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gjâ-zym-byn lessons

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  • Jim Henry
    I ve posted a batch of completely rewritten gjâ-zym-byn lessons. The revised lesson 0 has been up for a while; this batch includes lessons 1-4:
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 14, 2014
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      I've posted a batch of completely rewritten gjâ-zym-byn lessons. The
      revised lesson 0 has been up for a while; this batch includes lessons
      1-4:

      http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/gzb.htm#lessons

      I plan to add more lessons soon.

      --
      Jim Henry
      http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
      http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
    • James Kane
      I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there s something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next paragraph seems to talk
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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        I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there's something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next paragraph seems to talk about exceptions in the stress system.

        It might also be nice to have some IPA; it isn't entirely clear what the pronunciation of each letter is.

        Otherwise, good lessons and I will continue with the rest of them :)

        James


        > On 15/03/2014, at 6:23 pm, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
        >
        > I've posted a batch of completely rewritten gjâ-zym-byn lessons. The
        > revised lesson 0 has been up for a while; this batch includes lessons
        > 1-4:
        >
        > http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/gzb.htm#lessons
        >
        > I plan to add more lessons soon.
        >
        > --
        > Jim Henry
        > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
        > http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
      • Jim Henry
        ... Yes, apparently a sentence or two got deleted there by accident, about how gzb usually stresses the penultimate syllable. I ll fix that soon. ... Lesson 0
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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          On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:29 AM, James Kane <kanejam@...> wrote:
          > I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there's something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next paragraph seems to talk about exceptions in the stress system.

          Yes, apparently a sentence or two got deleted there by accident, about
          how gzb usually stresses the penultimate syllable. I'll fix that soon.

          > It might also be nice to have some IPA; it isn't entirely clear what the pronunciation of each letter is.

          Lesson 0 has a link in the first paragraph to the "Phonology and
          Writing System" document, which has an IPA chart etc., and more
          technical detail about the phonology overall. It starts out by
          saying:

          >>This should explain the sounds and writing system of gjâ-zym-byn (gzb) more simply, assuming no linguistics background, than the more technical description in the "Phonology & Writing System" document.
          <<

          and then there's another link to the phonology document in the next
          paragraph, where it says click here for more advanced information
          about exceptions.

          I'm not sure how to make that more clear. Maybe I could say a
          paragraph or two later that if you want IPA, go here.

          --
          Jim Henry
          http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
          http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
        • taliesin the storyteller
          ... Do the previous versions still exist? It could be interesting to compare and contrast. These are tuned to be able to produce sentences quickly, yes? t.
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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            On 03/15/2014 06:23 AM, Jim Henry wrote:
            > I've posted a batch of completely rewritten gjâ-zym-byn lessons. The
            > revised lesson 0 has been up for a while; this batch includes lessons
            > 1-4:
            >
            > http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/gzb.htm#lessons

            Do the previous versions still exist? It could be interesting to compare
            and contrast. These are tuned to be able to produce sentences quickly, yes?


            t.
          • Jim Henry
            On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:48 AM, taliesin the storyteller ... They re no longer linked from the main page, but they re still on the site; I haven t deleted
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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              On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 11:48 AM, taliesin the storyteller
              <taliesin-conlang@...> wrote:
              > Do the previous versions still exist? It could be interesting to compare and
              > contrast. These are tuned to be able to produce sentences quickly, yes?

              They're no longer linked from the main page, but they're still on the
              site; I haven't deleted them yet. If you really want to look at them,
              they're here:

              http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/lesson00.txt
              http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/lesson01.txt
              http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/lesson02.txt
              http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/lesson03.txt
              http://jimhenry.conlang.org/gzb/lesson04.txt

              The first couple are a bit of a mess, partway through the rewrite that
              eventually led to the current .html versions. And the latter three
              are ten years or more out of date, not a reliable reference for the
              current version of the language. There are no exercises, and they
              probably introduce too many bits of grammar per lesson, with sometimes
              insufficiently clear explanation.

              The material in the old lessons 3 and 4 will be reused with major
              rewrites in lessons 5+ of the new version.

              --
              Jim Henry
              http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
              http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
            • James Kane
              Sorry, I think I glossed over the link to the more advanced phonology. Now that I ve seen it I m happy :). The only three things that confused me were:
              Message 6 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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                Sorry, I think I glossed over the link to the more advanced phonology. Now that I've seen it I'm happy :).

                The only three things that confused me were: firstly, "A sound like English "k", but with the tongue further back in the mouth; most similar to the final sound in English "call" as distinct the inital sound in "back", the latter of which is represented by gzb "k"." This seems a bit convoluted; maybe you have 'initial' and 'final' swapped around?
                Secondly, the descriptions for the palatal affricates made me think they were palatoalveolar for some reason.
                Lastly, your vowels descriptions are clearly based on a NAm dialect. Not that this is a bad thing, just that it might be confusing for people whose raw and cough don't have the same vowel and it might be worth mentioning.

                Sorry to be such a nitpicker!

                James


                > On 17/03/2014, at 1:55 am, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:29 AM, James Kane <kanejam@...> wrote:
                >> I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there's something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next paragraph seems to talk about exceptions in the stress system.
                >
                > Yes, apparently a sentence or two got deleted there by accident, about
                > how gzb usually stresses the penultimate syllable. I'll fix that soon.
                >
                >> It might also be nice to have some IPA; it isn't entirely clear what the pronunciation of each letter is.
                >
                > Lesson 0 has a link in the first paragraph to the "Phonology and
                > Writing System" document, which has an IPA chart etc., and more
                > technical detail about the phonology overall. It starts out by
                > saying:
                >
                >>> This should explain the sounds and writing system of gjâ-zym-byn (gzb) more simply, assuming no linguistics background, than the more technical description in the "Phonology & Writing System" document.
                > <<
                >
                > and then there's another link to the phonology document in the next
                > paragraph, where it says click here for more advanced information
                > about exceptions.
                >
                > I'm not sure how to make that more clear. Maybe I could say a
                > paragraph or two later that if you want IPA, go here.
                >
                > --
                > Jim Henry
                > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                > http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
              • Guilherme Santos
                I am not a english native speaker so i have no right to speak on dialectology, but who says raw and cough with the same vowel?
                Message 7 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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                  I am not a english native speaker so i have no right to speak on
                  dialectology, but who says raw and cough with the same vowel?


                  2014-03-16 22:05 GMT-03:00 James Kane <kanejam@...>:

                  > Sorry, I think I glossed over the link to the more advanced phonology. Now
                  > that I've seen it I'm happy :).
                  >
                  > The only three things that confused me were: firstly, "A sound like
                  > English "k", but with the tongue further back in the mouth; most similar to
                  > the final sound in English "call" as distinct the inital sound in "back",
                  > the latter of which is represented by gzb "k"." This seems a bit
                  > convoluted; maybe you have 'initial' and 'final' swapped around?
                  > Secondly, the descriptions for the palatal affricates made me think they
                  > were palatoalveolar for some reason.
                  > Lastly, your vowels descriptions are clearly based on a NAm dialect. Not
                  > that this is a bad thing, just that it might be confusing for people whose
                  > raw and cough don't have the same vowel and it might be worth mentioning.
                  >
                  > Sorry to be such a nitpicker!
                  >
                  > James
                  >
                  >
                  > > On 17/03/2014, at 1:55 am, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >>
                  > >> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:29 AM, James Kane <kanejam@...> wrote:
                  > >> I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there's
                  > something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next
                  > paragraph seems to talk about exceptions in the stress system.
                  > >
                  > > Yes, apparently a sentence or two got deleted there by accident, about
                  > > how gzb usually stresses the penultimate syllable. I'll fix that soon.
                  > >
                  > >> It might also be nice to have some IPA; it isn't entirely clear what
                  > the pronunciation of each letter is.
                  > >
                  > > Lesson 0 has a link in the first paragraph to the "Phonology and
                  > > Writing System" document, which has an IPA chart etc., and more
                  > > technical detail about the phonology overall. It starts out by
                  > > saying:
                  > >
                  > >>> This should explain the sounds and writing system of gjâ-zym-byn (gzb)
                  > more simply, assuming no linguistics background, than the more technical
                  > description in the "Phonology & Writing System" document.
                  > > <<
                  > >
                  > > and then there's another link to the phonology document in the next
                  > > paragraph, where it says click here for more advanced information
                  > > about exceptions.
                  > >
                  > > I'm not sure how to make that more clear. Maybe I could say a
                  > > paragraph or two later that if you want IPA, go here.
                  > >
                  > > --
                  > > Jim Henry
                  > > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                  > > http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                  >
                • C. Brickner
                  I do. Been doing it all my life. I m now 73. Charlie ... From: Guilherme Santos To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU Sent: Sunday, March
                  Message 8 of 10 , Mar 16, 2014
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                    I do. Been doing it all my life. I'm now 73.
                    Charlie

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Guilherme Santos" <guimondex@...>
                    To: CONLANG@...
                    Sent: Sunday, March 16, 2014 10:25:06 PM
                    Subject: Re: gjâ-zym-byn lessons

                    I am not a english native speaker so i have no right to speak on
                    dialectology, but who says raw and cough with the same vowel?


                    2014-03-16 22:05 GMT-03:00 James Kane <kanejam@...>:

                    > Sorry, I think I glossed over the link to the more advanced phonology. Now
                    > that I've seen it I'm happy :).
                    >
                    > The only three things that confused me were: firstly, "A sound like
                    > English "k", but with the tongue further back in the mouth; most similar to
                    > the final sound in English "call" as distinct the inital sound in "back",
                    > the latter of which is represented by gzb "k"." This seems a bit
                    > convoluted; maybe you have 'initial' and 'final' swapped around?
                    > Secondly, the descriptions for the palatal affricates made me think they
                    > were palatoalveolar for some reason.
                    > Lastly, your vowels descriptions are clearly based on a NAm dialect. Not
                    > that this is a bad thing, just that it might be confusing for people whose
                    > raw and cough don't have the same vowel and it might be worth mentioning.
                    >
                    > Sorry to be such a nitpicker!
                    >
                    > James
                    >
                    >
                    > > On 17/03/2014, at 1:55 am, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
                    > >
                    > >>
                    > >> On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 5:29 AM, James Kane <kanejam@...> wrote:
                    > >> I just looked through the first lesson, it seems as if there's
                    > something missing at the end. Nasals vowels are discussed and the next
                    > paragraph seems to talk about exceptions in the stress system.
                    > >
                    > > Yes, apparently a sentence or two got deleted there by accident, about
                    > > how gzb usually stresses the penultimate syllable. I'll fix that soon.
                    > >
                    > >> It might also be nice to have some IPA; it isn't entirely clear what
                    > the pronunciation of each letter is.
                    > >
                    > > Lesson 0 has a link in the first paragraph to the "Phonology and
                    > > Writing System" document, which has an IPA chart etc., and more
                    > > technical detail about the phonology overall. It starts out by
                    > > saying:
                    > >
                    > >>> This should explain the sounds and writing system of gjâ-zym-byn (gzb)
                    > more simply, assuming no linguistics background, than the more technical
                    > description in the "Phonology & Writing System" document.
                    > > <<
                    > >
                    > > and then there's another link to the phonology document in the next
                    > > paragraph, where it says click here for more advanced information
                    > > about exceptions.
                    > >
                    > > I'm not sure how to make that more clear. Maybe I could say a
                    > > paragraph or two later that if you want IPA, go here.
                    > >
                    > > --
                    > > Jim Henry
                    > > http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                    > > http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                    >
                  • Puey McCleary
                    I m very glad to see these new gjâ-zym-byn lessons. I just left a very busy week, and, with this coming week, I m not at all sure when I ll have a chance to
                    Message 9 of 10 , Mar 17, 2014
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                      I'm very glad to see these new gjâ-zym-byn lessons. I just left a very
                      busy week, and, with this coming week, I'm not at all sure when I'll have a
                      chance to look at these exercises in depth. But, eventually, I shall.
                      So far, these are the Conlangs which I have not examined yet, and which
                      have at least one lesson:

                      -- Taruven
                      -- Sandic
                      -- gjâ-zym-byn
                      -- Teonaht

                      Happy Saint Patrick's Day! Where I live, Christmas has officially ended.
                      Spring lasts for the next three weeks (when the wistaria blooms), for
                      Summer begins in early April-ish. Rejoice, and keep the Conlang lessons
                      coming!
                    • Jim Henry
                      ... Yes, thanks. ... š/ʝ sx / jq Similar to the ch in German ich , or the h in Japanese hito . č/ž cq / zq Similar to š/ʝ, but starting with a
                      Message 10 of 10 , Mar 17, 2014
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                        On Sun, Mar 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM, James Kane <kanejam@...> wrote:
                        >"k"." This seems a bit convoluted; maybe you have 'initial' and 'final' swapped around?

                        Yes, thanks.

                        > Secondly, the descriptions for the palatal affricates made me think they were palatoalveolar for some reason.

                        >>
                        š/ʝ sx / jq Similar to the "ch" in German "ich", or the "h" in Japanese "hito".
                        č/ž cq / zq Similar to š/ʝ, but starting with a sound like t/d,
                        merging into the "ich" sound.
                        <<

                        Can anyone suggest a clearer way to describe those affricates without
                        using linguistic jargon? (They're described more clearly in the
                        "Phonology" document of course.)

                        > Lastly, your vowels descriptions are clearly based on a NAm dialect. Not that this is a bad thing, just that it might be confusing for people whose raw and cough don't have the same vowel and it might be worth mentioning.

                        I've added a clarifying note, with a link to the vowel chart in the
                        Phonology document.

                        I might upload these corrections within a few hours, or I might wait a
                        bit and upload them at the same time as lesson 5, which is about half
                        done.

                        --
                        Jim Henry
                        http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                        http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
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