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Re: Forums for prehistoric linguistics of Europe?

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  • Padraic Brown
    ... Cyril himself is also into Nostratic. He is involved with www.nostratic.net Speaking of, there is also http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nostratic-L/
    Message 1 of 10 , Jul 4, 2013
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      > From: Roger Mills <romiltz@...>

      > I should have added:  Cybalist lately isn't quite so speculative, though it can be at times. But look in their vast archive.

      > There used to be a rather controversial guy posting there named Glen Gordon; he was into Nostratic (which is another
      > avenue to explore), and now inhabits IIRC a Nostratic website.

      Cyril himself is also into Nostratic. He is involved with www.nostratic.net


      Speaking of, there is also http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Nostratic-L/

      Padraic
    • R A Brown
      On 05/07/2013 00:49, Padraic Brown wrote: [snip] ... Polat Kaya, eh? Definitely crackpotty then. He s the guy who claims the script on the Lemnos stele is a
      Message 2 of 10 , Jul 4, 2013
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        On 05/07/2013 00:49, Padraic Brown wrote:
        [snip]
        >
        > Interesting, but quite possibly crackpotty:
        >
        > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Polat_Kaya/

        Polat Kaya, eh? Definitely crackpotty then.

        He's the guy who claims the script on the Lemnos stele is
        a western Greek alphabet of the 6th century BC, but a script
        derived from 'runic' script of the Turkic Orhun and Yeniset
        inscriptions and other similar central Asian inscriptions.
        The language, of course, is not an Etruscan related one, as
        most think, but Turkic!
        http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/LemnianTrans.html#Kaya

        > Bet you didn't know that the ancient city of Troy is
        > actually the "Home of the Turks"! ;)))

        ... of course, and the Pelasgians were Turks. :-D

        --
        Ray
        ==================================
        http://www.carolandray.plus.com
        ==================================
        "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
        for individual beings and events."
        [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
      • R A Brown
        On 05/07/2013 07:55, R A Brown wrote: [snip] ... OOPS!! a negative got omitted there :( I should have written: He s the guy who claims the script on the
        Message 3 of 10 , Jul 5, 2013
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          On 05/07/2013 07:55, R A Brown wrote:
          [snip]
          >
          > He's the guy who claims the script on the Lemnos stele
          > is a western Greek alphabet of the 6th century BC,

          OOPS!! a negative got omitted there :(

          I should have written: "He's the guy who claims the script
          on the Lemnos stele is _not_ a western Greek alphabet of the
          6th century BC,

          > but a script derived from 'runic' script of the Turkic
          > Orhun and Yeniset inscriptions and other similar central
          > Asian inscriptions

          I suppose I ought to have added that "and only
          coincidentally gives the appearance of a Greek script!"

          --
          Ray
          ==================================
          http://www.carolandray.plus.com
          ==================================
          "language … began with half-musical unanalysed expressions
          for individual beings and events."
          [Otto Jespersen, Progress in Language, 1895]
        • Jörg Rhiemeier
          Hallo conlangers! ... And most of the others Padraic suggested are also unhelpful, for various reasons. Substratumlanguages would in theory be exactly the
          Message 4 of 10 , Jul 5, 2013
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            Hallo conlangers!

            On Friday 05 July 2013 08:55:27 R A Brown wrote:

            > On 05/07/2013 00:49, Padraic Brown wrote:
            > [snip]
            >
            > > Interesting, but quite possibly crackpotty:
            > >
            > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Polat_Kaya/
            >
            > Polat Kaya, eh? Definitely crackpotty then.

            And most of the others Padraic suggested are also unhelpful,
            for various reasons. Substratumlanguages would in theory be
            exactly the right thing (and I *am* there), but in practice,
            nobody posts there (and probably, nobody reads it). Cybalist
            is dedicated to IE studies, but it is de facto a Paleolithic
            Continuity mailing list, which is the reason why I have left it.
            The others are either not at all about European linguistic
            prehistory, or crackpotty, or both.

            I have been watching the Aegeanet archive lately, but apart
            from the list being limited to one particular region (and not
            even the ones where my interest is strongest, viz. Central
            Europe and the British Isles), it mostly carries announcements
            of conferences and similar stuff.

            > He's the guy who claims the script on the Lemnos stele is
            > a western Greek alphabet of the 6th century BC, but a script
            > derived from 'runic' script of the Turkic Orhun and Yeniset
            > inscriptions and other similar central Asian inscriptions.
            > The language, of course, is not an Etruscan related one, as
            > most think, but Turkic!
            > http://www.carolandray.plus.com/Eteocretan/LemnianTrans.html#Kaya

            Funny.

            > > Bet you didn't know that the ancient city of Troy is
            > > actually the "Home of the Turks"! ;)))
            >
            > ... of course, and the Pelasgians were Turks. :-D

            Turkish nationalism gone loopy.

            --
            ... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
            http://www.joerg-rhiemeier.de/Conlang/index.html
            "Bêsel asa Éam, a Éam atha cvanthal a cvanth atha Éamal." - SiM 1:1
          • Padraic Brown
            ... Terribly sorry to hear that! The ones I picked were the *least* loopy ones I could find! All the rest were either neo-paganette reconstructionists,
            Message 5 of 10 , Jul 5, 2013
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              > From: Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>

              >
              > And most of the others Padraic suggested are also unhelpful,
              > for various reasons. 

              Terribly sorry to hear that! The ones I picked were the *least* loopy ones
              I could find! All the rest were either neo-paganette reconstructionists,
              satanists, neo-nazis or various west Asian cultural groups (Pashto, Iranian,
              Afghan, etc).

              Hopefully someone can point you in a better direction!

              >> > Bet you didn't know that the ancient city of Troy is
              >> > actually the "Home of the Turks"! ;)))
              >>
              >> ... of course, and the Pelasgians were Turks. :-D
              >
              > Turkish nationalism gone loopy.

              Oh, the hilarity!

              Padraic
            • Padraic Brown
              Voiceless dentals go yer ways,     see yez in some oblique case! Ablaut and Umlaut came to play,      a ə, e ae, u o naught! Mentolatian likes
              Message 6 of 10 , Jul 17, 2013
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                Voiceless dentals go yer ways,
                    see yez in some oblique case!

                Ablaut and Umlaut came to play,
                     a > ə, e > ae, u > o > naught!
                Mentolatian likes to take the nom. pl. of a noun and use that as a root
                for a semantically extended series of nouns. For example, we have the
                word dazg (house, roof, covering) whose plural is jí (from old dəzgí).
                This plural becomes a new root, j- and can form a new word with a
                common nominal stem, -un. Hence, jun, cloth. The plural of cloth, jní,
                plus a different nominal stem, -aru, gives us sinaru, clothing. The plural
                of clothing, snáer, yields a common word for a suit or wardrobe of
                clothing, sneres. Finally, the plural of suits, zrəzí, plus a curious little
                combining root, -sd (place where), gives us erzed, an armoir or dresser.

                So, where the heck did dazg- go off to???

                Padraic
              • Virginia Keys
                ... Voiceless dentals go yer ways,     see yez in some oblique case! Ablaut and Umlaut came to play,      a ə, e ae, u o naught! Mentolatian
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 20, 2013
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                  On Wed, 17 Jul 2013 20:11:10 -0700, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:

                  >

                  Voiceless dentals go yer ways,
                      see yez in some oblique case!

                  Ablaut and Umlaut came to play,
                       a > ə, e > ae, u > o > naught!
                  Mentolatian likes to take the nom. pl. of a noun and use that as a root
                  for a semantically extended series of nouns. For example, we have the
                  word dazg (house, roof, covering) whose plural is jí (from old dəzgí).
                  This plural becomes a new root, j- and can form a new word with a
                  common nominal stem, -un. Hence, jun, cloth. The plural of cloth, jní,
                  plus a different nominal stem, -aru, gives us sinaru, clothing. The plural
                  of clothing, snáer, yields a common word for a suit or wardrobe of
                  clothing, sneres. Finally, the plural of suits, zrəzí, plus a curious little
                  combining root, -sd (place where), gives us erzed, an armoir or dresser.

                  So, where the heck did dazg- go off to???

                  Padraic


                  Haha, nice! I find your post particularly interesting, as I had been trying to think of ways to grow families of words from roots. Food for thought!

                  --Virginia
                • Padraic Brown
                  ... For some odd reason, it just made sense for the language to go this route. Some transformations are pretty obvious: enem (pl. nmí), spirit yields manzed,
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 21, 2013
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                    > From: Virginia Keys <virginiakeys@...>

                    >
                    > Mentolatian likes to take the nom. pl. of a noun and use that as a root
                    > for a semantically extended series of nouns. For example, we have the
                    > word dazg (house, roof, covering) whose plural is jí (from old dəzgí).
                    > This plural becomes a new root, j- and can form a new word with a
                    > common nominal stem, -un. Hence, jun, cloth. The plural of cloth, jní,
                    > plus a different nominal stem, -aru, gives us sinaru, clothing. The plural
                    > of clothing, snáer, yields a common word for a suit or wardrobe of
                    > clothing, sneres. Finally, the plural of suits, zrəzí, plus a curious little
                    > combining root, -sd (place where), gives us erzed, an armoir or dresser.
                    >
                    > Haha, nice! I find your post particularly interesting, as I had been trying to
                    > think of ways to grow families of words from roots. Food for thought!

                    For some odd reason, it just made sense for the language to go this route.
                    Some transformations are pretty obvious: enem (pl. nmí), spirit yields
                    manzed, chapel or temple. Some are not so: cwanu (pl. nwí), noblewoman
                    yields wanzed, inner court or newaru, debt servant. On the other hand,
                    another word for woman, mannu (pl. mní), yields nemaru, midwife. Other
                    transformational morphemes could extend these: nemaruta, health or
                    nemaruwan, to heal; newaruta, servitude.

                    Some of these require an understanding of the culture before they become
                    clear. The inner court of a Mentolatian greathouse is roughly what we might
                    consider a formal garden with the addition of ancillary rooms on either side:
                    library / reading room, a room for refreshment, etc. These are the women's
                    rooms and this is where Things Get Done --- quite literally the "seat of
                    power".

                    On the other hand, and I suppose in a curiously odd twist of fate, if
                    a family finds itself in debt, it has been traditional to sell the eldest daughter
                    into servitude for a prescribed length of time until the debt is considered paid.
                    This actually nearly brought about the destruction of the whole culture. Twas
                    nearly two centuries ago that  Mentolatum found itself in a scuffle with Auntimoany.
                    Scuffle ended, in typicaly Germanic fashion, the victorious Emperor at the time
                    sought to "seal the deal" with a royal marriage and quite naturally demanded
                    the daughter of the arquan in marriage. Consternation ensued -- after all, how
                    could the arquan condescend to sell off his daughter into slavery!? -- but there
                    being no real choice in the matter, the poor girl got sent away. Although she
                    apparently succumbed to some wasting illness within two years, every Mentolatian
                    knew it was really an act of honorable suicide. Anyway, Auntimoany went on its
                    merry way, while Mentolatum fell into a nasty civil war and economic depression.
                    The arquan was deposed and much that was fair in the country fell to ruin. Twas
                    only about fifty years ago that the arquanate was restored, but its reputation was
                    still very much tarnished. Much of the old esteem was refurbished five years ago
                    when the present arquan, on the anniversary of that ill-fated wedding, decreed
                    an end to the practice of newaruta.

                    Padraic

                    > --Virginia
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