Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: THEORY: Long and short vowels association.

Expand Messages
  • And Rosta
    ... It s the classic Trager/Bloch/Smith phonemic analysis, motivated by phonological arguments rather than being merely an impressionistic method of suggesting
    Message 1 of 47 , Jul 3, 2013
    • 0 Attachment
      George Corley, On 03/07/2013 14:29:
      > On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 7:02 AM, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> In some old e-mail conversations with Justin B. Rye, I could get some
      >> details of what he imagined for an English spelling reform.
      >> Apparently, most English words *look* as if they ended in consonant,
      >> because all long vowels would get a final <y>, <w> or <h> :
      >>
      >> be -> biy
      >> shampoo -> shampuw
      >> law -> loh
      >> Ra -> Rah
      >>
      >
      > Keep in mind that "law" varies a lot by dialect, and to me "loh" doesn't in
      > any way suggest the correct pronunciation.

      It's the classic Trager/Bloch/Smith phonemic analysis, motivated by phonological arguments rather than being merely an impressionistic method of suggesting the correct pronunciation. I agree with the general thrust of that analysis, but for those American dialects that have a phonologically unpredictable distribution of COT/LOT and CAUGHT/THOUGHT in environments only inherently-checked vowels can occupy, I'd say that CAUGHT/THOUGHT is an inherently-checked phoneme /6/ [that is a six, not CXS], in which case _law_ could be /l6h/ and Ra /roh/. For my own (phonologically fundamentally Australian) dialect, /loh/ is perfect for _law_ (with the added proviso that in nonrhotic dialects, /h/ and /r/ are essentially the same phoneme).

      --And.
    • Anthony Miles
      ... IIRC, the composer of El Cid was convinced he was writing Latin, although his reasons may have been as much this is literature and not trash, therefore it
      Message 47 of 47 , Aug 22, 2013
      • 0 Attachment
        >I could imagine that the same sort of thing might have occurred early in
        >Romance languages, only to be later obliterated by nationalism.
        >Nonetheless, it's not so much that writing is meant to be in a different
        >language, but that it should be reserved for a "higher" language. I think
        >Christophe's point is that writing in French or other Romance languages at
        >that time might be viewed the same way as writing in Ebonics would be to
        >many Anglophones today -- they consider it a vulgar and degenerate form of
        >the "pure" language, and thus reject the idea of serious writing in it.

        IIRC, the composer of El Cid was convinced he was writing Latin, although his
        reasons may have been as much "this is literature and not trash, therefore it
        must be Latin" as any linguistic criteria - the etymologies of Isidore of Seville
        don't inspire much confidence. The pre-1976 distinction in Greek between
        Katheravousa (sp?) and Demotic seems to be similar, although fuzzier. Even in
        English, when I compose a business letter or write something academic, I use
        a higher register than when I'm talking to one of my Scouts who's a 6th grader.
        Now, I must concede that my colloquial register is not much lower than my
        academic one, but that's because my default vocabulary is relatively high.
        Indeed, as one Ancient Egyptian said, "I know the language of the land; I do
        not speak like a common man; my speech is not full of "pa's"".

        Once I'm done with update of my conlang Siye, you will be able to see that
        the Simayamka and the Guild of Scholars are keenly aware of such
        distinctions - the "Moonies" advocate the (irregular) use of the ergative suffix
        -na on a nominative-accusative pronoun mu- for disambiguation of the nominative
        and accusative, while the majority of the Guild decries this usage as vulgar
        and tolerates the ambiguity, at least in independent pronouns. Even in regular
        nouns, the authorization (i.e. recognition of new cases) can take years.
        And if you use an authorized case in a contract, that is possible
        grounds for invalidation.
      Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.