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TheSilent Race

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  • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
    I once had a dream where I was at a place with doors lining a wall. Each door had a country behind it. Two of the countries were talkative vountry and silent
    Message 1 of 4 , Aug 6, 2013
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      I once had a dream where I was at a place with doors lining a wall. Each
      door had a country behind it.

      Two of the countries were talkative vountry and silent country. I just saw
      an episode of Evil Twins describing the twins know as the Silent Twins due
      to their selective mutism.

      My question is could that apply to a race? If so, how would that work?

      In other words, could it be a natural phenomenon?



      Mellissa Green





      @GreenNovelist
    • Padraic Brown
      ... In the sawyery of the World, this is called the rabbithole effect : a place of peculiar dwimmery, often a cave or some other subterranean passage, or even
      Message 2 of 4 , Aug 7, 2013
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        > From: Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews <goldyemoran@...>

        >
        > I once had a dream where I was at a place with doors lining a wall. Each
        > door had a country behind it.

        In the sawyery of the World, this is called the "rabbithole effect": a place of peculiar dwimmery, often a cave or some other subterranean passage, or
        even a dusty and little travelled door-lined hall in some very old house, serves as the conduit not only into the realms of Underworld, but also into
        magical realms outside of normally conceived reality. And therefore, one supposes they must also be understood to be egresses from those same
        alternate realities and ìnto the Middle World. If one were to go through such a hole, one might wind up in a rather different place quite far from where
        one expected to go.

        > Two of the countries were talkative vountry and silent country. I just saw
        > an episode of Evil Twins describing the twins know as the Silent Twins due
        > to their selective mutism.

        http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/314349.The_Silent_Twins

        > My question is could that apply to a race? If so, how would that work?

        Why not? Given that the girls described were "antisocial" and entirely absorbed in their own private existence, I would suspect that any such race
        would die out and go extinct before it has a chance to thrive. If we posit a race of people who regularly give birth to twins (or higher sets of multiples)
        and a large enough number of boy-girl twin sets are born, then it might be possible that such twins could sustain such a population. Am not sure what
        sort of culture these people would have -- with no one interacting with anyone else, there would be no material culture to speak of, no education, no
        communal language or story telling, really nothing that we would understand as culture. This race would be little more than pairs of half-wild animals.

        It might make more sense to make this phenomenon more of a commonplace among an otherwise ordinary race. For example, among the Daine, this
        kind of intense inter-twin behavior is not at all unheard of. The magnitude of the behavior described in the book is perhaps beyond the behavior of Daine
        twins -- they will generally communicate with people and interact with the outside world, but they almost always share their own inner world as well. They
        often times share a secret language, rarely can they stand to be parted from each other, almost never marry or engage in a serious relationship (or when
        they do, it's with each other).

        > In other words, could it be a natural phenomenon?

        It apparently already is; but I haven't been able to convince myself that it could be a wide-spread or pervasive one.

        Padraic
      • Tony Harris
        ... Just to add another possible path to this, it would also work if the race (species) in question were either asexual or hermaphrodite, such that individuals
        Message 3 of 4 , Aug 7, 2013
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          On 2013-08-07 09:01, Padraic Brown wrote:
          >
          >> My question is could that apply to a race? If so, how would that work?
          > Why not? Given that the girls described were "antisocial" and entirely absorbed in their own private existence, I would suspect that any such race
          > would die out and go extinct before it has a chance to thrive. If we posit a race of people who regularly give birth to twins (or higher sets of multiples)
          > and a large enough number of boy-girl twin sets are born, then it might be possible that such twins could sustain such a population. Am not sure what
          > sort of culture these people would have -- with no one interacting with anyone else, there would be no material culture to speak of, no education, no
          > communal language or story telling, really nothing that we would understand as culture. This race would be little more than pairs of half-wild animals.
          >
          > It might make more sense to make this phenomenon more of a commonplace among an otherwise ordinary race. For example, among the Daine, this
          > kind of intense inter-twin behavior is not at all unheard of. The magnitude of the behavior described in the book is perhaps beyond the behavior of Daine
          > twins -- they will generally communicate with people and interact with the outside world, but they almost always share their own inner world as well. They
          > often times share a secret language, rarely can they stand to be parted from each other, almost never marry or engage in a serious relationship (or when
          > they do, it's with each other).
          >
          Just to add another possible path to this, it would also work if the
          race (species) in question were either asexual or hermaphrodite, such
          that individuals had very little interaction with one another beyond
          simple territorial dispute resolution. Isaac Asimov touches this in, I
          believe, "Foundation and Earth" (or at least one of the Foundation
          novels that came well after the original trilogy), where he has one
          character who is from a world of hermaphrodites where everyone lives in
          virtual isolation, served by robots. That race, which is human, did
          not, of course, evolve that way, but rather evolved into that state.

          Whether a race could start off that way, asexual/hermaphrodite and
          introverted/isolationist to the point of not really interacting with
          each other, and still develop anything resembling a society or
          civilization, i.e. not be just living in the wild, in an animal-like
          state, and operating on pure instinct without conscious thought as we
          know/envision it, would in my mind still be a question. But one well
          worth exploring in a conworld or novel.

          As an aside on this, I replied first and realized (after hitting send)
          that the Reply-To was set to be directly to Patrick, not to the whole
          list. That seems odd to me, as the norm has been that you just hit
          Reply and it goes to the list, not the sender. But that seems only to
          apply to Patrick's message, as others still work as expected. Interesting.
        • Padraic Brown
          ... Yes. And I can see something like this happening -- at least for some segment of the population. Consider the last two decades or so with the evolution of
          Message 4 of 4 , Aug 7, 2013
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            > From: Tony Harris <tony@...>

            >> It might make more sense to make this phenomenon more of a commonplace
            > among an otherwise ordinary race. For example, among the Daine, this
            >> kind of intense inter-twin behavior is not at all unheard of. The magnitude
            > of the behavior described in the book is perhaps beyond the behavior of Daine
            >> twins -- they will generally communicate with people and interact with the
            > outside world, but they almost always share their own inner world as well. They
            >> often times share a secret language, rarely can they stand to be parted
            > from each other, almost never marry or engage in a serious relationship (or when
            >> they do, it's with each other).
            >>
            > Just to add another possible path to this, it would also work if the
            > race (species) in question were either asexual or hermaphrodite, such
            > that individuals had very little interaction with one another beyond
            > simple territorial dispute resolution.  Isaac Asimov touches this in, I
            > believe, "Foundation and Earth" (or at least one of the Foundation
            > novels that came well after the original trilogy), where he has one
            > character who is from a world of hermaphrodites where everyone lives in
            > virtual isolation, served by robots.  That race, which is human, did
            > not, of course, evolve that way, but rather evolved into that state.

            Yes. And I can see something like this happening -- at least for some segment of
            the population. Consider the last two decades or so with the evolution of H. sapiens
            ludens -- the common basement variety of gamer. Regardless of his subspecies
            (e.g. H. sap. lud. mudens, H. sap. lud. d-n-dens, etc), here is a kind of human that
            lives in real isolation, only interacting within a virtual world, and is served by (proto-)
            robots (servers, microwave ovens, etc). Now they've got all sorts of other modalities
            of connectivity only very rarely have to even see another human being. Such a creature
            teleworks, orders groceries online, pays all bills online, connects with "friends" via
            social media.

            Such a social mesotopia -- neither ideal nor entirely dysfunctional -- would be interesting
            fodder for a story. The directions such people could take, the choices they might have to
            make who have quite forgotten how to work together in the non-virtual world.

            > Whether a race could start off that way, asexual/hermaphrodite and
            > introverted/isolationist to the point of not really interacting with
            > each other, and still develop anything resembling a society or
            > civilization, i.e. not be just living in the wild, in an animal-like
            > state, and operating on pure instinct without conscious thought as we
            > know/envision it, would in my mind still be a question.  But one well
            > worth exploring in a conworld or novel.

            Agreed. I don't think such a race could start out this way and become anything other
            than some kind of animal.

            What might be interesting to explore in a story is some scion of a normal race -- perhaps
            some kind of post-pocyclyptic genetic mutation -- that gets left behind when the remnants
            of normal humanity have exeunted planet left. There would already be plenty of cultural
            remnants left lying around -- abandoned ruins and so forth -- plus language and social
            behaviour would have already evolved. The story would thus be set amid a sort of unevolution
            of these essentially human characteristics as the race is becoming something else. Some of
            these strange behaviors become ever more common. Perhaps the ever unevolving Degenerates
            can be set against the almost relatively normal Left-overs.

            You know, struggle to survive in a Worlde Gonne Madde! (With a 1000 oliphants!)

            What a spectacle that would be!

            > As an aside on this, I replied first and realized (after hitting send)
            > that the Reply-To was set to be directly to Patrick, not to the whole
            > list.  That seems odd to me, as the norm has been that you just hit
            > Reply and it goes to the list, not the sender.  But that seems only to
            > apply to Patrick's message, as others still work as expected.  Interesting

            This is apparently a quirk of Yahoo mail that I have no control over and can not change. Joerg
            has already complained about this (and rightly so). The time may well be come to find a better
            email service.

            Padraic
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