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Spoken Indo-European

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  • Andrew Jarrette
    http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1
    Message 1 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
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    • Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro
      Jarrette, this video is not available in my location, and I think it will not be available in the location of other members of this mailing list. Is this the
      Message 2 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
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        Jarrette,

        this video is not available in my location, and I think it will not be
        available in the location of other members of this mailing list.

        Is this the same spoken indo-european fables shown here:
        http://archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-schleichers-fable
        ?




        On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...>wrote:

        >
        > http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1
        >
      • Padraic Brown
        ... So... ...the fable was first written in 1868 and ónly júst nòw this guy comes along and reads it aloud for the very first time in the history of the
        Message 3 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
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          > http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1


          So...

          ...the fable was first written in 1868 and ónly júst nòw this guy comes along and reads it aloud
          for the very first time in the history of the universe?

          Sadly, this kind of inane sensationalism is all too typical of Yahoo Snews. I mean really? "Here
          it is for the first time ever"?? Schleicher's Fable has been on Youtube for a couple years at
          least, read by several different folks and one even has a nice animation. I'm sure the author himself
          read it aloud a time or three during his career, and quite probably all the authors of subsequent
          modifications read their versions as well.

          Padraic
        • Padraic Brown
          ... Sounds about like the same voice. Some guy from Uni. of Kentucky. You can find others on Youtube if you d like to compare. Padraic
          Message 4 of 8 , Sep 30, 2013
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            > this video is not available in my location, and I think it will not be

            > available in the location of other members of this mailing list.
            >
            > Is this the same spoken indo-european fables shown here:
            > http://archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-schleichers-fable
            > ?

            Sounds about like the same voice. Some guy from Uni. of Kentucky. You can find
            others on Youtube if you'd like to compare.

            Padraic


            >
            >
            > On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Andrew Jarrette
            > <anjarrette@...>wrote:
            >
            >>
            >>
            > http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1
            >>
            >
          • Alex Fink
            ... There was some discussion of this on Language Log: http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=7179 among other things regarding the fact that Byrd s *h1 seems
            Message 5 of 8 , Oct 1, 2013
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              On Mon, 30 Sep 2013 20:59:55 -0400, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...> wrote:

              >http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1

              There was some discussion of this on Language Log:
              http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=7179
              among other things regarding the fact that Byrd's *h1 seems quite close to his *h2. I was pleased to see Martin Kümmel cited as endorsing values h1 = /h/, h2 = /X/, h3 = /R/, which is more or less my position (though I'm not sure what I think of the question of whether h3 was rounded yet).

              Of more general interest, the book this is taken from, Kümmel's _Konsonantenwandel: Bausteine zu einer Typologie des Lautwandels und ihre Konsequenzen für die vergleichende Rekonstruktion_ appears to be a specimen of a type that many conlangers have wished for*, namely, a catalogue of sound changes and study of their probability. Kümmel's scope is Indo-European, Uralic, and Semitic. Now only to get my hands on a copy...

              * and some have embarked on producing, e.g.
              http://jc.tech-galaxy.com/bricka/sound_changes.html
              http://www.frathwiki.com/Velar_consonant#Sound_changes_involving_velars

              Alex
            • taliesin the storyteller
              ... http://www.amazon.com/Konsonantenwandel-Lautwandels-Konsequenzen-vergleichende-Rekonstruktion/dp/3895005908 At just $99 it s not the most expensive
              Message 6 of 8 , Oct 1, 2013
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                On 2013-10-01 12:42, Alex Fink wrote:
                > Konsonantenwandel: Bausteine zu einer Typologie des Lautwandels und
                > ihre Konsequenzen für die vergleichende Rekonstruktion

                http://www.amazon.com/Konsonantenwandel-Lautwandels-Konsequenzen-vergleichende-Rekonstruktion/dp/3895005908

                At "just" $99 it's not the most expensive linguistics-book I've come
                across... but then again, I try to collect reference grammars.


                t.
              • R A Brown
                ... Nope - not available in this location either. ... Right - let s assume it is. ... Not at the moment, thanks :) It might be of academic interest, but
                Message 7 of 8 , Oct 1, 2013
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                  On 01/10/2013 02:18, Padraic Brown wrote:
                  >> this video is not available in my location, and I think
                  >> it will not be available in the location of other
                  >> members of this mailing list.

                  Nope - not available in this location either.

                  >> Is this the same spoken indo-european fables shown
                  >> here:
                  >> http://archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-schleichers-fable
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>?
                  >
                  > Sounds about like the same voice. Some guy from Uni. of
                  > Kentucky.

                  Right - let's assume it is.

                  > You can find others on Youtube if you'd like to compare.

                  Not at the moment, thanks :)

                  It might be of academic interest, but there's no reason IMO
                  to suppose that any will have a more authentic pronunciation
                  than another.
                  ===============================================================

                  On 01/10/2013 02:16, Padraic Brown wrote:
                  [snip]
                  > ...the fable was first written in 1868 and ónly júst nòw
                  > this guy comes along and reads it aloud for the very
                  > first time in the history of the universe?
                  >
                  > Sadly, this kind of inane sensationalism is all too
                  > typical of Yahoo Snews. I mean really?

                  Yep, a bit of a stupid claim, to put it mildly. And as for
                  the ridiculous claim "Language Spoken for First Time in
                  4,000-Plus Years" .......
                  words fail me.

                  I'm fairly that if some PIE-speaking of 4000 or so yeas ago
                  heard that video clip s/he wouldn't recognize the language ;)

                  We can get probably a fairly reasonable reconstruction of
                  Classical Latin; be even with all the evidence we have there
                  are some areas of doubt. There is no doubt in my mind that
                  if we were able to travel back in time, it would take us a
                  bit of of time to communicate readily with say Caesar,
                  Cicero or Vergil. Going back earlier to Classical Greece,
                  and the problem becomes much greater; I've no doubt a time
                  traveler, who knew Classical Greek, arriving in Athens in
                  the 5th century BC would not be readily understood nor would
                  s/he readily understand the language they heard.

                  To go back to the PIE of 4000 or so years presents even
                  greater problems. IMO it is highly unlikely that a modern
                  reconstruction will faithfully represent something last
                  heard 4000-plus years ago!

                  > "Here it is for the first time ever"?? Schleicher's
                  > Fable has been on Youtube for a couple years at least,
                  > read by several different folks and one even has a nice
                  > animation. I'm sure the author himself read it aloud a
                  > time or three during his career,

                  I'm darn sure he did, way back in 1868!

                  I remember coming across this some 60 years ago. I did read
                  it, tho even then I was aware that ideas about PIE had moved
                  on a bit.

                  > and quite probably all the authors of subsequent
                  > modifications read their versions as well.

                  Well, of course they did.

                  As Eric Powell writes: "Since there is considerable
                  disagreement among scholars about PIE, no one version can be
                  considered definitive." Of course they can't. The only way
                  to get a definitive version and really hear what PIE sounded
                  like is to discover the secret of time-travel ;)

                  "For the umpteenth time ever, hear a modern reconstruction
                  of what a language spoken 4000-plus years ago may have
                  possibly sounded like."

                  --
                  Ray
                  ==================================
                  http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                  ==================================
                  "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
                  for individual beings and events."
                  [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
                • Andrew Jarrette
                  Yes, it s the same as the one you mention. Andrew ________________________________ From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro To:
                  Message 8 of 8 , Oct 1, 2013
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                    Yes, it's the same as the one you mention.

                    Andrew




                    ________________________________
                    From: Hugo Cesar de Castro Carneiro <hcesarcastro@...>
                    To: CONLANG@...
                    Sent: Monday, September 30, 2013 9:05:02 PM
                    Subject: Re: Spoken Indo-European


                    Jarrette,

                    this video is not available in my location, and I think it will not be
                    available in the location of other members of this mailing list.

                    Is this the same spoken indo-european fables shown here:
                    http://archaeology.org/exclusives/articles/1302-proto-indo-european-schleichers-fable
                    ?





                    On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 9:59 PM, Andrew Jarrette <anjarrette@...>wrote:

                    >
                    > http://ca.news.yahoo.com/video/trending-language-spoken-first-time-070000096.html?vp=1
                    >
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