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"I wonder..." in verb-final languages

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  • MorphemeAddict
    How do Japanese, Koreans, Turks, and others who speak verb-final languages express the simple (at least to me) thought of I wonder... ? stevo
    Message 1 of 4 , Jul 25, 2013
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      How do Japanese, Koreans, Turks, and others who speak verb-final languages
      express the simple (at least to me) thought of "I wonder..."?

      stevo
    • Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
      ... I don t know about other languages, but Japanese usually uses the sentence-final particle かな: kana (which has an alternative かしら used only by
      Message 2 of 4 , Jul 26, 2013
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        On 26 July 2013 08:55, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:

        > How do Japanese, Koreans, Turks, and others who speak verb-final languages
        > express the simple (at least to me) thought of "I wonder..."?
        >
        > stevo
        >

        I don't know about other languages, but Japanese usually uses the
        sentence-final particle かな: kana (which has an alternative かしら used only by
        women). It basically marks uncertainty from the speaker concerning the
        statement given by the sentence:
        待っててくれるかな: Mattete kureru kana: I wonder if they'll wait for me (the
        sentence "mattete kureru" simply means "they're waiting for me" or "they'll
        wait for me").

        kana/kashira is quite informal however. In more formal settings, the
        standard way to indicate uncertainty is to form a polite question (with か:
        ka following a polite verb form) and add to it the sentence-final particle
        ね: ne, which on its own simply asks for approval: "isn't it? right?". Here
        are a few examples to illustrate, based on the sentence いいです: ii desu: it
        is good, it is OK:
        いいですか: ii desu ka: "Is it OK?" (simple question, may be answered by yes or
        no)
        いいですね: ii desu ne: "It's OK, isn't it?" (asking for approval from the
        listener)
        いいですかね: ii desu ka ne: "I wonder if it's OK" (more uncertainty from the
        speaker compared to the previous one)

        Now, some people will say that adding more than one sentence-final particle
        to a sentence is not allowed in Japanese. Don't listen to them. This
        construction is perfectly standard and understood everywhere in Japan.

        Finally, if you just want to say "I wonder..." (i.e. without a subclause
        after it), in Japanese one uses expressions like どうかな: dou kana (informal,
        male and female), どうかしら: dou kashira (informal, female only) どうですかね: dou
        desu ka ne (polite).
        --
        Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

        http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
        http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
      • Roger Mills
        Not particularly OT, but in Kash (not verb final) to wonder is expressed as to ask oneself , e.g. me manuwak pun.... I [ask myself] wonder if.... ,  netu
        Message 3 of 4 , Jul 26, 2013
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          Not particularly OT, but in Kash (not verb final) "to wonder" is expressed as 'to ask oneself', e.g. me manuwak pun.... 'I [ask myself] wonder if....',  netu yanuwak pun... 'he/she wonders if... '

          Years ago, when I breifly hung around with a French couple in Indonesia, I think I heard them say 'je me demande....' for 'I wonder'.  Is that correct, Christophe??  I've no  idea how to say it in Indonesian.

          Your Japanese exs. are interesting-- what does "dou" mean, precisely, in the last exs.?



          ________________________________
          From: Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets <tsela.cg@...>
          To: CONLANG@...
          Sent: Friday, July 26, 2013 4:00 AM
          Subject: Re: "I wonder..." in verb-final languages


          On 26 July 2013 08:55, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:

          >  How do Japanese, Koreans, Turks, and others who speak verb-final languages
          > express the simple (at least to me) thought of "I wonder..."?
          >
          > stevo
          >

          I don't know about other languages, but Japanese usually uses the
          sentence-final particle かな: kana (which has an alternative かしら used only by
          women). It basically marks uncertainty from the speaker concerning the
          statement given by the sentence:
          待っててくれるかな: Mattete kureru kana: I wonder if they'll wait for me (the
          sentence "mattete kureru" simply means "they're waiting for me" or "they'll
          wait for me").

          kana/kashira is quite informal however. In more formal settings, the
          standard way to indicate uncertainty is to form a polite question (with か:
          ka following a polite verb form) and add to it the sentence-final particle
          ね: ne, which on its own simply asks for approval: "isn't it? right?". Here
          are a few examples to illustrate, based on the sentence いいです: ii desu: it
          is good, it is OK:
          いいですか: ii desu ka: "Is it OK?" (simple question, may be answered by yes or
          no)
          いいですね: ii desu ne: "It's OK, isn't it?" (asking for approval from the
          listener)
          いいですかね: ii desu ka ne: "I wonder if it's OK" (more uncertainty from the
          speaker compared to the previous one)

          Now, some people will say that adding more than one sentence-final particle
          to a sentence is not allowed in Japanese. Don't listen to them. This
          construction is perfectly standard and understood everywhere in Japan.

          Finally, if you just want to say "I wonder..." (i.e. without a subclause
          after it), in Japanese one uses expressions like どうかな: dou kana (informal,
          male and female), どうかしら: dou kashira (informal, female only) どうですかね: dou
          desu ka ne (polite).
          --
          Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets.

          http://christophoronomicon.blogspot.com/
          http://www.christophoronomicon.nl/
        • Garth Wallace
          On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets ... I ve never heard anyone say you can t use multiple sentence-final particles. Some
          Message 4 of 4 , Jul 26, 2013
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            On Fri, Jul 26, 2013 at 1:00 AM, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets
            <tsela.cg@...> wrote:
            >
            > Now, some people will say that adding more than one sentence-final particle
            > to a sentence is not allowed in Japanese. Don't listen to them. This
            > construction is perfectly standard and understood everywhere in Japan.

            I've never heard anyone say you can't use multiple sentence-final
            particles. Some combinations are pretty confusing, though, like yo +
            ne, which I've heard and which makes no sense to me ("yo" usually
            marks an emphatic assertion of new information, while "ne" asks for
            confirmation).

            I'm still not clear on the difference between "yo", "zo", and "ze",
            for that matter....
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