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Re: THEORY: Native languages of the Americas in popular music

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  • James Kane
    I had never heard of them! Which is a shame. Maybe they do and I just haven t heard of them; I mainly listen to rock, classic rock or (unwillingly) pop radio
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 3, 2013
      I had never heard of them! Which is a shame. Maybe they do and I just haven't heard of them; I mainly listen to rock, classic rock or (unwillingly) pop radio stations. I might see if any of my friends have heard of them.

      Sent from my iPhone

      > On 4/10/2013, at 3:51 am, "Krista D. Casada" <kcasada@...> wrote:
      >
      > Does Te Vaka get much airtime in New Zealand?
      >
      > Krista Casada
      > ________________________________________
      > From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf of James Kane [kanejam@...]
      > Sent: Thursday, October 03, 2013 3:16 AM
      > To: CONLANG@...
      > Subject: Re: THEORY: Native languages of the Americas in popular music
      >
      > The [ɨ] is very distinctive in song!
      >
      > In New Zealand, Māori is unfortunately poorly represented in pop
      > music, with the last big hit that I can think of in 1984:
      > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQLUygS0IAQ. Before the 60s, when
      > people became more interested in music that would be received well
      > overseas, music in Māori was quite common. Although there have been
      > hordes of very talented Māori musicians over the years with maybe a
      > song or two in Māori, most music is solely in English.
      >
      >
      > James
      >
      >> On 10/3/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
      >> I think that songs in Guarani are not only "folk music" in Paraguay,
      >> but "popular music", because they are in the music industry of that
      >> country, with professional production, video clips, etc. There's even
      >> a music genre called "guarania".
      >>
      >> E.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_So2t21pms0
      >>
      >> Are there other similar examples? Or is it part of the unique history
      >> of Guarani among all native languages of the Americas? (Isn't really
      >> there a gentilic for "the Americas" in English? Can I use "American"?)
      >>
      >> BTW, I remember having heard an explanation for the difference in the
      >> fates of American and African languages: the Americas were "new
      >> Europes" while Africa environment was much more hostile to Europeans ;
      >> European diseases killed native Americans while African diseases
      >> killed Europeans. I don't if it's the preferred explanation nowadays.
      >>
      >> Até mais!
      >>
      >> Leonardo
      >
      >
      > --
      > (This is my signature.)
    • Leonardo Castro
      ... Based on these examples, I still find Guarania style more similar to Portuguese music. The same for the Brazilian style Choro , as you can verify in this
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 4, 2013
        2013/10/2 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
        >>> The instrumental and general músical influence in both is clearly Iberian;
        >
        >>
        >> They resemble Portuguese style "Fado" in a bit of melancholy, although
        >> fados are clearly more melancholic.
        >
        > And naturally, that particular "Iberian" sound I'm hearing as Spanish and you're
        > hearing as Portuguese really stems from North African Moorish music! ---
        >
        > Awesome Spanish guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cv2Fyjk0GGM
        >
        > now some Portuguese guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vat6Y0Vua0
        >
        > and now some Moroccan: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmlzEEKbfXU

        Based on these examples, I still find Guarania style more similar to
        Portuguese music. The same for the Brazilian style "Choro", as you can
        verify in this beautiful song composed by João Pernambuco, son of
        Portuguese father and Indigenous mother:

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KO0rkOAiig

        [...]

        >>
        >> A proof that Paraguayan music has some songs worth knowing is that it
        >> has alrady called the attention even of Japanese people on the other
        >> side of the globe:
        >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkKB1w_9hc
        >
        > Nice indeed! Though for harp, I still prefer O'Carolan:
        >
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOVRZdKRrwg

        I would never identify an harp there if you didn't tell it. Maybe an
        harpsichord...

        [...]

        >> You probably know or recognize the melodies of the songs "El condor
        >> pasa"
        >
        > Sure famous tune. Probably one of the prettiest ever constructed. Simon and
        > Garfunkel seem to have popularised that one in the US.

        Yes. And now, Jennifer Lopez has the melody of "Llorando se fue" in
        the beginning song "On the floor".

        >> However, I was looking for songs sung in Native American *languages*.
        >
        > Not sure if something like this would count: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ug2TrGD7INY
        >
        > I guess this would: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrLL8n4fIe8

        Interesting! Which language is that?

        > Some Anglo-Inuit fusion: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtNuELl5he0
        >
        > Take a look here:
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Native_American_musicians#New_age_and_world_music

        Wow! I'll have a hard time finding which of them really sing in native
        languages (I guess it's not the case of Ben Harper and Jimi Hendrix).

        >
        >> In this song performed by the Carlos Santana band, they start with
        >> some text that is presumably in some Mexican language, but I have no
        >> idea of which one:
        >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxznQ2ubZQ
        >
        > Looks like Spanish mixed with something. I've seen hints that it may be African of some
        > kind.

        I've found this transcription:

        "Deja ja ya mig sin ella no somona
        Deja ya migo sin ella no somona
        Tika n'gai wa yo
        Simba n'gai wa yo yaya"

        http://www.songsterr.com/a/wsa/carlos-santana-da-le-yaleo-tab-g-s18476

        I could interpret the sentence in the lines 1-2 as "deja ya, amigo,
        sin ella no somos nada" (?!?!), but the lines 3-4 are clearly not
        Spanish, and I don't think that that "simba" is "lion" in Swahili.

        [...]

        2013/10/3 James Kane <kanejam@...>:
        > The [ɨ] is very distinctive in song!

        Indeed!

        And, if one wants to know Guarani orthography and phonology, that "Che
        pykasumi" videoke is the best practical guide I've seen so far.

        >
        > In New Zealand, Māori is unfortunately poorly represented in pop
        > music, with the last big hit that I can think of in 1984:
        > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQLUygS0IAQ. Before the 60s, when

        This video clip has something of Village People and Michael Jackson in it.

        [...]

        2013/10/3 Jyri Lehtinen <lehtinen.jyri@...>:
        > I guess you should also consider the musical scene when assessing the
        > vitality of a language. At least music is often used in language
        > revitalisation projects.
        >
        > Around here you can find really varying music in Saami (mostly North
        > Saami), e.g. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiQ9pQGQKWE. There's also this
        > guy who does rap in Inari Saami, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-56xy7NhAm4.

        This one is also nice:
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46WW3D5a_TU

        [...]

        Até mais!

        Leonardo
      • Leonardo Castro
        I just found this Rap song, in some kind of Guarani, produced by CUFA, an organization of favelas: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbhGYfDmQg Até mais!
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 16, 2013
          I just found this Rap song, in some kind of Guarani, produced by CUFA,
          an organization of favelas:
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbhGYfDmQg

          Até mais!

          Leonardo


          2013/10/2 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
          > 2013/10/2 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
          >>> I think that songs in Guarani are not only "folk music" in Paraguay,
          >>
          >>> but "popular music", because they are in the music industry of that
          >>> country, with professional production, video clips, etc. There's even
          >>> a music genre called "guarania".
          >>>
          >>> E.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_So2t21pms0
          >>
          >> Sounds a bit Philippines! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8cNQwonh4&list=PLBFA09A0AE36611AD
          >>
          >> The instrumental and general músical influence in both is clearly Iberian;
          >
          > They resemble Portuguese style "Fado" in a bit of melancholy, although
          > fados are clearly more melancholic.
          >
          >> the melodic particulars are clearly native.
          >
          > It's interesting that guaranias are also very successful in the
          > panorama of Brazilian "country music" ("música sertaneja"), but they
          > are sung in Portuguese: some are versions of songs in Guarani or
          > Spanish, but others are composed already in Portuguese.
          >
          > A proof that Paraguayan music has some songs worth knowing is that it
          > has alrady called the attention even of Japanese people on the other
          > side of the globe:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkKB1w_9hc
          >
          > BTW, Japanese people playing Tango is also interesting:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JH8Thx7ieE
          >
          > They say that, no matter what you do, a Japanese is probably doing
          > better than you... :-)
          >
          >>
          >>> Are there other similar examples? Or is it part of the unique history
          >>
          >> Of course. Almost every folk music in the world has been, to some extent or
          >> other, industrialised. Consider the above examples from the Philippines.
          >> Consider Celtic rock: an admixture of bagpipes, electric basses and girls
          >> wearing kilts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueQEeLOy8o
          >
          > For the first time, I find that skirts made girls less feminine!
          >
          >>
          >> At least here, there's no girls wearing kilts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAgQjAF5yM
          >>
          >> How about some Mongolian rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkqVK0AzEk&list=PL8D7F196488FD0242
          >>
          >>> of Guarani among all native languages of the Americas?
          >>
          >> Natives up north have fusional music too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RxtaDzJOhY&list=PL376D032F8FA0AB8D
          >> and here we fuse North American, South American (note the toyo at 0:45) and rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BLWUhSKL8
          >
          > Interesting indeed!
          >
          > You probably know or recognize the melodies of the songs "El condor
          > pasa" and "Llorando se fue", both with great influence of indigenous
          > music of South American peoples.
          >
          > However, I was looking for songs sung in Native American *languages*.
          > In this song performed by the Carlos Santana band, they start with
          > some text that is presumably in some Mexican language, but I have no
          > idea of which one:
          > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxznQ2ubZQ
          >
          >>
          >>> (Isn't really there a gentilic for "the Americas" in English? Can I use "American"?)
          >>
          >> Which Americans? We use that word so indiscriminately. You can certainly use "American" for
          >> whatever purpose you like. I do think "most people" will understand you first as meaning
          >> "people from the US", and only secondarily as anyone else from continental America (except
          >> for the Miquelonnaises, who are, of course, Europeans, on account of being French). "North
          >> American" and "South American" tend to alleviate that confusion, though.
          >
          > Not if I want to refer to native people of the whole American
          > continent indistinguishably. "Native Pan-American" doesn't sound
          > totally adequate.
          >
          >>
          >> Padraic
          >>
          >>> Até mais!
          >>>
          >>> Leonardo
          >>>
        • Padraic Brown
           From: Leonardo Castro   ... Just goes to show, rap sucks in any language. Padraic
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 16, 2013
             From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>

             
            > I just found this Rap song, in some kind of Guarani, produced by CUFA,
            > an organization of favelas:
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbhGYfDmQg

            Just goes to show, rap sucks in any language.

            Padraic

            >
            > Até mais!
            >
            > Leonardo
            >
            >
            > 2013/10/2 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
            >> 2013/10/2 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
            >>>> I think that songs in Guarani are not only "folk music"
            > in Paraguay,
            >>>
            >>>> but "popular music", because they are in the music
            > industry of that
            >>>> country, with professional production, video clips, etc.
            > There's even
            >>>> a music genre called "guarania".
            >>>>
            >>>> E.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_So2t21pms0
            >>>
            >>> Sounds a bit Philippines!
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8cNQwonh4&list=PLBFA09A0AE36611AD
            >>>
            >>> The instrumental and general músical influence in both is clearly
            > Iberian;
            >>
            >> They resemble Portuguese style "Fado" in a bit of melancholy,
            > although
            >> fados are clearly more melancholic.
            >>
            >>> the melodic particulars are clearly native.
            >>
            >> It's interesting that guaranias are also very successful in the
            >> panorama of Brazilian "country music" ("música
            > sertaneja"), but they
            >> are sung in Portuguese: some are versions of songs in Guarani or
            >> Spanish, but others are composed already in Portuguese.
            >>
            >> A proof that Paraguayan music has some songs worth knowing is that it
            >> has alrady called the attention even of Japanese people on the other
            >> side of the globe:
            >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkKB1w_9hc
            >>
            >> BTW, Japanese people playing Tango is also interesting:
            >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JH8Thx7ieE
            >>
            >> They say that, no matter what you do, a Japanese is probably doing
            >> better than you... :-)
            >>
            >>>
            >>>> Are there other similar examples? Or is it part of the unique
            > history
            >>>
            >>> Of course. Almost every folk music in the world has been, to some
            > extent or
            >>> other, industrialised. Consider the above examples from the
            > Philippines.
            >>> Consider Celtic rock: an admixture of bagpipes, electric basses and
            > girls
            >>> wearing kilts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueQEeLOy8o
            >>
            >> For the first time, I find that skirts made girls less feminine!
            >>
            >>>
            >>> At least here, there's no girls wearing kilts:
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAgQjAF5yM
            >>>
            >>> How about some Mongolian rock:
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkqVK0AzEk&list=PL8D7F196488FD0242
            >>>
            >>>> of Guarani among all native languages of the Americas?
            >>>
            >>> Natives up north have fusional music too:
            > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RxtaDzJOhY&list=PL376D032F8FA0AB8D
            >>> and here we fuse North American, South American (note the toyo at 0:45)
            > and rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BLWUhSKL8
            >>
            >> Interesting indeed!
            >>
            >> You probably know or recognize the melodies of the songs "El condor
            >> pasa" and "Llorando se fue", both with great influence of
            > indigenous
            >> music of South American peoples.
            >>
            >> However, I was looking for songs sung in Native American *languages*.
            >> In this song performed by the Carlos Santana band, they start with
            >> some text that is presumably in some Mexican language, but I have no
            >> idea of which one:
            >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxznQ2ubZQ
            >>
            >>>
            >>>> (Isn't really there a gentilic for "the Americas" in
            > English? Can I use "American"?)
            >>>
            >>> Which Americans? We use that word so indiscriminately. You can
            > certainly use "American" for
            >>> whatever purpose you like. I do think "most people" will
            > understand you first as meaning
            >>> "people from the US", and only secondarily as anyone else
            > from continental America (except
            >>> for the Miquelonnaises, who are, of course, Europeans, on account of
            > being French). "North
            >>> American" and "South American" tend to alleviate that
            > confusion, though.
            >>
            >> Not if I want to refer to native people of the whole American
            >> continent indistinguishably. "Native Pan-American" doesn't
            > sound
            >> totally adequate.
            >>
            >>>
            >>> Padraic
            >>>
            >>>> Até mais!
            >>>>
            >>>> Leonardo
            >>>>
            >
          • Leonardo Castro
            ... Maybe being so simple and easy to be sung and produced is what make Rap likely to be adopted by many musically uneducated people from remote areas.
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 17, 2013
              2013/10/16 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
              > From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
              >
              >
              >> I just found this Rap song, in some kind of Guarani, produced by CUFA,
              >> an organization of favelas:
              >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbhGYfDmQg
              >
              > Just goes to show, rap sucks in any language.

              Maybe being so simple and easy to be sung and produced is what make
              Rap likely to be adopted by many musically uneducated people from
              remote areas. Besides, it fits their desire to blame society for their
              exclusion, independently of whether the accusations are fair or not.

              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsV4GWTF418

              Até mais!

              Leonardo

              >
              > Padraic
              >
              >>
              >> Até mais!
              >>
              >> Leonardo
              >>
              >>
              >> 2013/10/2 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
              >>> 2013/10/2 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
              >>>>> I think that songs in Guarani are not only "folk music"
              >> in Paraguay,
              >>>>
              >>>>> but "popular music", because they are in the music
              >> industry of that
              >>>>> country, with professional production, video clips, etc.
              >> There's even
              >>>>> a music genre called "guarania".
              >>>>>
              >>>>> E.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_So2t21pms0
              >>>>
              >>>> Sounds a bit Philippines!
              >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8cNQwonh4&list=PLBFA09A0AE36611AD
              >>>>
              >>>> The instrumental and general músical influence in both is clearly
              >> Iberian;
              >>>
              >>> They resemble Portuguese style "Fado" in a bit of melancholy,
              >> although
              >>> fados are clearly more melancholic.
              >>>
              >>>> the melodic particulars are clearly native.
              >>>
              >>> It's interesting that guaranias are also very successful in the
              >>> panorama of Brazilian "country music" ("música
              >> sertaneja"), but they
              >>> are sung in Portuguese: some are versions of songs in Guarani or
              >>> Spanish, but others are composed already in Portuguese.
              >>>
              >>> A proof that Paraguayan music has some songs worth knowing is that it
              >>> has alrady called the attention even of Japanese people on the other
              >>> side of the globe:
              >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkKB1w_9hc
              >>>
              >>> BTW, Japanese people playing Tango is also interesting:
              >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JH8Thx7ieE
              >>>
              >>> They say that, no matter what you do, a Japanese is probably doing
              >>> better than you... :-)
              >>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> Are there other similar examples? Or is it part of the unique
              >> history
              >>>>
              >>>> Of course. Almost every folk music in the world has been, to some
              >> extent or
              >>>> other, industrialised. Consider the above examples from the
              >> Philippines.
              >>>> Consider Celtic rock: an admixture of bagpipes, electric basses and
              >> girls
              >>>> wearing kilts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueQEeLOy8o
              >>>
              >>> For the first time, I find that skirts made girls less feminine!
              >>>
              >>>>
              >>>> At least here, there's no girls wearing kilts:
              >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAgQjAF5yM
              >>>>
              >>>> How about some Mongolian rock:
              >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkqVK0AzEk&list=PL8D7F196488FD0242
              >>>>
              >>>>> of Guarani among all native languages of the Americas?
              >>>>
              >>>> Natives up north have fusional music too:
              >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RxtaDzJOhY&list=PL376D032F8FA0AB8D
              >>>> and here we fuse North American, South American (note the toyo at 0:45)
              >> and rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BLWUhSKL8
              >>>
              >>> Interesting indeed!
              >>>
              >>> You probably know or recognize the melodies of the songs "El condor
              >>> pasa" and "Llorando se fue", both with great influence of
              >> indigenous
              >>> music of South American peoples.
              >>>
              >>> However, I was looking for songs sung in Native American *languages*.
              >>> In this song performed by the Carlos Santana band, they start with
              >>> some text that is presumably in some Mexican language, but I have no
              >>> idea of which one:
              >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxznQ2ubZQ
              >>>
              >>>>
              >>>>> (Isn't really there a gentilic for "the Americas" in
              >> English? Can I use "American"?)
              >>>>
              >>>> Which Americans? We use that word so indiscriminately. You can
              >> certainly use "American" for
              >>>> whatever purpose you like. I do think "most people" will
              >> understand you first as meaning
              >>>> "people from the US", and only secondarily as anyone else
              >> from continental America (except
              >>>> for the Miquelonnaises, who are, of course, Europeans, on account of
              >> being French). "North
              >>>> American" and "South American" tend to alleviate that
              >> confusion, though.
              >>>
              >>> Not if I want to refer to native people of the whole American
              >>> continent indistinguishably. "Native Pan-American" doesn't
              >> sound
              >>> totally adequate.
              >>>
              >>>>
              >>>> Padraic
              >>>>
              >>>>> Até mais!
              >>>>>
              >>>>> Leonardo
              >>>>>
              >>
            • Padraic Brown
              From: Leonardo Castro   ... No, I really don t think it s anything other than the overwhelming presence of everything horrid about US
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 17, 2013
                From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>

                 
                > 2013/10/16 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
                >>   From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
                >>
                >>
                >>> I just found this Rap song, in some kind of Guarani, produced by CUFA,
                >>> an organization of favelas:
                >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLbhGYfDmQg
                >>
                >> Just goes to show, rap sucks in any language.
                >
                > Maybe being so simple and easy to be sung and produced is what make
                > Rap likely to be adopted by many musically uneducated people from
                > remote areas.

                No, I really don't think it's anything other than the overwhelming presence of
                everything horrid about US American culture being exported to the rest of the
                world.

                In reality, music and singing are every bit as native to the human soul and
                mind as language itself and every culture on the planet expresses its deepest
                thoughts and emotions via song / music as well as story / speech.

                Rap is no easier to sing or produce than any other kind of music. It dóes,
                however, work better in English, if for no other reason than its mechanics
                were conceived and devised with English word structure (lots of monosyllables)
                and stress patterns and rhyme patterns and so forth in mind. I will grant that
                it's *almost impossible* to sound bad rapping:

                http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Gy6FEk3ZPw

                To be honest, I can't tell if this guy is really bad or not... he sounds about the
                same as all the other cRAPpers out there!

                I think these folks in remote areas are emulating it simply because they have
                been exposed to it, and it's a part of American pop culture, so it's heard on
                television, radio, and the internet.

                It's still horrid, mind. I guess if we're going down, we'll drag the rest of you
                down with us! ;))

                > Besides, it fits their desire to blame society for their
                > exclusion, independently of whether the accusations are fair or not.
                >
                > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsV4GWTF418

                "la calidad de esa musica un asco... puro ganster... por lo menos
                hubieran hecho
                representar bien el Hip Hop boliviano... ese es rap
                paceño--- y ese rap es muy bajo
                en cultura..." If I understood that right, spot on! Bas couture indeed!

                By the way, what a video! Guy's speaking Spanish, it's dubbed in English and the
                subtitles are Mandarin! Talk about polyglossia!

                Padraic

                >
                > Até mais!
                >
                >
                > Leonardo
                >
                >>
                >> Padraic
                >>
                >>>
                >>> Até mais!
                >>>
                >>> Leonardo
                >>>
                >>>
                >>> 2013/10/2 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
                >>>>   2013/10/2 Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...>:
                >>>>>>   I think that songs in Guarani are not only "folk
                > music"
                >>> in Paraguay,
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>   but "popular music", because they are in the
                > music
                >>> industry of that
                >>>>>>   country, with professional production, video clips, etc.
                >>> There's even
                >>>>>>   a music genre called "guarania".
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>   E.g.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_So2t21pms0
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   Sounds a bit Philippines!
                >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa8cNQwonh4&list=PLBFA09A0AE36611AD
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   The instrumental and general músical influence in both is
                > clearly
                >>> Iberian;
                >>>>
                >>>>   They resemble Portuguese style "Fado" in a bit of
                > melancholy,
                >>> although
                >>>>   fados are clearly more melancholic.
                >>>>
                >>>>>   the melodic particulars are clearly native.
                >>>>
                >>>>   It's interesting that guaranias are also very successful in
                > the
                >>>>   panorama of Brazilian "country music" ("música
                >>> sertaneja"), but they
                >>>>   are sung in Portuguese: some are versions of songs in Guarani or
                >>>>   Spanish, but others are composed already in Portuguese.
                >>>>
                >>>>   A proof that Paraguayan music has some songs worth knowing is that
                > it
                >>>>   has alrady called the attention even of Japanese people on the
                > other
                >>>>   side of the globe:
                >>>>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIkKB1w_9hc
                >>>>
                >>>>   BTW, Japanese people playing Tango is also interesting:
                >>>>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JH8Thx7ieE
                >>>>
                >>>>   They say that, no matter what you do, a Japanese is probably doing
                >>>>   better than you... :-)
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>   Are there other similar examples? Or is it part of the
                > unique
                >>> history
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   Of course. Almost every folk music in the world has been, to
                > some
                >>> extent or
                >>>>>   other, industrialised. Consider the above examples from the
                >>> Philippines.
                >>>>>   Consider Celtic rock: an admixture of bagpipes, electric
                > basses and
                >>> girls
                >>>>>   wearing kilts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MueQEeLOy8o
                >>>>
                >>>>   For the first time, I find that skirts made girls less feminine!
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   At least here, there's no girls wearing kilts:
                >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvAgQjAF5yM
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   How about some Mongolian rock:
                >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdkqVK0AzEk&list=PL8D7F196488FD0242
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>   of Guarani among all native languages of the Americas?
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   Natives up north have fusional music too:
                >>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RxtaDzJOhY&list=PL376D032F8FA0AB8D
                >>>>>   and here we fuse North American, South American (note the toyo
                > at 0:45)
                >>> and rock: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-BLWUhSKL8
                >>>>
                >>>>   Interesting indeed!
                >>>>
                >>>>   You probably know or recognize the melodies of the songs "El
                > condor
                >>>>   pasa" and "Llorando se fue", both with great
                > influence of
                >>> indigenous
                >>>>   music of South American peoples.
                >>>>
                >>>>   However, I was looking for songs sung in Native American
                > *languages*.
                >>>>   In this song performed by the Carlos Santana band, they start with
                >>>>   some text that is presumably in some Mexican language, but I have
                > no
                >>>>   idea of which one:
                >>>>   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNxznQ2ubZQ
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>   (Isn't really there a gentilic for "the
                > Americas" in
                >>> English? Can I use "American"?)
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   Which Americans? We use that word so indiscriminately. You can
                >>> certainly use "American" for
                >>>>>   whatever purpose you like. I do think "most people"
                > will
                >>> understand you first as meaning
                >>>>>   "people from the US", and only secondarily as anyone
                > else
                >>> from continental America (except
                >>>>>   for the Miquelonnaises, who are, of course, Europeans, on
                > account of
                >>> being French). "North
                >>>>>   American" and "South American" tend to
                > alleviate that
                >>> confusion, though.
                >>>>
                >>>>   Not if I want to refer to native people of the whole American
                >>>>   continent indistinguishably. "Native Pan-American"
                > doesn't
                >>> sound
                >>>>   totally adequate.
                >>>>
                >>>>>
                >>>>>   Padraic
                >>>>>
                >>>>>>   Até mais!
                >>>>>>
                >>>>>>   Leonardo
                >>>>>>
                >>>
                >
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