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Re: Music in conlangs and conworlds. (was: THEORY: Native languages of the Americas in popular music)

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  • Padraic Brown
    Leonardo Castro wrote:   ... No! I am no great player of music at all! They were written, at first, at a small keyboard instrument,
    Message 1 of 25 , Oct 30, 2013
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      Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

       
      > 2013/10/20 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
      >> From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
      >>
      >>> I wonder how common it is for conlangers to create their own musical constyles.
      >
      >> Well, you're conversing with one who has! I know of several others who have
      >> done so as well. If you like, you can go to http://www.frathwiki.com/The_World
      >> and skip down to the bits about Opera and Gnomic Music. There are links to
      >> several pieces of music as well.
      >
      > Nice! I was you who played those samples?

      No! I am no great player of music at all! They were written, at first, at a small keyboard
      instrument, but eventually got transferred to computer. Better playback and easier editing!

      > They remind me of RPG computer games (although I'm not a great player of them).

      Unintentional, I assure! Though I was a fan of the old Ultima games.

      > Have you considered creating a game?

      I wouldn't really know how to begin or what ought to be done!

      > I don't know if you really wanted to send this message only to me or
      > to the whole list.

      Sorry, yes, should have gone to list...now corrected.

      I'd be interested to know about not only Elsewhere music, but Elsewhere musical
      *systems* -- genres, different scales and tunings, favored intervals / themes / chord
      structures, different schemes of instrumentation and so forth. It seems quite natural
      that among folks who not only create poetry, but entirely new languages in which
      to write poetry, more than one would create new musics in which to write songs
      or tunes!

      I know Joerg is working on the musical system of his British Elves, but I haven't heard
      if he's written any music from that world... I know of one or two others who have
      written some music from their worlds. Pretty wonderful stuff!

      Padraic
    • Siva Kalyan
      Are any of you familiar will Bill Sethares’ work on alternate tunings? See http://sethares.engr.wisc.edu/index.html. Not only does he create music in new
      Message 2 of 25 , Oct 30, 2013
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        Are any of you familiar will Bill Sethares’ work on alternate tunings? See http://sethares.engr.wisc.edu/index.html.

        Not only does he create music in new tunings, but he creates (digital) “instruments” in which those tunings sound consonant! He has a couple of albums exploring these.

        Siva

        On 31 October 2013 at 12:37:27, Padraic Brown (elemtilas@...) wrote:

        Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

         
        > 2013/10/20 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
        >> From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
        >>
        >>> I wonder how common it is for conlangers to create their own musical constyles.
        >
        >> Well, you're conversing with one who has! I know of several others who have
        >> done so as well. If you like, you can go to http://www.frathwiki.com/The_World
        >> and skip down to the bits about Opera and Gnomic Music. There are links to
        >> several pieces of music as well.
        >
        > Nice! I was you who played those samples?

        No! I am no great player of music at all! They were written, at first, at a small keyboard
        instrument, but eventually got transferred to computer. Better playback and easier editing!

        > They remind me of RPG computer games (although I'm not a great player of them).

        Unintentional, I assure! Though I was a fan of the old Ultima games.

        > Have you considered creating a game?

        I wouldn't really know how to begin or what ought to be done!

        > I don't know if you really wanted to send this message only to me or
        > to the whole list.

        Sorry, yes, should have gone to list...now corrected.

        I'd be interested to know about not only Elsewhere music, but Elsewhere musical
        *systems* -- genres, different scales and tunings, favored intervals / themes / chord
        structures, different schemes of instrumentation and so forth. It seems quite natural
        that among folks who not only create poetry, but entirely new languages in which
        to write poetry, more than one would create new musics in which to write songs
        or tunes!

        I know Joerg is working on the musical system of his British Elves, but I haven't heard
        if he's written any music from that world... I know of one or two others who have
        written some music from their worlds. Pretty wonderful stuff!

        Padraic
      • Jörg Rhiemeier
        Hallo conlangers! ... I haven t written any music from The Elvenpath yet; there are still many things in Old Albic music I know nothing about. For instance, I
        Message 3 of 25 , Oct 31, 2013
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          Hallo conlangers!

          On Thursday 31 October 2013 02:37:23 Padraic Brown wrote:

          > Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
          > [...]
          > > I don't know if you really wanted to send this message only to me or
          > > to the whole list.
          >
          > Sorry, yes, should have gone to list...now corrected.
          >
          > I'd be interested to know about not only Elsewhere music, but Elsewhere
          > musical *systems* -- genres, different scales and tunings, favored
          > intervals / themes / chord structures, different schemes of
          > instrumentation and so forth. It seems quite natural that among folks who
          > not only create poetry, but entirely new languages in which to write
          > poetry, more than one would create new musics in which to write songs or
          > tunes!
          >
          > I know Joerg is working on the musical system of his British Elves, but I
          > haven't heard if he's written any music from that world...

          I haven't written any music from The Elvenpath yet; there are
          still many things in Old Albic music I know nothing about.
          For instance, I haven't yet settled on a tuning system or on
          scales yet.

          > I know of one
          > or two others who have written some music from their worlds. Pretty
          > wonderful stuff!

          Yes. Herman Miller's music is just cute - as one would expect
          from the small furry creatures that populate his conworld. He
          also uses some very interesting microtonal tunings. Danny Wier,
          whom I haven't seen here for almost a decade, also once had a
          site where he presented his music. It, too, was microtonal,
          though very different in style from Herman's. Unfortunately,
          that site is gone now.

          Your samples of Gnomic music are nice to listen to!

          --
          ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
          http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
          "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
        • Padraic Brown
          ... That s okay! Some of the music I m working on now, I started to write 20 or more years ago! ... I see. Well, I certainly hope we ll hear some eventually!
          Message 4 of 25 , Oct 31, 2013
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            Adam wrote:

            >I've written a few songs in Carrajina, but alas the tunes are all
            >ripped off form sources here -- a Galician Christmas carol, a Maronite
            >chant. My one attempt at an original piece has dragged on for about 2
            >years now and is not much closer to completion.

            That's okay! Some of the music I'm working on now, I started to write 20 or
            more years ago!

            >Adam



            Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:

            >> I'd be interested to know about not only Elsewhere music, but Elsewhere
            >> musical *systems* -- genres, different scales and tunings, favored
            >> intervals / themes / chord structures, different schemes of
            >> instrumentation and so forth. It seems quite natural that among folks who
            >> not only create poetry, but entirely new languages in which to write
            >> poetry, more than one would create new musics in which to write songs or
            >> tunes!
            >>
            >> I know Joerg is working on the musical system of his British Elves, but I
            >> haven't heard if he's written any music from that world...
            >
            > I haven't written any music from The Elvenpath yet; there are
            > still many things in Old Albic music I know nothing about.
            > For instance, I haven't yet settled on a tuning system or on
            > scales yet.

            I see. Well, I certainly hope we'll hear some eventually!

            >>       I know of one
            >> or two others who have written some music from their worlds. Pretty
            >> wonderful stuff!
            >
            > Yes.  Herman Miller's music is just cute - as one would expect
            > from the small furry creatures that populate his conworld.  He
            > also uses some very interesting microtonal tunings.  Danny Wier,
            > whom I haven't seen here for almost a decade, also once had a
            > site where he presented his music.  It, too, was microtonal,
            > though very different in style from Herman's.  Unfortunately,
            > that site is gone now.

            Yes. They're the ones I was thinking about! I tried looking up Herman's
            site as well -- he does have a Youtube channel, but I don't see anything
            there that looks like Tirelat music.

            > Your samples of Gnomic music are nice to listen to!

            Thank you!

            Padraic
          • Jörg Rhiemeier
            Hallo conlangers! ... It can be found here: https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/home -- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
            Message 5 of 25 , Oct 31, 2013
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              Hallo conlangers!

              On Thursday 31 October 2013 23:17:53 Padraic Brown wrote:

              > [...]
              > > Yes. Herman Miller's music is just cute - as one would expect
              > > from the small furry creatures that populate his conworld. He
              > > also uses some very interesting microtonal tunings. Danny Wier,
              > > whom I haven't seen here for almost a decade, also once had a
              > > site where he presented his music. It, too, was microtonal,
              > > though very different in style from Herman's. Unfortunately,
              > > that site is gone now.
              >
              > Yes. They're the ones I was thinking about! I tried looking up Herman's
              > site as well -- he does have a Youtube channel, but I don't see anything
              > there that looks like Tirelat music.

              It can be found here:

              https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/home

              --
              ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
              http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
              "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
            • Herman Miller
              ... It just happens that I ve been working on some actual Tirelat music lately. Here s a preview of the vocal part.
              Message 6 of 25 , Oct 31, 2013
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                On 10/31/2013 6:23 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier wrote:
                > Hallo conlangers!
                >
                > On Thursday 31 October 2013 23:17:53 Padraic Brown wrote:
                >
                >> [...]
                >>> Yes. Herman Miller's music is just cute - as one would expect
                >>> from the small furry creatures that populate his conworld. He
                >>> also uses some very interesting microtonal tunings. Danny Wier,
                >>> whom I haven't seen here for almost a decade, also once had a
                >>> site where he presented his music. It, too, was microtonal,
                >>> though very different in style from Herman's. Unfortunately,
                >>> that site is gone now.
                >>
                >> Yes. They're the ones I was thinking about! I tried looking up Herman's
                >> site as well -- he does have a Youtube channel, but I don't see anything
                >> there that looks like Tirelat music.
                >
                > It can be found here:
                >
                > https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/home

                It just happens that I've been working on some actual Tirelat music
                lately. Here's a preview of the vocal part.

                https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/riiva.mp3

                The text is from Relay 9, and I've been experimenting with a Japanese
                singing program called Utau. It's similar to Vocaloid if you've heard of
                that, but the nice thing about it is that you can record your own voice
                samples (in any language). It's not easy to figure out, though. I
                haven't bothered trying to make it microtonal yet.

                At least it sings better than I can, even if it does sound a bit robotic
                and uneven.

                Besides the Google page, there's some information on FrathWiki about
                Zireen music:

                http://www.frathwiki.com/Zireen_music

                and an older page with some MIDI samples on my PrismNet site.

                http://www.prismnet.com/~hmiller/music/zireen-music.html
              • Jörg Rhiemeier
                Hallo conlangers! ... Nice piece! I like it. ... Yes, it sounds somewhat robotic. ... Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 4, 2013
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                  Hallo conlangers!

                  On Friday 01 November 2013 03:43:06 Herman Miller wrote:

                  > [...]
                  > It just happens that I've been working on some actual Tirelat music
                  > lately. Here's a preview of the vocal part.
                  >
                  > https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/riiva.mp3
                  >
                  > The text is from Relay 9, and I've been experimenting with a Japanese
                  > singing program called Utau. It's similar to Vocaloid if you've heard of
                  > that, but the nice thing about it is that you can record your own voice
                  > samples (in any language). It's not easy to figure out, though. I
                  > haven't bothered trying to make it microtonal yet.

                  Nice piece! I like it.

                  > At least it sings better than I can, even if it does sound a bit robotic
                  > and uneven.

                  Yes, it sounds somewhat robotic.

                  > Besides the Google page, there's some information on FrathWiki about
                  > Zireen music:
                  >
                  > http://www.frathwiki.com/Zireen_music
                  >
                  > and an older page with some MIDI samples on my PrismNet site.
                  >
                  > http://www.prismnet.com/~hmiller/music/zireen-music.html

                  Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:

                  http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch

                  I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                  lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                  that is halfways towards a tritone.

                  --
                  ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                  http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
                  "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
                • Garth Wallace
                  ... Interesting. What s the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn t develop until
                  Message 8 of 25 , Nov 5, 2013
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                    On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                    >
                    > http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch
                    >
                    > I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                    > lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                    > that is halfways towards a tritone.

                    Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                    or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                    develop until fairly late.
                  • Jörg Rhiemeier
                    Hallo conlangers! ... I don t know yet, perhaps heterophony. -- ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html Bêsel
                    Message 9 of 25 , Nov 5, 2013
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                      Hallo conlangers!

                      On Tuesday 05 November 2013 18:42:05 Garth Wallace wrote:

                      > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                      wrote:
                      > > Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                      > >
                      > > http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch
                      > >
                      > > I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                      > > lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                      > > that is halfways towards a tritone.
                      >
                      > Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                      > or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                      > develop until fairly late.

                      I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.

                      --
                      ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                      http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
                      "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
                    • Padraic Brown
                      ... That would fit nicely! Britain is still the best place (well, the Hebrides!), apart from Appalachia, to hear heterophonic psalmody:
                      Message 10 of 25 , Nov 5, 2013
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                        Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:


                        >> Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                        >> or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                        >> develop until fairly late.
                        >
                        > I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.

                        That would fit nicely! Britain is still the best place (well, the Hebrides!), apart from Appalachia, to
                        hear heterophonic psalmody:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txIx9b07RhY

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMABVIMHPkc

                        Nice choice indeed! Beautiful singing.

                        Padraic
                      • C. Brickner
                        I’ve been working on the music of Sefdaania, but it’s difficult for me, since I am only an amateur “musician”. With a modicum of music theory
                        Message 11 of 25 , Nov 5, 2013
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                          I’ve been working on the music of Sefdaania, but it’s difficult for me, since I am only an amateur “musician”. With a modicum of music theory knowledge, I can describe Sefdaanian music as monodic with an organum. I have been influenced by plainsong.
                          Sefdaanian music is hexatonic. When I work with the music, I envision a scale of three white keys and three black key: C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯. Of course, the scale can start on any key.
                          The Ethrans, the first created, sang plainsong. As each of the other peoples was created, an organum developed. The other voices sang the melody line at an interval. This evolved into three voices, each of the three suited to one of the six Peoples.
                          I don’t have a keyboard with which to practice so I could hear this.
                          Charlie

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: "Jörg Rhiemeier" <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                          To: CONLANG@...
                          Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:49:53 PM
                          Subject: Re: Music in conlangs and conworlds.

                          Hallo conlangers!

                          On Tuesday 05 November 2013 18:42:05 Garth Wallace wrote:

                          > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                          wrote:
                          > > Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                          > >
                          > > http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch
                          > >
                          > > I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                          > > lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                          > > that is halfways towards a tritone.
                          >
                          > Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                          > or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                          > develop until fairly late.

                          I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                        • Andrew Schade
                          Hey Charlie, I have been a lurker on this mailing list for a while and this seems to be a good place to start contributing. I have been working with music,
                          Message 12 of 25 , Nov 6, 2013
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                            Hey Charlie,
                            I have been a lurker on this mailing list for a while and this seems to be
                            a good place to start contributing.
                            I have been working with music, arranging parts for my school band. I also
                            do not have a keyboard, so I use a piece of software called musescore. It's
                            an open source application for music compositin, which can be used to
                            examine what you are looking at.I haven't played much with whether it can
                            easily represent scales that are not diatonic, but it will be just as easy
                            to work with as a keyboard.

                            Hoping this helps you,
                            Andrew Schade
                            t-1million.blogspot.com
                            On Nov 5, 2013 7:49 PM, "C. Brickner" <tepeyachill@...> wrote:

                            > I’ve been working on the music of Sefdaania, but it’s difficult for me,
                            > since I am only an amateur “musician”. With a modicum of music theory
                            > knowledge, I can describe Sefdaanian music as monodic with an organum. I
                            > have been influenced by plainsong.
                            > Sefdaanian music is hexatonic. When I work with the music, I envision a
                            > scale of three white keys and three black key: C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯. Of
                            > course, the scale can start on any key.
                            > The Ethrans, the first created, sang plainsong. As each of the other
                            > peoples was created, an organum developed. The other voices sang the
                            > melody line at an interval. This evolved into three voices, each of the
                            > three suited to one of the six Peoples.
                            > I don’t have a keyboard with which to practice so I could hear this.
                            > Charlie
                            >
                            > ----- Original Message -----
                            > From: "Jörg Rhiemeier" <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                            > To: CONLANG@...
                            > Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:49:53 PM
                            > Subject: Re: Music in conlangs and conworlds.
                            >
                            > Hallo conlangers!
                            >
                            > On Tuesday 05 November 2013 18:42:05 Garth Wallace wrote:
                            >
                            > > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                            > wrote:
                            > > > Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                            > > >
                            > > > http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch
                            > > >
                            > > > I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                            > > > lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                            > > > that is halfways towards a tritone.
                            > >
                            > > Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                            > > or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                            > > develop until fairly late.
                            >
                            > I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                            >
                          • Roger Mills
                            Debussy used the hexatonic scale on occasions. At what interval is their organum? In Western music, it was at the fifth, but the hex scale doesn t have a
                            Message 13 of 25 , Nov 6, 2013
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                              Debussy used the hexatonic scale on occasions.

                              At what interval is their organum? In Western music, it was at the fifth, but the hex scale doesn't have a perfect fifth. That seems a little odd, since _IIRC_ the fifth is mathmatically a very basic ratio, and the Greeks knew about it early on.




                              On Wednesday, November 6, 2013 11:11 AM, C. Brickner <tepeyachill@...> wrote:

                              I’ve been working on the music of Sefdaania, but it’s difficult for me, since I am only an amateur “musician”.  With a modicum of music theory knowledge, I can describe Sefdaanian music as monodic with an organum.  I have been influenced by plainsong.
                              Sefdaanian music is hexatonic.  When I work with the music, I envision a scale of three white keys and three black key: C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯.  Of course, the scale can start on any key.
                              The Ethrans, the first created, sang plainsong.  As each of the other peoples was created, an organum developed.  The other voices sang the melody line at an interval.  This evolved into three voices, each of the three suited to one of the six Peoples.
                              I don’t have a keyboard with which to practice so I could hear this.
                              Charlie


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: "Jörg Rhiemeier" <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                              To: CONLANG@...
                              Sent: Tuesday, November 5, 2013 3:49:53 PM
                              Subject: Re: Music in conlangs and conworlds.

                              Hallo conlangers!

                              On Tuesday 05 November 2013 18:42:05 Garth Wallace wrote:

                              > On Mon, Nov 4, 2013 at 1:10 PM, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
                              wrote:
                              > > Meanwhile, I have settled on a pitch scale for Old Albic music:
                              > >
                              > > http://www.frathwiki.com/Old_Albic_music#Pitch
                              > >
                              > > I have started experimenting with it, and I find it has some
                              > > lydian sonority to it, certainly due to the augmented fourth
                              > > that is halfways towards a tritone.
                              >
                              > Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                              > or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                              > develop until fairly late.

                              I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                            • Padraic Brown
                              ... Welcome! ... I like Musescore quite a lot. I don t think you can tune individual notes or create non-western scales, though. If you can, I haven t come
                              Message 14 of 25 , Nov 6, 2013
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                                Andrew Schade <schade.andrew.l@...> wrote:


                                > I have been a lurker on this mailing list for a while and this seems to be
                                > a good place to start contributing.

                                Welcome!

                                > I have been working with music, arranging parts for my school band. I also
                                > do not have a keyboard, so I use a piece of software called musescore. It's
                                > an open source application for music compositin, which can be used to
                                > examine what you are looking at.I haven't played much with whether it can
                                > easily represent scales that are not diatonic, but it will be just as easy
                                > to work with as a keyboard.

                                I like Musescore quite a lot. I don't think you can tune individual notes or create
                                non-western scales, though. If you can, I haven't come across that function yet!
                                There are plenty of symbols for quartertones -- half sharps and so forth -- but
                                it won't play them properly. That said, it is a nice program and is not difficult to
                                use, even if you don't have a midi keyboard for input.

                                "C. Brickner" <tepeyachill@...> wrote:
                                 
                                > I’ve been working on the music of Sefdaania, but it’s difficult for me,
                                > since I am only an amateur “musician”.  With a modicum of music theory
                                > knowledge, I can describe Sefdaanian music as monodic with an organum.  I
                                > have been influenced by plainsong.
                                > Sefdaanian music is hexatonic.  When I work with the music, I envision a
                                > scale of three white keys and three black key: C, D, E, F♯, G♯, A♯.  Of
                                > course, the scale can start on any key.

                                A whole tone scale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whole_tone_scale
                                Neat.

                                > The Ethrans, the first created, sang plainsong.  As each of the other
                                > peoples was created, an organum developed.  The other voices sang the
                                > melody line at an interval.  This evolved into three voices, each of the
                                > three suited to one of the six Peoples.
                                > I don’t have a keyboard with which to practice so I could hear this.

                                I'd second Andrew's recommendation for Musescore -- or really, any similar
                                program -- to help you visualise as well as hear what you're planning. You
                                might find the sound is spot on -- or maybe it doesn't work at all!

                                Padraic

                                > Charlie
                              • Padraic Brown
                                ... Sort of like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgVHQ6tcKVc Judging from other similar videos, you have to have a bit o something in your cup while
                                Message 15 of 25 , Nov 6, 2013
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                                  Adam Walker <carraxan@...> did scrieve:


                                  >This reminds me a bit of some of the music I've listened to from Sardinia and

                                  >Corsica in my eternal quest to figure out what Carraxan music sounds like.


                                  Sort of like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgVHQ6tcKVc

                                  Judging from other similar videos, you have to have a bit o' something in your
                                  cup while singing this style! ;)))

                                  Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAsQ1NnTj40


                                  Canto a tenore. Me, I'd like Carraxan traditional singing to sound something
                                  like these. Of course, it doesn't mean that should be the ónly style of Carraxan
                                  singing! It's a full, deep singing. I don't understand the words, but I just
                                  don't get the same very deep vibes from the art- and soulless muck you
                                  find on, for example, Idol.


                                  Like this, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLwcM6D42U


                                  It's an entirely different kind of music, but the deep energy reminds me a lot
                                  of sacred harp:

                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa8cGHlJzqE
                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoXL5PqY-w
                                  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPOo4dOuPbQ


                                  Not art music by any stretch!, so much as soul music.


                                  Padraic

                                  >Adam
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
                                  >>
                                  >>
                                  >>>>  Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                                  >>>>  or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                                  >>>>  develop until fairly late.
                                  >>>
                                  >>> I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                                  >>
                                  >>That would fit nicely! Britain is still the best place (well, the Hebrides!), apart from Appalachia, to
                                  >>hear heterophonic psalmody:
                                  >>
                                  >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txIx9b07RhY
                                  >>
                                  >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMABVIMHPkc
                                  >>
                                  >>Nice choice indeed! Beautiful singing.
                                  >>
                                  >>Padraic
                                  >>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                • Padraic Brown
                                  ... I think it must be -- different styles of song or instrumental music often exist for different purposes. ... Well, I think the music of the Liturgy will
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Nov 7, 2013
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                                    Adam Walker wrathe:


                                    >Yep, it's just that sort of thing I've been listening to.  The problem is I keep wavering between that sort
                                    >of sound and something more like Arabic music with all those lovely quarter tones.  That or Maronite
                                    >chant. 

                                    >Perhaps Carraxa is big enough for all to coexist. 


                                    I think it must be -- different styles of song or instrumental music often exist for different purposes.


                                    >However the fishing song I've been working on (Vini nal mi testa, pupa pica) which also doubles as a

                                    >flirting song.  Is melodically very simple and very Western.

                                    Well, I think the music of the Liturgy will naturally have some different inputs. Probably very much akin
                                    to the liturgical styles of early Christendom, though whether closer to the Orthodox styles of other
                                    parts of Africa, or closer to the Catholic style I couldn't say.

                                    I see no reason why several styles of music couldn't coexist, even imports from outside the culture
                                    itself.

                                    ande wewrathe Roger Mills <romiltz@...>:


                                    >Adam-- if you click on some of Padraic's links, there are other links to Orthodox, Arabic/Orthodox,

                                    >Coptic chant etc etc. Surely in Carraxa there would be Arabic, or better, Berber, influence... don't

                                    >know what we can find of Berber music. Presumably you've researched Donatism, so you must know

                                    >what musical traditions exist in it...?

                                    Lots of Berber music, and of course of differing qualities. Mostly from Morocco, but also
                                    Algeria and Tunisia...

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MjCKso2RA
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxo9BksUgSQ

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfk7D2Gp6_I
                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmqc4Qwr2g

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZRO-FhKQs

                                    These last two fellows in the souq remind me of these guys, in
                                    a certain way:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cisk_9uTW0o

                                    On Arabic liturgical chant:

                                    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSNKHk2rM4U

                                    As for "Donatist music", that I don't think is knowable. *Here*, Donatism ceased to
                                    exist as a variant (/heresy) of Christianity by the sixth century or so. Christianity itself
                                    was more or less eradicated in the region by the Moslems by the 11th or 12th. The
                                    Christianity reintroduced in the 19th was French Catholicism.

                                    One might posit that the musics of the Donatists *there* would be very similar to the
                                    musics of the locals *here*, though perhaps with a stronger stream of influence from
                                    Christian Europe than Moslem Africa / Arabia.

                                    For the terminally curious, in Avantimannish there are two basic past tense forms, the
                                    simple preterite, which is formed via ablaut, and the perfect or resultant, formed via
                                    reduplication. The latter often times has a slightly different nuance from the former.
                                    So, Adam wrathe (wrote), with the result that Roger wewrathe (responded or
                                    answered back in turn).

                                    Naturally, this goes for the regular verbs, not the derived dental class verbs.

                                    Padraic


                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >On Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:06 AM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >Adam Walker <carraxan@...> did scrieve:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >>This reminds me a bit of some of the music I've listened to from Sardinia and
                                    >
                                    >>Corsica in my eternal quest to figure out what Carraxan music sounds like.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Sort of like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgVHQ6tcKVc
                                    >
                                    >Judging from other similar videos, you have to have a bit o' something in your
                                    >cup while singing this style! ;)))
                                    >
                                    >Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAsQ1NnTj40
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Canto a tenore. Me, I'd like Carraxan traditional singing to sound something
                                    >like these. Of course, it doesn't mean that should be the ónly style of Carraxan
                                    >singing! It's a full, deep singing. I don't
                                    understand the words, but I just
                                    >don't get the same very deep vibes from the art- and soulless muck you
                                    >find on, for example, Idol.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Like this, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLwcM6D42U
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >It's an entirely different kind of music, but the deep energy reminds me a lot
                                    >of sacred harp:
                                    >
                                    >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa8cGHlJzqE
                                    >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoXL5PqY-w
                                    >http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPOo4dOuPbQ
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Not art music by any stretch!, so much as soul music.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Padraic
                                    >
                                    >>Adam
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>
                                    >>>>>  Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                                    >>>>>  or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                                    >>>>>  develop until fairly late.
                                    >>>>
                                    >>>> I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>That would fit nicely! Britain is still the best place (well, the Hebrides!), apart from Appalachia, to
                                    >>>hear heterophonic psalmody:
                                    >>>
                                    >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txIx9b07RhY
                                    >>>
                                    >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMABVIMHPkc
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Nice choice indeed! Beautiful singing.
                                    >>>
                                    >>>Padraic
                                    >>>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                  • Padraic Brown
                                    A question of nomenclature: So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of another shopper (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Nov 7, 2013
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                                      A question of nomenclature:

                                      So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of another shopper
                                      (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was bullying him that day), and one thing I
                                      noticed about his talk was the consistent use of "backing" for emphasis. His speech was
                                      full of things like "He's been bullying me all day, my brother" and "I'm really mad at him
                                      today, my brother. He's been bullying me all day." I know we often speak of "fronting"
                                      for emphasis, of the "Out the door Billy and Sally ran!" sort. But what is the proper
                                      name for the opposite? For "They ran out the door, Billy and Sally!"

                                      "Backing" I've seen as the term, among speech pathologists, for switching a back
                                      sound for a front (likkle for little, etc). So I guess thatn's taken. Any better terms out
                                      there for this kind of thing?

                                      Padraic
                                    • Ben Felix
                                      Backing would make sense, but then again, the English language, even when talking of larger Linguistic studies, is almost never that logical. To be honest, I
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Nov 7, 2013
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                                        Backing would make sense, but then again, the English language, even
                                        when talking of larger Linguistic studies, is almost never that
                                        logical. To be honest, I do not know, but it would be interesting to
                                        find.

                                        On 11/8/13, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                        > A question of nomenclature:
                                        >
                                        > So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of
                                        > another shopper
                                        > (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was bullying him that day), and one
                                        > thing I
                                        > noticed about his talk was the consistent use of "backing" for emphasis. His
                                        > speech was
                                        > full of things like "He's been bullying me all day, my brother" and "I'm
                                        > really mad at him
                                        > today, my brother. He's been bullying me all day." I know we often speak of
                                        > "fronting"
                                        > for emphasis, of the "Out the door Billy and Sally ran!" sort. But what is
                                        > the proper
                                        > name for the opposite? For "They ran out the door, Billy and Sally!"
                                        >
                                        > "Backing" I've seen as the term, among speech pathologists, for switching a
                                        > back
                                        > sound for a front (likkle for little, etc). So I guess thatn's taken. Any
                                        > better terms out
                                        > there for this kind of thing?
                                        >
                                        > Padraic
                                        >
                                      • Siva Kalyan
                                        I think the “backed” (“anti-fronted”) constituent is usually called an “antitopic” (as opposed to topic and comment) in studies of information
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Nov 7, 2013
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                                          I think the “backed” (“anti-fronted”) constituent is usually called an “antitopic” (as opposed to topic and comment) in studies of information structure, or a “mneme” in Systemic Functional Grammar (as opposed to “theme” and “rheme”, respectively).

                                          That’s all I know.

                                          On 8 November 2013 at 15:06:58, Ben Felix (buddyltd@...) wrote:

                                          Backing would make sense, but then again, the English language, even
                                          when talking of larger Linguistic studies, is almost never that
                                          logical. To be honest, I do not know, but it would be interesting to
                                          find.

                                          On 11/8/13, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                          > A question of nomenclature:
                                          >
                                          > So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of
                                          > another shopper
                                          > (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was bullying him that day), and one
                                          > thing I
                                          > noticed about his talk was the consistent use of "backing" for emphasis. His
                                          > speech was
                                          > full of things like "He's been bullying me all day, my brother" and "I'm
                                          > really mad at him
                                          > today, my brother. He's been bullying me all day." I know we often speak of
                                          > "fronting"
                                          > for emphasis, of the "Out the door Billy and Sally ran!" sort. But what is
                                          > the proper
                                          > name for the opposite? For "They ran out the door, Billy and Sally!"
                                          >
                                          > "Backing" I've seen as the term, among speech pathologists, for switching a
                                          > back
                                          > sound for a front (likkle for little, etc). So I guess thatn's taken. Any
                                          > better terms out
                                          > there for this kind of thing?
                                          >
                                          > Padraic
                                          >
                                        • Siva Kalyan
                                          P.S. The standard term for “backing” is probably “right-dislocation”, just as fronting is also called “left-dislocation”. The terminology, of
                                          Message 20 of 25 , Nov 7, 2013
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                                            P.S. The standard term for “backing” is probably “right-dislocation”, just as fronting is also called “left-dislocation”. The terminology, of course, comes from transformational grammar.

                                            On 8 November 2013 at 17:08:09, Siva Kalyan (sivakalyan.princeton@...) wrote:

                                            I think the “backed” (“anti-fronted”) constituent is usually called an “antitopic” (as opposed to topic and comment) in studies of information structure, or a “mneme” in Systemic Functional Grammar (as opposed to “theme” and “rheme”, respectively).

                                            That’s all I know.

                                            On 8 November 2013 at 15:06:58, Ben Felix (buddyltd@...) wrote:

                                            Backing would make sense, but then again, the English language, even
                                            when talking of larger Linguistic studies, is almost never that
                                            logical. To be honest, I do not know, but it would be interesting to
                                            find.

                                            On 11/8/13, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                            > A question of nomenclature:
                                            >
                                            > So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of
                                            > another shopper
                                            > (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was bullying him that day), and one
                                            > thing I
                                            > noticed about his talk was the consistent use of "backing" for emphasis. His
                                            > speech was
                                            > full of things like "He's been bullying me all day, my brother" and "I'm
                                            > really mad at him
                                            > today, my brother. He's been bullying me all day." I know we often speak of
                                            > "fronting"
                                            > for emphasis, of the "Out the door Billy and Sally ran!" sort. But what is
                                            > the proper
                                            > name for the opposite? For "They ran out the door, Billy and Sally!"
                                            >
                                            > "Backing" I've seen as the term, among speech pathologists, for switching a
                                            > back
                                            > sound for a front (likkle for little, etc). So I guess thatn's taken. Any
                                            > better terms out
                                            > there for this kind of thing?
                                            >
                                            > Padraic
                                            >
                                          • R A Brown
                                            ... Yes, _right dislocation_ is defined by Trask as: [a] construction in which some constituent occurs at the end of the sentence, its canonical position
                                            Message 21 of 25 , Nov 8, 2013
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                                              On 08/11/2013 06:08, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                                              > P.S. The standard term for “backing” is probably
                                              > “right-dislocation”,

                                              Yes, _right dislocation_ is defined by Trask as: "[a]
                                              construction in which some constituent occurs at the end of
                                              the sentence, its canonical position being occupied by
                                              *pro-form*: _She's very clever, Lisa_." Right dislocations
                                              are sometimes called 'afterthought constructions'."

                                              > just as fronting is also called “left-dislocation”.

                                              Yes, again quoting Trask: "A *dislocation* in which some
                                              element is displaced to the front of the sentence, its
                                              normal position being occupied by an *anaphor* (sense 1), as
                                              in _Lisa, I like her."

                                              > The terminology, of course, comes from transformational
                                              > grammar.

                                              Probably so, tho Trask makes no mention of that.

                                              [snip]

                                              --
                                              Ray
                                              ==================================
                                              http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                              ==================================
                                              If /ni/ can change into /ɑ/, then practically
                                              anything can change into anything.
                                              [YUEN REN CHAO]
                                            • Padraic Brown
                                              ... Goodness! That sounds positively orthopaedic! So, left dislocation is the same as fronting? And right dislocation would be tacking the emphatic on the end
                                              Message 22 of 25 , Nov 8, 2013
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                                                And Rosta <and.rosta@...> wrathe:


                                                > left- and right- dislocation

                                                Goodness! That sounds positively orthopaedic!

                                                So, left dislocation is the same as fronting? And right dislocation would be
                                                tacking the emphatic on the end or right side of the sentence?

                                                Padraic

                                                >
                                                >
                                                > Padraic Brown, On 08/11/2013 03:19:
                                                >> A question of nomenclature:
                                                >>
                                                >> So, I was in the grocery the other day and overheard the soliloquy of
                                                > another shopper
                                                >> (greatly annoyed by the way his brother was bullying him that day), and one
                                                > thing I
                                                >> noticed about his talk was the consistent use of "backing" for
                                                > emphasis. His speech was
                                                >> full of things like "He's been bullying me all day, my
                                                > brother" and "I'm really mad at him
                                                >> today, my brother. He's been bullying me all day." I know we often
                                                > speak of "fronting"
                                                >> for emphasis, of the "Out the door Billy and Sally ran!" sort.
                                                > But what is the proper
                                                >> name for the opposite? For "They ran out the door, Billy and
                                                > Sally!"
                                                >>
                                                >> "Backing" I've seen as the term, among speech pathologists,
                                                > for switching a back
                                                >> sound for a front (likkle for little, etc). So I guess thatn's taken.
                                                > Any better terms out
                                                >> there for this kind of thing?
                                                >>
                                                >> Padraic
                                                >>
                                                >
                                              • And Rosta
                                                ... be ... Yes. I ve always thought the standard terms inapt, because nothing is dislocated (or fronted or backed). I d prefer to call them topic tags , and
                                                Message 23 of 25 , Nov 8, 2013
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                                                  On 8 Nov 2013 13:36, "Padraic Brown" <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > And Rosta <and.rosta@...> wrathe:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > > left- and right- dislocation
                                                  >
                                                  > Goodness! That sounds positively orthopaedic!
                                                  >
                                                  > So, left dislocation is the same as fronting? And right dislocation would
                                                  be
                                                  > tacking the emphatic on the end or right side of the sentence?

                                                  Yes. I've always thought the standard terms inapt, because nothing is
                                                  dislocated (or fronted or backed). I'd prefer to call them "topic tags",
                                                  and distinguish "fore-tags" and "after-tags".

                                                  For your delectation, I'll mention that in my dialect an after-tag may
                                                  follow a tag-statement, and each may be referentially dependent on the
                                                  main-clause subject, as well as the more usual vice versa, allowing:
                                                  Padraic's crazy, (he is,) (him).
                                                  He's crazy, Padraic is.
                                                  He's crazy, (he is,) (Padraic).
                                                  He's crazy, (he is,) (him).
                                                  alongside the inverted tag-statement version:
                                                  He's crazy, is Padraic.

                                                  Brackets mark optionality.

                                                  --And.
                                                • Jörg Rhiemeier
                                                  Hallo conlangers! ... Right-dislocations happened frequently in the (imagined) prehistory of my conlang Old Albic, probably under the influence of the Razaric
                                                  Message 24 of 25 , Nov 8, 2013
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                                                    Hallo conlangers!

                                                    On Friday 08 November 2013 11:12:01 R A Brown wrote:

                                                    > On 08/11/2013 06:08, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                                                    > > P.S. The standard term for “backing” is probably
                                                    > > “right-dislocation”,
                                                    >
                                                    > Yes, _right dislocation_ is defined by Trask as: "[a]
                                                    > construction in which some constituent occurs at the end of
                                                    > the sentence, its canonical position being occupied by
                                                    > *pro-form*: _She's very clever, Lisa_." Right dislocations
                                                    > are sometimes called 'afterthought constructions'."

                                                    Right-dislocations happened frequently in the (imagined)
                                                    prehistory of my conlang Old Albic, probably under the
                                                    influence of the Razaric (Dwarvish) languages, which appear
                                                    to have always been VSO. Proto-Hesperic almost certainly
                                                    was a SOV language with postpositions and all that; what
                                                    happened in (Pre-)Proto-Albic was that verb arguments and
                                                    noun modifiers were right-dislocated so frequently that
                                                    this became the normal order, such that Proto-Albic became
                                                    a VSO language. So a sentence such as

                                                    (1) Imethasa o ndaro nardo em ndisem phinem.
                                                    AOR-kiss-3SG:P-3SG:A the:M.AGT man.AGT strong-M-AGT
                                                    the:F-OBJ woman-OBJ beautiful-F-OBJ
                                                    'The strong man kissed the beautiful woman.'

                                                    would originally have meant something like

                                                    (1') 'He kissed her, the man, the strong one, the woman,
                                                    the beautiful one.'

                                                    --
                                                    ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
                                                    http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
                                                    "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
                                                  • Padraic Brown
                                                    ... I can certainly see how this could be a problem! I like a lot of the music that s been discussed of late as well, but all of it can t be used by one,
                                                    Message 25 of 25 , Nov 8, 2013
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                                                      >Hrrrmmm.  Anywho, I have/have listened to a good deal of such music.  I love it all, which is part of
                                                      >the problem.  I like all of it. 

                                                      I can certainly see how this could be a problem! I like a lot of the music that's been discussed of late as
                                                      well, but all of it can't be used by one, relatively small, culture.

                                                      >And, yes, a plurality of Carraxans are Donatists, the next largest group are the Catholics, but there are
                                                      >also significant groups of Iconoclast
                                                      Greeks, Copts, Muslims and Jews.  So there is room for a great
                                                      >many
                                                      influences.  I rather imagine, at times, that Carraxan music is somewhat like Spanish music due to
                                                      >the similar blending of cultures, though
                                                      perhaps a touch more Eastern leaning.  I just lack the skill to
                                                      >craft
                                                      tunes so different from the melodic traditions I grew up with.  I love
                                                      and enjoy them, I just can't
                                                      >write them, yet.

                                                      Certainly good fodder for the mix!

                                                      >Adam who should be filling orders and/or NaNoing

                                                      Well, one sounds dreadfully boring. I'd definitely suggest continuing with consideration of C. music! Or
                                                      nanoing, for second preference.

                                                      Padraic


                                                      >On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:05 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                                      >
                                                      >Adam Walker wrathe:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>Yep, it's just that sort of thing I've been listening to.  The problem is I keep wavering between that sort
                                                      >>>of sound and something more like Arabic music with all those lovely quarter tones.  That or Maronite
                                                      >>>chant. 
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>Perhaps Carraxa is big enough for all to coexist. 
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>I think it must be -- different styles of song or instrumental music often exist for different purposes.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>However the fishing song I've been working on (Vini nal mi testa, pupa pica) which also doubles as a
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>flirting song.  Is melodically very simple and very Western.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>Well, I think the music of the Liturgy will naturally have some different inputs. Probably very much akin
                                                      >>to the liturgical styles of early Christendom, though whether closer to the Orthodox styles of other
                                                      >>parts of Africa, or closer to the Catholic style I couldn't say.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>I see no reason why several styles of music couldn't coexist, even imports from outside the culture
                                                      >>itself.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>ande wewrathe Roger Mills <romiltz@...>:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>Adam-- if you click on some of Padraic's links, there are other links to Orthodox, Arabic/Orthodox,
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>Coptic chant etc etc. Surely in Carraxa there would be Arabic, or better, Berber, influence... don't
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>know what we can find of Berber music. Presumably you've researched Donatism, so you must know
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>what musical traditions exist in it...?
                                                      >>
                                                      >>Lots of Berber music, and of course of differing qualities. Mostly from Morocco, but also
                                                      >>Algeria and Tunisia...
                                                      >>
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5MjCKso2RA
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxo9BksUgSQ
                                                      >>
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfk7D2Gp6_I
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRmqc4Qwr2g
                                                      >>
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbZRO-FhKQs
                                                      >>
                                                      >>These last two fellows in the souq remind me of these guys, in
                                                      >>a certain way:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cisk_9uTW0o
                                                      >>
                                                      >>On Arabic liturgical chant:
                                                      >>
                                                      >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSNKHk2rM4U
                                                      >>
                                                      >>As for "Donatist music", that I don't think is knowable. *Here*, Donatism ceased to
                                                      >>exist as a variant (/heresy) of Christianity by the sixth century or so. Christianity itself
                                                      >>was more or less eradicated in the region by the Moslems by the 11th or 12th. The
                                                      >>Christianity reintroduced in the 19th was French Catholicism.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>One might posit that the musics of the Donatists *there* would be very similar to the
                                                      >>musics of the locals *here*, though perhaps with a stronger stream of influence from
                                                      >>Christian Europe than Moslem Africa / Arabia.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>For the terminally curious, in Avantimannish there are two basic past tense forms, the
                                                      >>simple preterite, which is formed via ablaut, and the perfect or resultant, formed via
                                                      >>reduplication. The latter often times has a slightly different nuance from the former.
                                                      >>So, Adam wrathe (wrote), with the result that Roger wewrathe (responded or
                                                      >>answered back in turn).
                                                      >>
                                                      >>Naturally, this goes for the regular verbs, not the derived dental class verbs.
                                                      >>
                                                      >>Padraic
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>On Thursday, November 7, 2013 9:06 AM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Adam Walker <carraxan@...> did scrieve:
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>>This reminds me a bit of some of the music I've listened to from Sardinia and
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>>Corsica in my eternal quest to figure out what Carraxan music sounds like.
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Sort of like this?  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgVHQ6tcKVc
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Judging from other similar videos, you have to have a bit o' something in your
                                                      >>>cup while singing this style! ;)))
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Or this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yAsQ1NnTj40
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Canto a tenore. Me, I'd like Carraxan traditional singing to sound something
                                                      >>>like these. Of course, it doesn't mean that should be the ónly style of Carraxan
                                                      >>>singing! It's a full, deep singing. I don't
                                                      >>understand the words, but I just
                                                      >>>don't get the same very deep vibes from the art- and soulless muck you
                                                      >>>find on, for example, Idol.
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Like this, too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pLwcM6D42U
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>It's an entirely different kind of music, but the deep energy reminds me a lot
                                                      >>>of sacred harp:
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wa8cGHlJzqE
                                                      >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOoXL5PqY-w
                                                      >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPOo4dOuPbQ
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Not art music by any stretch!, so much as soul music.
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>Padraic
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>>Adam
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>>>  Interesting. What's the usual texture of Albic music? Monophony, with
                                                      >>>>>>>  or without a drone? Heterophony? Probably not homophony; that didn't
                                                      >>>>>>>  develop until fairly late.
                                                      >>>>>>
                                                      >>>>>> I don't know yet, perhaps heterophony.
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>That would fit nicely! Britain is still the best place (well, the Hebrides!), apart from Appalachia, to
                                                      >>>>>hear heterophonic psalmody:
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txIx9b07RhY
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMABVIMHPkc
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>Nice choice indeed! Beautiful singing.
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>>Padraic
                                                      >>>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>>
                                                      >>
                                                      >
                                                      >
                                                      >
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