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Noun or verb?

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  • Herman Miller
    Tirëlat has a word žaadi which means dream . I ve been using it as a noun, but it s listed as a verb. On the other hand, it s listed with the të-
    Message 1 of 13 , Aug 10, 2014
      Tirëlat has a word "žaadi" which means "dream". I've been using it as a
      noun, but it's listed as a verb. On the other hand, it's listed with the
      "të-" prefix, which marks inherently possessed nouns. Way back in the
      Tirehlat-English dictionary, "jádi" was glossed as "dream" (not "to
      dream", as it would have been if it was a verb then).

      So which is it, a noun or a verb? I think it makes the most sense to
      have "dream" as a verb. I've been using "žaadida" to mean "dreamer", and
      the "-da" suffix ordinarily goes with verbs. And the derived noun would
      be "žaadiŋ"; I can change "žaadi ŋaj" in the song "Tyšwi vë xeev" to
      "žaadiŋ ŋaj" and it would be hard to tell the difference.

      The compound "žaadivor" for "dreamland" can remain unchanged; verb-noun
      compounds are fine. It would just mean "the land of dreaming" instead of
      "the land of dreams".
    • Wilson Biggs
      On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:37:14 -0400, Herman Miller ... In my conlang, Rovörgelskar, I used to have a suffix that you could append to a
      Message 2 of 13 , Aug 10, 2014
        On Sun, 10 Aug 2014 13:37:14 -0400, Herman Miller <hmiller@...>
        wrote:

        > Tirëlat has a word "žaadi" which means "dream". I've been using it as a
        > noun, but it's listed as a verb. On the other hand, it's listed with the
        > "të-" prefix, which marks inherently possessed nouns. Way back in the
        > Tirehlat-English dictionary, "jádi" was glossed as "dream" (not "to
        > dream", as it would have been if it was a verb then).
        >
        > So which is it, a noun or a verb? I think it makes the most sense to
        > have "dream" as a verb. I've been using "žaadida" to mean "dreamer", and
        > the "-da" suffix ordinarily goes with verbs. And the derived noun would
        > be "žaadiŋ"; I can change "žaadi ŋaj" in the song "Tyšwi vë xeev" to
        > "žaadiŋ ŋaj" and it would be hard to tell the difference.
        >
        > The compound "žaadivor" for "dreamland" can remain unchanged; verb-noun
        > compounds are fine. It would just mean "the land of dreaming" instead of
        > "the land of dreams".

        In my conlang, Rovörgelskar, I used to have a suffix that you could append
        to a verb to make a noun meaning the result of a verb; the verb "to
        dream", "súpna", could become the noun "súpenkör". I currently have a
        different approach to these sorts of nouns, but a similar method could be
        used in your case, or perhaps an existing suffix could be adapted to this
        use.

        --
        Wilson Biggs
        wilson@...
        http://wilsonbiggs.com/
      • MorphemeAddict
        Can there be two otherwise identical words, one a noun and one a verb? stevo
        Message 3 of 13 , Aug 10, 2014
          Can there be two otherwise identical words, one a noun and one a verb?

          stevo


          On Sun, Aug 10, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:

          > Tirëlat has a word "žaadi" which means "dream". I've been using it as a
          > noun, but it's listed as a verb. On the other hand, it's listed with the
          > "të-" prefix, which marks inherently possessed nouns. Way back in the
          > Tirehlat-English dictionary, "jádi" was glossed as "dream" (not "to dream",
          > as it would have been if it was a verb then).
          >
          > So which is it, a noun or a verb? I think it makes the most sense to have
          > "dream" as a verb. I've been using "žaadida" to mean "dreamer", and the
          > "-da" suffix ordinarily goes with verbs. And the derived noun would be
          > "žaadiŋ"; I can change "žaadi ŋaj" in the song "Tyšwi vë xeev" to "žaadiŋ
          > ŋaj" and it would be hard to tell the difference.
          >
          > The compound "žaadivor" for "dreamland" can remain unchanged; verb-noun
          > compounds are fine. It would just mean "the land of dreaming" instead of
          > "the land of dreams".
          >
        • Herman Miller
          ... Yes, in fact łašpa is a noun, scimitar , and a verb, to squeeze .
          Message 4 of 13 , Aug 10, 2014
            MorphemeAddict wrote:
            > Can there be two otherwise identical words, one a noun and one a verb?

            Yes, in fact "łašpa" is a noun, "scimitar", and a verb, "to squeeze".
          • Thomas Ruhm
            There is conlang cooking, stories in conlang, conhistory, maps, conscripts, songs and sure a lot more, but I don t know much about conlang visual arts. Well,
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 11, 2014
              There is conlang cooking, stories in conlang, conhistory, maps, conscripts, songs and sure a lot more, but I don't know much about conlang visual arts. Well, there are some very nice designed websites. But are there conlangs where it is a major part? I should know, but I only just realised that I didn't bother much about that yet.
            • Roger Mills
              They exist, of course, in my conworld/concultures, but are left to the viewers imaginations..... Had we but world enough and time..... On Monday, August 11,
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 11, 2014
                They exist, of course, in my conworld/concultures, but are left to the viewers' imaginations.....

                "Had we but world enough and time....."



                On Monday, August 11, 2014 6:52 AM, Thomas Ruhm <thomas@...> wrote:



                There is conlang cooking, stories in conlang, conhistory, maps, conscripts, songs and sure a lot more, but I don't know much about conlang visual arts. Well, there are some very nice designed websites. But are there conlangs where it is a major part? I should know, but I only just realised that I didn't bother much about that yet.
              • Zach Wellstood
                Tentatively (it s only in my mind right now), visual arts are a large part łaá siri, since they are a large part of me. In anticipation of this, I ve
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 11, 2014
                  Tentatively (it's only in my mind right now), visual arts are a large part
                  łaá siri, since they are a large part of me. In anticipation of this, I've
                  documented some aspects of the language with extra attention to how they
                  relate to visual arts. Perhaps the most developed aspect is the script,
                  which has two forms: standard, for reading and writing, and decorative
                  specifically for adorning works of art like paintings or books. Even the
                  standard form has this to an extent, because each base of the abugida (aka
                  all of the consonants) can be used artistically as ideograms which
                  represent a certain semantic domain. For instance, the consonant used for
                  the syllable <tła> can also be used in artworks as: 1. A symbol for the
                  past, old things, or generally "bad" things because this syllable is used
                  to write the words for "old," "bad," "evil," and "nothingness." 2. An omen
                  or 'curse'. And, 3. If mirrored 180 degrees, a ward against malevolent
                  energies. So all of the consonant glyphs contain this sort of secondary use
                  within visual arts. An early example of this is here:
                  http://blog.zwelldesigns.com/post/78193175833/2014-watercolor-pen#notes

                  My hope is to create a more extensive body of work specifically related to
                  visual arts in the conlang.

                  Zach
                  On Aug 11, 2014 4:46 AM, "Thomas Ruhm" <thomas@...> wrote:

                  > There is conlang cooking, stories in conlang, conhistory, maps,
                  > conscripts, songs and sure a lot more, but I don't know much about conlang
                  > visual arts. Well, there are some very nice designed websites. But are
                  > there conlangs where it is a major part? I should know, but I only just
                  > realised that I didn't bother much about that yet.
                • Thomas Ruhm
                  The writing looks a bit like Georgian and Indian.
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 11, 2014
                    The writing looks a bit like Georgian and Indian.

                    > So all of the consonant glyphs contain this sort of secondary use
                    > within visual arts. An early example of this is here:
                    > http://blog.zwelldesigns.com/post/78193175833/2014-watercolor-pen#notes
                  • John Q
                    ... The Ithkuil ornamental script (see Section 11.6 of the online grammar for an example) is designed to function as a visual art form. I have yet to adapt it
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 11, 2014
                      Thomas Ruhm wrote:

                      >There is conlang cooking, stories in conlang, conhistory, maps, conscripts, songs and sure a lot more, but I don't know much about conlang visual arts. Well, there are some very nice designed websites. But are there conlangs where it is a major part? I should know, but I only just realised that I didn't bother much about that yet.

                      -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                      The Ithkuil ornamental script (see Section 11.6 of the online grammar for an example) is designed to function as a visual art form. I have yet to adapt it to the revised version of the language (it was originally designed for use with the short-lived Ilaksh language) but once I finally adapt it, it is my intention to construct sculpted wall hangings of various sayings, mottos, literary passages, etc. Additional examples of the ornamental script can be seen on the opening background slide of my presentation at LCC5.

                      --John Q.
                    • Thomas Ruhm
                      If there was a conlang museum, that would be the right thing to be shown there. Are wall hangings carpets? For me those colours are a bit to cold.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 12, 2014
                        If there was a conlang museum, that would be the right thing to be shown there. Are wall hangings carpets? For me those colours are a bit to cold.

                        > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        >
                        > The Ithkuil ornamental script (see Section 11.6 of the online grammar for an example) is designed to function as a visual art form. I have yet to adapt it to the revised version of the language (it was originally designed for use with the short-lived Ilaksh language) but once I finally adapt it, it is my intention to construct sculpted wall hangings of various sayings, mottos, literary passages, etc. Additional examples of the ornamental script can be seen on the opening background slide of my presentation at LCC5.
                        >
                        > --John Q.
                      • Jeffrey Brown
                        This is an interesting discussion. At first, I thought that any visual arts would really be the arts of the conculture. But then I thought about Arabic
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 12, 2014
                          This is an interesting discussion. At first, I thought that any visual arts
                          would really be the arts of the conculture. But then I thought about Arabic
                          Calligraphy, and how that is an artform. I suppose if one is truly talking
                          about *conlang* visual arts, then it is limited to the the artistic
                          expression of the orthography, and that adjunct art forms, such as medieval
                          illuminations, are rather about the conculture.



                          On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 4:25 AM, Thomas Ruhm <thomas@...> wrote:

                          > If there was a conlang museum, that would be the right thing to be shown
                          > there. Are wall hangings carpets? For me those colours are a bit to cold.
                          >
                          > >
                          > -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          > >
                          > > The Ithkuil ornamental script (see Section 11.6 of the online grammar
                          > for an example) is designed to function as a visual art form. I have yet
                          > to adapt it to the revised version of the language (it was originally
                          > designed for use with the short-lived Ilaksh language) but once I finally
                          > adapt it, it is my intention to construct sculpted wall hangings of various
                          > sayings, mottos, literary passages, etc. Additional examples of the
                          > ornamental script can be seen on the opening background slide of my
                          > presentation at LCC5.
                          > >
                          > > --John Q.
                          >
                        • John Q
                          The colors used in the Ithkuil ornamental script can be any three contrasting colors (plus one textural pattern) that will reduce in grayscale to light/white,
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 12, 2014
                            The colors used in the Ithkuil ornamental script can be any three contrasting colors (plus one textural pattern) that will reduce in grayscale to light/white, dark/black, and mid-range gray. Many color combinations are therefore possible.

                            --John Q.

                            ___________________________________

                            > Thomas Ruhm wrote:

                            >If there was a conlang museum, that would be the right thing to be shown there. Are wall hangings carpets? For me those colours are a bit to cold.
                            -------------------------------------------
                            >>
                            >> The Ithkuil ornamental script (see Section 11.6 of the online grammar for an example) is designed to function as a visual art form.
                          • Thomas Ruhm
                            The colour combinations remind me on the rules for flags. There you have the metall colours yellow and white, which shouldn t be neighbours, because the
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 18, 2014
                              The colour combinations remind me on the rules for flags. There you have the metall colours yellow and white, which shouldn't be neighbours, because the contrast is too low.

                              ------
                              The colors used in the Ithkuil ornamental script can be any three contrasting colors (plus one textural pattern) that will reduce in grayscale to light/white, dark/black, and mid-range gray. Many color combinations are therefore possible.

                              --John Q.
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