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Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

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  • MorphemeAddict
    Dances with Wolves has Lakota in it. stevo
    Message 1 of 21 , May 24, 2013
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      Dances with Wolves has Lakota in it.

      stevo


      On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 11:17 PM, James W <emindahken@...> wrote:

      > There's some Lakota (I think) in Hidalgo. Not a lot, and I don't know how
      > time-accurate it is.
      >
      > James W
      >
      > On May 24, 2013, at 22:01, Zach Wellstood <zwellstood@...> wrote:
      >
      > > I'm not sure of its accuracy, but there was an Amerindian language spoken
      > > in that film. It's called Apocalypto (and I'd quite good, linguistics
      > > aside).
      > >
      > > There's also a movie called The New World (2005) which takes place in
      > > Jamestown I think. The native Americans in the film speak a reconstructed
      > > proto-Algonquian language, which was put together by a linguist.
      > >
      > > Zach
      > > On May 24, 2013 10:53 PM, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:
      > >
      > >> Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish
      > >> conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
      > >>
      > >> --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
      > >>
      > >> From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
      > >> Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
      > >> To: CONLANG@...
      > >> Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
      > >>
      > >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
      > >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
      > >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
      > >>
      > >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
      > >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
      > >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
      > >>
      > >> Até mais!
      > >>
      > >> Leonardo
      > >>
      >
    • Jim Henry
      ... There s Apocalypto , which used Yucatec Maya. -- Jim Henry http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/ http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
      Message 2 of 21 , May 25, 2013
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        On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
        > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm

        There's "Apocalypto", which used Yucatec Maya.

        --
        Jim Henry
        http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
        http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
      • Adam Walker
        Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and the characters speak
        Message 3 of 21 , May 25, 2013
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          Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
          Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
          the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
          happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
          restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
          calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
          that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
          much frustration.

          Adam

          On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
          > Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
          > that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
          > possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
          >
          > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
          > describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
          > Roman Egypt speaking English).
          >
          > Até mais!
          >
          > Leonardo
          >
        • Leonardo Castro
          Thanks to everyone for the suggestions! ... Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice of Mel Gibson.
          Message 4 of 21 , May 26, 2013
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            Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!

            2013/5/24 Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinger42@...>:
            > The Passion had ecclesiastical Latin instead of Vulgar Latin spoken by the
            > Romans, so it's not exactly accurate.

            Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice
            of Mel Gibson.

            >
            >
            > On 24 May 2013 20:41, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
            >
            >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
            >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
            >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
            >>
            >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
            >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
            >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
            >>
            >> Até mais!
            >>
            >> Leonardo
            >>
          • Leonardo Castro
            I ve just finished watching Amistad, that has English, Spanish and Mende. As it s a more recent story, I guess they didn t reconstruct anything. Até mais!
            Message 5 of 21 , May 28, 2013
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              I've just finished watching Amistad, that has English, Spanish and
              Mende. As it's a more recent story, I guess they didn't reconstruct
              anything.

              Até mais!

              Leonardo


              2013/5/26 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
              > Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
              >
              > 2013/5/24 Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinger42@...>:
              >> The Passion had ecclesiastical Latin instead of Vulgar Latin spoken by the
              >> Romans, so it's not exactly accurate.
              >
              > Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice
              > of Mel Gibson.
              >
              >>
              >>
              >> On 24 May 2013 20:41, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
              >>> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
              >>> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
              >>>
              >>> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
              >>> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
              >>> Roman Egypt speaking English).
              >>>
              >>> Até mais!
              >>>
              >>> Leonardo
              >>>
            • Leonardo Castro
              ... I m watching this movie right now. These are all still living languages, aren t they? BTW, I was watching the movie Gray Matters on YouTube* and then
              Message 6 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                2013/5/25 Adam Walker <carraxan@...>:
                > Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
                > Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
                > the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
                > happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
                > restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
                > calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
                > that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
                > much frustration.
                >
                > Adam

                I'm watching this movie right now. These are all still living
                languages, aren't they?

                BTW, I was watching the movie "Gray Matters" on YouTube* and then
                YouTube suggested a lot of female-homosexuality-related movies. What
                surprised me is that the first suggested ones were in language which I
                had never before watched a movie in:

                Yes or No (Thai)
                Eloïse's Lover (Catalan)
                Rome & Juliet (Filipino)
                Fucking Åmål (Swedish)

                There was also "Nina's Heavenly Delights" that is actually in English
                but about Indian immigrants in Scotland.

                I wonder if there's something intrinsically more international in
                movies on this subject or if it's just a matter of being a subject
                that you must search many countries' productions to have a meaningful
                sample.

                *: I don't know if it's a copyright infringement, but I guess it's not
                up to me to know it, it's a problem between those that who posted and
                that have the copyright. Maybe there's some short phrase to say all of
                this I have just said. Maybe "no copyright infringement intended" or
                NCII?!

                Até mais!

                Leonardo

                >
                > On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                >>
                >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                >>
                >> Até mais!
                >>
                >> Leonardo
                >>.
              • Siva Kalyan
                It s been pointed out that The Passion of the Christ may not be entirely accurate, in that the Romans would probably have been speaking Koine Greek (at least
                Message 7 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                  It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ" may not be entirely
                  accurate, in that the Romans would probably have been speaking Koine Greek
                  (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather than Latin.


                  On 19 January 2014 00:28, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

                  > 2013/5/25 Adam Walker <carraxan@...>:
                  > > Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
                  > > Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
                  > > the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
                  > > happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
                  > > restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
                  > > calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
                  > > that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
                  > > much frustration.
                  > >
                  > > Adam
                  >
                  > I'm watching this movie right now. These are all still living
                  > languages, aren't they?
                  >
                  > BTW, I was watching the movie "Gray Matters" on YouTube* and then
                  > YouTube suggested a lot of female-homosexuality-related movies. What
                  > surprised me is that the first suggested ones were in language which I
                  > had never before watched a movie in:
                  >
                  > Yes or No (Thai)
                  > Eloïse's Lover (Catalan)
                  > Rome & Juliet (Filipino)
                  > Fucking Åmål (Swedish)
                  >
                  > There was also "Nina's Heavenly Delights" that is actually in English
                  > but about Indian immigrants in Scotland.
                  >
                  > I wonder if there's something intrinsically more international in
                  > movies on this subject or if it's just a matter of being a subject
                  > that you must search many countries' productions to have a meaningful
                  > sample.
                  >
                  > *: I don't know if it's a copyright infringement, but I guess it's not
                  > up to me to know it, it's a problem between those that who posted and
                  > that have the copyright. Maybe there's some short phrase to say all of
                  > this I have just said. Maybe "no copyright infringement intended" or
                  > NCII?!
                  >
                  > Até mais!
                  >
                  > Leonardo
                  >
                  > >
                  > > On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                  > >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                  > >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                  > >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                  > >>
                  > >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                  > >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                  > >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                  > >>
                  > >> Até mais!
                  > >>
                  > >> Leonardo
                  > >>.
                  >
                • R A Brown
                  ... It s not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate s reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the imagination a bit. ... ... and when they did
                  Message 8 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                    On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                    > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                    > may not be entirely accurate,

                    It's not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                    reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                    imagination a bit.

                    > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                    > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                    > than Latin.

                    ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                    using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                    A slight anachronism there, methinks :)

                    --
                    Ray
                    ==================================
                    http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                    ==================================
                    "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                    magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                    and out of which almost anything may come
                    . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                    Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                    twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                    [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                  • Pete Bleackley
                    Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can t expect sanity, let alone accuracy. -- Pete Bleackley ... From: R A Brown To:
                    Message 9 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                      Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                      --
                      Pete Bleackley

                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: R A Brown <ray@...>
                      To: CONLANG@...
                      Sent: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 7:07
                      Subject: Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

                      On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                      > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                      > may not be entirely accurate,

                      It's not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                      reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                      imagination a bit.

                      > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                      > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                      > than Latin.

                      ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                      using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                      A slight anachronism there, methinks :)

                      --
                      Ray
                      ==================================
                      http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                      ==================================
                      "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                      magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                      and out of which almost anything may come
                      . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                      Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                      twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                      [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                    • R A Brown
                      ... I know. ... I agree with you on both points; and there is more I could say - but that would be trespassing well into NCNC territory. I think it suffices to
                      Message 10 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                        On 19/01/2014 08:41, Pete Bleackley wrote:
                        > Well, [The Passion of the Christ] was produced by a
                        > Sedevacantist,

                        I know.

                        > so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                        I agree with you on both points; and there is more I could
                        say - but that would be trespassing well into NCNC territory.

                        I think it suffices to say on the list that the film is
                        _not_ an example of a linguistically realistic film.

                        The languages of this film have been discussed on this list
                        before. Anyone interested should be able to find the thread
                        in the conlang archives.

                        --
                        Ray
                        ==================================
                        http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                        ==================================
                        "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                        magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                        and out of which almost anything may come
                        . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                        Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                        twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                        [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                      • Roger Mills
                        Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_? On Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:38 AM, Pete Bleackley wrote: Well, it was
                        Message 11 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                          Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?




                          On Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:38 AM, Pete Bleackley <pete.bleackley@...> wrote:

                          Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                          --
                          Pete Bleackley


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: R A Brown <ray@...>
                          To: CONLANG@...
                          Sent: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 7:07
                          Subject: Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

                          On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                          > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                          > may not be entirely accurate,

                          It's not.  A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                          reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                          imagination a bit.

                          > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                          > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                          > than Latin.

                          ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                          using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                          A slight anachronism there, methinks  :)

                          --
                          Ray
                          ==================================
                          http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                          ==================================
                          "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                          magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                          and out of which almost anything may come
                          . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                          Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                          twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                          [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                        • Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones
                          ... LMGTFY ;-): Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is someone who thinks the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has been vacant since the death of
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                            On 19 Jan 2014 17:45, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?
                            >
                            >
                            LMGTFY ;-):

                            Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is someone who thinks
                            the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has been vacant since the death of either
                            Pius XII or Pius X, because the successors of each were, apparently,
                            sinners who supported the heresy of Modernism.

                            I hope they don't use cars, indoor toilets or decent sanitation...!

                            Jeff
                          • R A Brown
                            ... Pius X died in 1914 - indoors toilets and decent sanitation were around then; there were even cars, tho far fewer than today :) When Pius XII dies in
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                              On 19/01/2014 19:29, Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones wrote:
                              > On 19 Jan 2014 17:45, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?
                              >>
                              >>
                              > LMGTFY ;-):
                              >
                              > Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is
                              > someone who thinks the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has
                              > been vacant since the death of either Pius XII or Pius X,
                              > because the successors of each were, apparently, sinners
                              > who supported the heresy of Modernism.
                              >
                              > I hope they don't use cars, indoor toilets or decent
                              > sanitation...!

                              Pius X died in 1914 - indoors toilets and decent sanitation
                              were around then; there were even cars, tho far fewer than
                              today :)

                              When Pius XII dies in 1958, there were even quite a lot of
                              cars about. It was my first year at University :)

                              Modernism in theological terms is nothing to do with
                              toilets, sanitation or anything other artifact of the modern
                              world (it was in origin a movement among liberal Protestants
                              - but you can look it up if you interested). Apparently
                              some of them accuse Paul VIth of this - the same Pope that
                              many in the heyday of Vatican II accused of being too
                              conservative! It's like a politician being accused by some
                              of being ultra-liberal and by others of being too
                              conservative. Oh well, you can't please them all ;)

                              _sede_ BTW is the ablative of _sedes_. The term
                              'sedevacantist' is derived from the Latin ablative absolute
                              phrase: sede vacante = the seat being vacant.

                              I see the Wikipedia article mentions those who think that all
                              Popes from the time of Benedict V onwards have been invalid.
                              I've never come across that before and, if they do exist,
                              they are a *tiny* minority.

                              Now-a-days sedevacantist is normally understood to mean
                              those who think that John XXIII (the Pope who called the 2nd
                              Vatican Council) was invalidly elected & consecrated and
                              that the See of Peter has been vacant ever since; they do
                              not, of course, recognize Vatican II as a valid council of
                              the Catholic Church and, indeed, believe that council took
                              the bulk of the Church into heresy.

                              I think I've possibly said enough to clarify things and have
                              gone more than far enough into NCNC territory.

                              I suggest we just accept that "The Passion of the Christ" is
                              not a good example of a linguistically realistic movie and
                              leave it at that - and return to the original thread.

                              --
                              Ray
                              ==================================
                              http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                              ==================================
                              "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                              magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                              and out of which almost anything may come
                              . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                              Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                              twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                              [J.R.R. Tolkien]
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