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NAR Contest Board and altimeters

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  • vincent_jeff
    Guys, I can t divulge any details, but the Contest Board will soon be announcing rules and procedures for using altimeters in NAR altitude events. (No, I don t
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 9, 2006
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      Guys,

      I can't divulge any details, but the Contest Board will soon be
      announcing rules and procedures for using altimeters in NAR altitude
      events.

      (No, I don't know if that will be in effect by NARAM.)

      -- Jeff, NERCB
    • John DeMar
      Do you have any information on who reviewed the procedures and what professional level of expertise they may have related to electronics and altimetry? -John
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 10, 2006
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        Do you have any information on who reviewed the procedures and what
        professional level of expertise they may have related to electronics
        and altimetry?

        -John

        --- In contestRoc@yahoogroups.com, "vincent_jeff" <jeffvincent@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Guys,
        >
        > I can't divulge any details, but the Contest Board will soon be
        > announcing rules and procedures for using altimeters in NAR altitude
        > events.
        >
        > (No, I don't know if that will be in effect by NARAM.)
        >
        > -- Jeff, NERCB
        >
      • gcgassaway@aol.com
        Jeff Vincent wrote: ... I can t divulge any details, but the Contest Board will soon be announcing rules and procedures for using altimeters in NAR altitude
        Message 3 of 4 , Mar 11, 2006
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          Jeff Vincent wrote:
          Jeff Vincent wrote:
          >>>>
          I can't divulge any details, but the Contest Board will soon be
          announcing rules and procedures for using altimeters in NAR altitude
          events.

          (No, I don't know if that will be in effect by NARAM.)
          <<<<

          If the Contest Board wants to submit their own rules revision for a vote,
          great.

          Otherwise, I have major problems with the contest board making up their own
          new rules. Of course we’ve been allowing NARAM CD’s to CREATE new rules for
          NARAMs in recent years so maybe the Contest Board feels free to do the same
          outside of the revision process.

          And in any case, any new rules that would allow altimeters should take effect
          just like any rules revision does. That is, taking effect on July 1st (start
          of the next contest year), NOT including NARAM.

          I will say that the one altimeter I have had experience using, left me
          totally dismayed at how untrustworthy it was. I was trying to do an R&D project
          using pistons, and dozens of flights on 1/2A power. There were too many flights
          that looked like they went higher than reported, and some that looked like they
          went lower than reported. It happened too often to just ignore as a random
          thing (the flights were in the 100-250 foot range, and for most of them I was
          about 100 feet to the side at liftoff so I had a decent view to compare what I
          saw with what was reported. I’m not saying by eye I could estimate how high
          something went, but I could tell by eye when one flight seemed to go about as high
          as another flight, but too often the altimeter gave widely different
          results). And a couple where by “coincidence” the flight had the same exact
          reported altitude as the previous flight (It was supposed to have been reset).
          Also, the altimeter would false start if it sat on the pad for too long, so I had
          to fly it within a specific time window (it required a certain minimum amount
          of time after power-up before flight, something like 45 seconds, but the
          longer it sat on the pad after the minimum time passed, the more likely it would
          false start).

          The R&D project’s data turned out to be totally untrustworthy due to the
          altimeter, so the R&D project totally imploded as a result. About 36 flights worth
          of “data” that didn’t mean anything. Well, didn’t mean anything as far as
          the piston R&D, but it turned out by accident to be an R&D on how UNtrustworthy
          altimeters were (but since eyeball estimates of inaccuracies were so
          subjective, and I had no way to prove the back to back identical flights were not
          coincidences, it wasn’t viable to convert the report into one about the
          untrustworthiness of altimeters - or at least the one I flew).

          To fly that crappy altimeter in competition, a person would have to have the
          RSO wait for them to power it up on the pad, then wait the required minimum
          time for it to start up, then launch it quickly before it false started.

          - George Gassaway


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Rick Bier
          ... Sounds like that brand wouldn t pass certification tests George. Or, maybe the rocket engines were that different? After all, total impulse and time delays
          Message 4 of 4 , Mar 12, 2006
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            --- In contestRoc@yahoogroups.com, gcgassaway@... wrote:
            >I will say that the one altimeter I have had experience using,
            >left me totally dismayed at how untrustworthy it was.

            Sounds like that brand wouldn't pass certification tests George.

            Or, maybe the rocket engines were that different? After all, total
            impulse and time delays are not consistent.

            I learned long ago to trust my instruments and not my eyes or the seat
            of my pants. The instruments are almost always more accurate.

            Certify altimeters just like we do rocket engines.

            Rick Bier
            NAR 9919
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