one of my own. It would do me more harm than good!)

                                        Andrea
                                      • sheri
                                        I was sitting at Old Faithful geyser and listened to a man on his cell phone -- persisting to chatter despite my glances.... and he was transferring 10,000 s
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Jul 13, 2005
                                          I was sitting at Old Faithful geyser
                                          and listened to a man on his cell phone -- persisting to chatter despite my glances....
                                          and he was transferring 10,000's of dollars
                                          giving his secretary permission to take a check he had signed, but left blank to another business and get more cash...
                                          and the list goes on....

                                          It is amazing what people share..... and then act like it is your fault for overhearing..
                                          their LOUD voices..
                                          *sheri*
                                          in eastern washington

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: astanfield@...
                                          To: contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2005 12:22 PM
                                          Subject: RE: [contrarianlibrarian] Re: An Interesting Contrast


                                          Aiden wrote:

                                          Someone mentioned confidentiality with lawyers on their cell phones Speaking of confidentiality, I have always been amazed at the conversations you hear, people fighting with spouses, talking about their er...intimate medical problems, etc. Just amazing. I
                                          know I don't want anyone to know my personal business,
                                          but most people don't seem to care. It is like they
                                          think a cell phone is a sound-proof bubble.

                                          I actually brought this up in my Info. Policy class's discussion on privacy! It's like people really don't want any anymore. Weird.

                                          I don't have a cell phone, but I have found the "sound-proof bubble" thing to be true when I've used someone else's phone in public. (Which is probably why I don't have one of my own. It would do me more harm than good!)

                                          Andrea






                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                          YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS

                                          a.. Visit your group "contrarianlibrarian" on the web.

                                          b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                          contrarianlibrarian-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                                          c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


                                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Aiden
                                          ... I agree: its simply incredible. The other day an older gentleman was loudly bleating on his cell phone about his proctology appointment! You could hear
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Jul 14, 2005
                                            --- sheri <email.sheri@...> wrote:

                                            > I was sitting at Old Faithful geyser
                                            > and listened to a man on his cell phone --
                                            > persisting to chatter despite my glances....
                                            > and he was transferring 10,000's of dollars
                                            > giving his secretary permission to take a check he
                                            > had signed, but left blank to another business and
                                            > get more cash...
                                            > and the list goes on....
                                            >
                                            > It is amazing what people share..... and then act
                                            > like it is your fault for overhearing..
                                            > their LOUD voices..
                                            > *sheri*
                                            > in eastern washington

                                            I agree: its simply incredible. The other day an
                                            older "gentleman" was loudly bleating on his cell
                                            phone about his proctology appointment! You could
                                            hear it all over the library. People have loud fights
                                            with their significant others, and then get angry if
                                            someone looks at then. Well, I say, if don't want
                                            anyone to hear, kepp your moith shut. I would never
                                            have a big fight on a cell phone in public because A)
                                            I think it would make me look like an idiot in my
                                            personal life, B) it's revealing details about my life
                                            I have no wish for tohers to know about and C) it
                                            shows I have no manners. But most people these days
                                            simply don't care.
                                            A friend of mine has a very good response to the
                                            bigmouths. When she's trying to read in a library or
                                            a bookstore and a cell phone idiot is disturbing her,
                                            she begins to read aloud at a volume matching the cell
                                            phone user.
                                            When asked about the increasing numbers of abusive
                                            people in the library, the position of our
                                            administration is that the "library is for everyone,
                                            yuk, yuk, yuk". But it seems that it is increasingly
                                            *not* for people who have no wish to put up with such
                                            obnoxious and abusive behavior.

                                            best Regards,
                                            Aiden


                                            __________________________________________________
                                            Do You Yahoo!?
                                            Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                            http://mail.yahoo.com
                                          • laurieshaina@aol.com
                                            I had a weird instance with my cell phone. I was tired one night and on the way home from work I called on my cell phone to my favorite chinese restaurant and
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Jul 14, 2005
                                              I had a weird instance with my cell phone. I was tired one night and on the
                                              way home from work I called on my cell phone to my favorite chinese restaurant
                                              and ordered some takeout to pick up on the way home. A man answered said
                                              "Hello" I placed the order and asked how long it would take...he said "Bout 10
                                              minutes" and I hung up. When I got there they never got my order at all(!) but
                                              told me that when their phone rung and they answered they only heard the tail end
                                              of my call with ANOTHER person on a cell phone who was in car next to mine in
                                              traffic, who I actually was conversing with and never realized it...it was a
                                              joke....how bout that for privacy?!


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • midwesternyankee
                                              We narrowly escaped having phone reference combined with in-person reference at my library. What convinced administration was reporting that we get calls
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Jul 16, 2005
                                                We narrowly escaped having phone reference combined with in-person
                                                reference at my library. What convinced administration was reporting
                                                that we get calls about such sensitive things as sexually transmitted
                                                diseases and parts of the anatomy. Plus we get callers who are hard
                                                of hearing or have weak connections or inescapable background noise,
                                                so there are times that we cannot avoid shouting into the phone. If
                                                you think overhearing someone's cell phone argument is bad, picture
                                                having your library visit enhanced by hearing a librarian give the
                                                spelling and definition of gonorrhea at the top of her lungs.

                                                Phone reference remained behind closed doors.

                                                --- In contrarianlibrarian@yahoogroups.com, astanfield@m... wrote:
                                                > Aiden wrote:
                                                >
                                                > Someone mentioned confidentiality with lawyers on their cell phones
                                                Speaking of confidentiality, I have always been amazed at the
                                                conversations you hear, people fighting with spouses, talking about
                                                their er...intimate medical problems, etc. Just amazing. I
                                                > know I don't want anyone to know my personal business,
                                                > but most people don't seem to care. It is like they
                                                > think a cell phone is a sound-proof bubble.
                                                >
                                                > I actually brought this up in my Info. Policy class's discussion on
                                                privacy! It's like people really don't want any anymore. Weird.
                                                >
                                                > I don't have a cell phone, but I have found the "sound-proof bubble"
                                                thing to be true when I've used someone else's phone in public.
                                                (Which is probably why I don't have one of my own. It would do me
                                                more harm than good!)
                                                >
                                                > Andrea
                                              • laurieshaina@aol.com
                                                Librarian shouting out how to spell the g word that is too funny....I once had an 8 year old come to reference desk and ask me for a book on sex...so I
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Jul 17, 2005
                                                  Librarian shouting out how to spell the "g" word that is too funny....I once
                                                  had an 8 year old come to reference desk and ask me for a book on sex...so I
                                                  said...is this for a research project and she shouted...."No way, I just wanna
                                                  learn how to do it right" Boy was I embarassed...


                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.