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Re: writing (almost) entirely in lower-case letters

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  • And Rosta
    As I failed to communicate in a previous opaquely-worded contribution to this thread, the romanization of my Livagian is all upper case or all lower case --
    Message 1 of 55 , Jun 20, 2013
      As I failed to communicate in a previous opaquely-worded contribution to
      this thread, the romanization of my Livagian is all upper case or all lower
      case -- more precisely, the choice between upper and lower case is solely
      typographical rather than orthographic.

      In Lojban, by contrast, case is solely orthographic; upper case is used
      only for stressed syllables. Though, I make that statement on the basis of
      a rather questionable analysis in which the marking of
      non-phonologically-contrastive stress counts as orthographic.

      --And.
      On Jun 20, 2013 4:16 PM, "Leonardo Castro" <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

      > I wonder why nobody chooses to write completely in upper-case letters.
      >
      > Até mais!
      >
      > Leonardo
      >
      >
      > 2013/6/19 G. van der Vegt <gijsstrider@...>:
      > > On 19 June 2013 04:41, Douglas Koller <douglaskoller@...> wrote:
      > >>> Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2013 11:14:53 -0500
      > >>> From: carraxan@...
      > >>
      > >>> Carrajina uses the Latin alphabet natively and capitalizes the first
      > words
      > >>> of sentences and proper names, but not proper adjectives since that
      > seems
      > >>> to be common practice among the Romance languages. I have briefly
      > >>> considered capitalizing DJ and CH together rather than Dj and Ch, but
      > >>> haven't ever actually done it as it looks weird to me.
      > >>
      > >> Yeah, I don't go there either. IJsland? Thank you, no. :)
      > >>
      > >> Kou
      > >>
      > >>
      > >
      > > Well, the IJ digraph is not really written as two letters in
      > > handwritten and early typewritter/movable type Dutch, and probably
      > > would never have become two letters in digital if the standard of the
      > > day wasn't ascii.
      > >
      > > In handwritten Dutch, it looks more like ÿ or its capitalized
      > > equivalent, and there are plenty examples of the digraph in
      > > non-handwritten Dutch where it's clearly represented as a single
      > > letter. (Example:
      > >
      > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6f/Signboard-slijterij.jpg
      > > )
      > >
      > > That said, I can imagine it's weird for people not used to it.
      > > Different expectations and all that.
      >
    • Michael Everson
      ... Let s look at the consonants first, shall we? I count 80 consonants used in the IPA (the current official IPA) and of those only 35 of them do not have
      Message 55 of 55 , Jun 26, 2013
        On 22 Jun 2013, at 19:29, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:

        >> Most IPA letters have capitals, actually.
        >
        > It's easy to determine that that is not true. Of the 96 characters in the IPA Extensions block only 29 have capitals, and even if we allow for the fact that some characters in that block are obsolete (some of which are among those having caps) or nonstandard, and that _a-z æ ø ð β θ_ and perhaps a few more letters with caps are also IPA that's far from a majority!

        Let's look at the consonants first, shall we? I count 80 consonants used in the IPA (the current official IPA) and of those only 35 of them do not have capital letters. That's 45 with caps, against 35 without. A majority. And if you discount characters like the 8 glottals and 5 clicks which are not very Latin-like and are used *as* caseless characters (as opposed to lower-case characters without case), as well as 6 of the small-caps characters for which capital forms can't sensibly designed, you've got only 16 characters which could have caps not having them. Against 45.

        > Moreover there would be the problem that at least b/β ð/ɖ and x/χ would have identical
        > capital shapes. That doesn't make a party IMHO!

        You are mistaken as Latin letter Beta and Latin letter Chi have recently been added to the standard.

        To the consonants:

        In the first line of the chart only two characters don't have capital forms, and one could compose a dotless J wth stroke. Admittedly the glottal situation is a bit tricky, but case forms were innovated for a natural orthography. Obviously it is problematic making a capital for a small capital letter.

        Pp Bb Tt Dd Ʈʈ Ɖɖ Cc *ɟ Kk Ɡɡ Qq *ɢ Ɂɂ

        In the second line of the chart two characters don't have capital forms; one could easily be devised for the first.

        Mm Ɱɱ Nn Nn *ɳ Ɲɲ Ŋŋ *ɴ

        In the fourth line one character has no capital; again, a small-cap.

        *ʙ Rr Ʀʀ

        In the fifth line two are missing caps, but both could have one devised pretty easily.

        *ⱱ *ɾ Ɽɽ

        In the sixth line the phi is missing a cap but could have one designed; the palatal s and z are but arguably one could compose the caps at need; small caps turned r could have a turned Yr as its cap; the pharyngeal is as problematic as the glottal. Latin Beta and Chi are new.

        *ɸ Ꞵꞵ Ff Vv Θθ Ðð Ss Zz Ʃʃ Ʒʒ *ʂ *ʐ Çç Ʝʝ Xx Ɣɣ Ꭓꭓ *ʁ Ħħ *ʕ Hh Ɦɦ

        In the seventh line both are missing caps, but all could have one devised pretty easily.

        *ɬ *ɮ

        In the eighth line three are missing caps, but all could have one devised pretty easily.

        Ʋʋ *ɹ *ɻ Jj *ɰ

        In the ninth line three are missing caps, but two could have one devised pretty easily.

        Ll *ɭ *ʎ *ʟ

        It is true that none of the clicks are casing:

        *ʘ *ǀ *ǃ *ǂ *ǁ

        But most of the voiced implosives are, and the palatal could be devised from Ʃ:

        Ɓɓ Ɗɗ *ʄ Ɠɠ *ʛ

        Leaving us with the other symbols:

        *ʍ Ww Ɥɥ *ʜ *ɕ *ʑ *ɺ *ɧ *ʢ *ʡ

        Now, let's look at the vowels.

        Ii Yy Ɨɨ Ʉʉ Ɯɯ Uu

        [*]ɪ *ʏ Ʊʊ

        Ee Øø *ɘ Ɵɵ *ɤ Oo

        Əə

        Ɛɛ Œœ Ɜɜ *ɞ Ʌʌ Ɔɔ

        Ææ Ɐɐ

        Aa *ɶ Ɑɑ Ɒɒ

        Here casing fares even better, with 28 total vowels only 5 of which aren't cased, and 2 of those are excluded as they are small caps, except for small-capital i for which a proper capital has been devised and has been proposed for encoding.

        I'd say "Most IPA letters have caps, actually" is accurate.

        Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com/
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