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Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

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  • James Kane
    I think I read somewhere that Greek was more likely to be used as a Lingua Franca in that region and Latin would be more used only among the Romans. Other than
    Message 1 of 21 , May 24 6:15 PM
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      I think I read somewhere that Greek was more likely to be used as a Lingua Franca in that region and Latin would be more used only among the Romans.

      Other than that I don't have anything particularly useful to add.


      James

      On 25/05/2013, at 12:42 PM, Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinger42@...> wrote:

      > The Passion had ecclesiastical Latin instead of Vulgar Latin spoken by the
      > Romans, so it's not exactly accurate.
      >
      >
      > On 24 May 2013 20:41, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
      >
      >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
      >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
      >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
      >>
      >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
      >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
      >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
      >>
      >> Até mais!
      >>
      >> Leonardo
      >>
    • Roger Mills
      Didn t Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language???? ... From: Leonardo Castro
      Message 2 of 21 , May 24 7:52 PM
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        Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language????

        --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

        From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
        Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
        To: CONLANG@...
        Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM

        Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
        that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
        possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?

        Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
        describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
        Roman Egypt speaking English).

        Até mais!

        Leonardo
      • Adam Walker
        Yes. That was Mel. The movie is Apocalypto. Adam
        Message 3 of 21 , May 24 7:56 PM
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          Yes. That was Mel. The movie is Apocalypto.

          Adam

          On 5/24/13, Roger Mills <romiltz@...> wrote:
          > Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish conquest
          > of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
          >
          > --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
          > Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
          > To: CONLANG@...
          > Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
          >
          > Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
          > that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
          > possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
          >
          > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
          > describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
          > Roman Egypt speaking English).
          >
          > Até mais!
          >
          > Leonardo
          >
        • George Corley
          I have heard that that was an anachronistic variant of Mayan as well.
          Message 4 of 21 , May 24 8:00 PM
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            I have heard that that was an anachronistic variant of Mayan as well.


            On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 9:56 PM, Adam Walker <carraxan@...> wrote:

            > Yes. That was Mel. The movie is Apocalypto.
            >
            > Adam
            >
            > On 5/24/13, Roger Mills <romiltz@...> wrote:
            > > Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish
            > conquest
            > > of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
            > >
            > > --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
            > > Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
            > > To: CONLANG@...
            > > Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
            > >
            > > Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
            > > that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
            > > possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
            > >
            > > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
            > > describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
            > > Roman Egypt speaking English).
            > >
            > > Até mais!
            > >
            > > Leonardo
            > >
            >
          • Zach Wellstood
            I m not sure of its accuracy, but there was an Amerindian language spoken in that film. It s called Apocalypto (and I d quite good, linguistics aside). There s
            Message 5 of 21 , May 24 8:01 PM
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              I'm not sure of its accuracy, but there was an Amerindian language spoken
              in that film. It's called Apocalypto (and I'd quite good, linguistics
              aside).

              There's also a movie called The New World (2005) which takes place in
              Jamestown I think. The native Americans in the film speak a reconstructed
              proto-Algonquian language, which was put together by a linguist.

              Zach
              On May 24, 2013 10:53 PM, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:

              > Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish
              > conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
              >
              > --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
              >
              > From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
              > Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
              > To: CONLANG@...
              > Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
              >
              > Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
              > that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
              > possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
              >
              > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
              > describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
              > Roman Egypt speaking English).
              >
              > Até mais!
              >
              > Leonardo
              >
            • James W
              There s some Lakota (I think) in Hidalgo. Not a lot, and I don t know how time-accurate it is. James W
              Message 6 of 21 , May 24 8:17 PM
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                There's some Lakota (I think) in Hidalgo. Not a lot, and I don't know how time-accurate it is.

                James W

                On May 24, 2013, at 22:01, Zach Wellstood <zwellstood@...> wrote:

                > I'm not sure of its accuracy, but there was an Amerindian language spoken
                > in that film. It's called Apocalypto (and I'd quite good, linguistics
                > aside).
                >
                > There's also a movie called The New World (2005) which takes place in
                > Jamestown I think. The native Americans in the film speak a reconstructed
                > proto-Algonquian language, which was put together by a linguist.
                >
                > Zach
                > On May 24, 2013 10:53 PM, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:
                >
                >> Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish
                >> conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
                >>
                >> --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                >>
                >> From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
                >> Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
                >> To: CONLANG@...
                >> Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
                >>
                >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                >>
                >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                >>
                >> Até mais!
                >>
                >> Leonardo
                >>
              • MorphemeAddict
                Dances with Wolves has Lakota in it. stevo
                Message 7 of 21 , May 24 9:45 PM
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                  Dances with Wolves has Lakota in it.

                  stevo


                  On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 11:17 PM, James W <emindahken@...> wrote:

                  > There's some Lakota (I think) in Hidalgo. Not a lot, and I don't know how
                  > time-accurate it is.
                  >
                  > James W
                  >
                  > On May 24, 2013, at 22:01, Zach Wellstood <zwellstood@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > > I'm not sure of its accuracy, but there was an Amerindian language spoken
                  > > in that film. It's called Apocalypto (and I'd quite good, linguistics
                  > > aside).
                  > >
                  > > There's also a movie called The New World (2005) which takes place in
                  > > Jamestown I think. The native Americans in the film speak a reconstructed
                  > > proto-Algonquian language, which was put together by a linguist.
                  > >
                  > > Zach
                  > > On May 24, 2013 10:53 PM, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > >> Didn't Mel Gibson (or someone) also make a movie about the Spanish
                  > >> conquest of Central America that featured the Mayan language????
                  > >>
                  > >> --- On Fri, 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> From: Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>
                  > >> Subject: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.
                  > >> To: CONLANG@...
                  > >> Date: Friday, May 24, 2013, 8:41 PM
                  > >>
                  > >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                  > >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                  > >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                  > >>
                  > >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                  > >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                  > >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                  > >>
                  > >> Até mais!
                  > >>
                  > >> Leonardo
                  > >>
                  >
                • Jim Henry
                  ... There s Apocalypto , which used Yucatec Maya. -- Jim Henry http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/ http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 25 5:45 AM
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                    On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 8:41 PM, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                    > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm

                    There's "Apocalypto", which used Yucatec Maya.

                    --
                    Jim Henry
                    http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                    http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                  • Adam Walker
                    Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and the characters speak
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 25 6:41 AM
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                      Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
                      Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
                      the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
                      happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
                      restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
                      calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
                      that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
                      much frustration.

                      Adam

                      On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                      > Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                      > that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                      > possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                      >
                      > Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                      > describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                      > Roman Egypt speaking English).
                      >
                      > Até mais!
                      >
                      > Leonardo
                      >
                    • Leonardo Castro
                      Thanks to everyone for the suggestions! ... Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice of Mel Gibson.
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 26 11:55 AM
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                        Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!

                        2013/5/24 Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinger42@...>:
                        > The Passion had ecclesiastical Latin instead of Vulgar Latin spoken by the
                        > Romans, so it's not exactly accurate.

                        Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice
                        of Mel Gibson.

                        >
                        >
                        > On 24 May 2013 20:41, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                        >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                        >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                        >>
                        >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                        >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                        >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                        >>
                        >> Até mais!
                        >>
                        >> Leonardo
                        >>
                      • Leonardo Castro
                        I ve just finished watching Amistad, that has English, Spanish and Mende. As it s a more recent story, I guess they didn t reconstruct anything. Até mais!
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 28 4:03 AM
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                          I've just finished watching Amistad, that has English, Spanish and
                          Mende. As it's a more recent story, I guess they didn't reconstruct
                          anything.

                          Até mais!

                          Leonardo


                          2013/5/26 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
                          > Thanks to everyone for the suggestions!
                          >
                          > 2013/5/24 Dustfinger Batailleur <dustfinger42@...>:
                          >> The Passion had ecclesiastical Latin instead of Vulgar Latin spoken by the
                          >> Romans, so it's not exactly accurate.
                          >
                          > Yes, I had already heard about it and that it was a conscious choice
                          > of Mel Gibson.
                          >
                          >>
                          >>
                          >> On 24 May 2013 20:41, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                          >>
                          >>> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                          >>> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                          >>> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                          >>>
                          >>> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                          >>> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                          >>> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                          >>>
                          >>> Até mais!
                          >>>
                          >>> Leonardo
                          >>>
                        • Leonardo Castro
                          ... I m watching this movie right now. These are all still living languages, aren t they? BTW, I was watching the movie Gray Matters on YouTube* and then
                          Message 12 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                            2013/5/25 Adam Walker <carraxan@...>:
                            > Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
                            > Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
                            > the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
                            > happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
                            > restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
                            > calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
                            > that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
                            > much frustration.
                            >
                            > Adam

                            I'm watching this movie right now. These are all still living
                            languages, aren't they?

                            BTW, I was watching the movie "Gray Matters" on YouTube* and then
                            YouTube suggested a lot of female-homosexuality-related movies. What
                            surprised me is that the first suggested ones were in language which I
                            had never before watched a movie in:

                            Yes or No (Thai)
                            Eloïse's Lover (Catalan)
                            Rome & Juliet (Filipino)
                            Fucking Åmål (Swedish)

                            There was also "Nina's Heavenly Delights" that is actually in English
                            but about Indian immigrants in Scotland.

                            I wonder if there's something intrinsically more international in
                            movies on this subject or if it's just a matter of being a subject
                            that you must search many countries' productions to have a meaningful
                            sample.

                            *: I don't know if it's a copyright infringement, but I guess it's not
                            up to me to know it, it's a problem between those that who posted and
                            that have the copyright. Maybe there's some short phrase to say all of
                            this I have just said. Maybe "no copyright infringement intended" or
                            NCII?!

                            Até mais!

                            Leonardo

                            >
                            > On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                            >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                            >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                            >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                            >>
                            >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                            >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                            >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                            >>
                            >> Até mais!
                            >>
                            >> Leonardo
                            >>.
                          • Siva Kalyan
                            It s been pointed out that The Passion of the Christ may not be entirely accurate, in that the Romans would probably have been speaking Koine Greek (at least
                            Message 13 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                              It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ" may not be entirely
                              accurate, in that the Romans would probably have been speaking Koine Greek
                              (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather than Latin.


                              On 19 January 2014 00:28, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:

                              > 2013/5/25 Adam Walker <carraxan@...>:
                              > > Maybe this Macedonian movie I watched last week fits. The title is
                              > > Before the Rain. The firs part of the movie is set in Macedonia and
                              > > the characters speak either Macedonian or Albanian. The middle part
                              > > happens in London and is in English except for a scene at a
                              > > restaurant. Part three goes back to Macedonia. There are some phone
                              > > calls in volving attempts to communicate without a common language
                              > > that involve scattered bits of Macedonian, English, French, German and
                              > > much frustration.
                              > >
                              > > Adam
                              >
                              > I'm watching this movie right now. These are all still living
                              > languages, aren't they?
                              >
                              > BTW, I was watching the movie "Gray Matters" on YouTube* and then
                              > YouTube suggested a lot of female-homosexuality-related movies. What
                              > surprised me is that the first suggested ones were in language which I
                              > had never before watched a movie in:
                              >
                              > Yes or No (Thai)
                              > Eloïse's Lover (Catalan)
                              > Rome & Juliet (Filipino)
                              > Fucking Åmål (Swedish)
                              >
                              > There was also "Nina's Heavenly Delights" that is actually in English
                              > but about Indian immigrants in Scotland.
                              >
                              > I wonder if there's something intrinsically more international in
                              > movies on this subject or if it's just a matter of being a subject
                              > that you must search many countries' productions to have a meaningful
                              > sample.
                              >
                              > *: I don't know if it's a copyright infringement, but I guess it's not
                              > up to me to know it, it's a problem between those that who posted and
                              > that have the copyright. Maybe there's some short phrase to say all of
                              > this I have just said. Maybe "no copyright infringement intended" or
                              > NCII?!
                              >
                              > Até mais!
                              >
                              > Leonardo
                              >
                              > >
                              > > On 5/24/13, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
                              > >> Do you have any suggestions of good linguistically realistic movies,
                              > >> that is, movies that portray the languages or dialects as close as
                              > >> possible to the ones used in the time and location of the story?
                              > >>
                              > >> Maybe "The Passion of the Christ" is a good example of what I'm
                              > >> describing, and "Agora" is a good counter-example (with people in
                              > >> Roman Egypt speaking English).
                              > >>
                              > >> Até mais!
                              > >>
                              > >> Leonardo
                              > >>.
                              >
                            • R A Brown
                              ... It s not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate s reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the imagination a bit. ... ... and when they did
                              Message 14 of 21 , Jan 18, 2014
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                                On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                                > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                                > may not be entirely accurate,

                                It's not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                                reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                                imagination a bit.

                                > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                                > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                                > than Latin.

                                ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                                using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                                A slight anachronism there, methinks :)

                                --
                                Ray
                                ==================================
                                http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                ==================================
                                "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                                magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                                and out of which almost anything may come
                                . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                                Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                                twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                                [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                              • Pete Bleackley
                                Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can t expect sanity, let alone accuracy. -- Pete Bleackley ... From: R A Brown To:
                                Message 15 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                                  Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                                  --
                                  Pete Bleackley

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: R A Brown <ray@...>
                                  To: CONLANG@...
                                  Sent: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 7:07
                                  Subject: Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

                                  On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                                  > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                                  > may not be entirely accurate,

                                  It's not. A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                                  reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                                  imagination a bit.

                                  > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                                  > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                                  > than Latin.

                                  ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                                  using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                                  A slight anachronism there, methinks :)

                                  --
                                  Ray
                                  ==================================
                                  http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                  ==================================
                                  "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                                  magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                                  and out of which almost anything may come
                                  . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                                  Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                                  twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                                  [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                                • R A Brown
                                  ... I know. ... I agree with you on both points; and there is more I could say - but that would be trespassing well into NCNC territory. I think it suffices to
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                                    On 19/01/2014 08:41, Pete Bleackley wrote:
                                    > Well, [The Passion of the Christ] was produced by a
                                    > Sedevacantist,

                                    I know.

                                    > so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                                    I agree with you on both points; and there is more I could
                                    say - but that would be trespassing well into NCNC territory.

                                    I think it suffices to say on the list that the film is
                                    _not_ an example of a linguistically realistic film.

                                    The languages of this film have been discussed on this list
                                    before. Anyone interested should be able to find the thread
                                    in the conlang archives.

                                    --
                                    Ray
                                    ==================================
                                    http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                    ==================================
                                    "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                                    magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                                    and out of which almost anything may come
                                    . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                                    Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                                    twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                                    [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                                  • Roger Mills
                                    Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_? On Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:38 AM, Pete Bleackley wrote: Well, it was
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                                      Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?




                                      On Sunday, January 19, 2014 3:38 AM, Pete Bleackley <pete.bleackley@...> wrote:

                                      Well, it was produced by a Sedevacantist, so you can't expect sanity, let alone accuracy.

                                      --
                                      Pete Bleackley


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: R A Brown <ray@...>
                                      To: CONLANG@...
                                      Sent: Sun, 19 Jan 2014 7:07
                                      Subject: Re: Suggestions of linguistically realistic movies.

                                      On 19/01/2014 00:09, Siva Kalyan wrote:
                                      > It's been pointed out that "The Passion of the Christ"
                                      > may not be entirely accurate,

                                      It's not.  A Roman official. especially one of Pilate's
                                      reputation, actually speaking Aramaic stretches the
                                      imagination a bit.

                                      > in that the Romans would probably have been speaking
                                      > Koine Greek (at least when addressing non-Romans) rather
                                      > than Latin.

                                      ... and when they did speak Latin, they would not have been
                                      using the Italianate pronunciation of modern church Latin!

                                      A slight anachronism there, methinks  :)

                                      --
                                      Ray
                                      ==================================
                                      http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                      ==================================
                                      "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                                      magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                                      and out of which almost anything may come
                                      . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                                      Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                                      twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                                      [J.R.R. Tolkien]
                                    • Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones
                                      ... LMGTFY ;-): Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is someone who thinks the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has been vacant since the death of
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                                        On 19 Jan 2014 17:45, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?
                                        >
                                        >
                                        LMGTFY ;-):

                                        Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is someone who thinks
                                        the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has been vacant since the death of either
                                        Pius XII or Pius X, because the successors of each were, apparently,
                                        sinners who supported the heresy of Modernism.

                                        I hope they don't use cars, indoor toilets or decent sanitation...!

                                        Jeff
                                      • R A Brown
                                        ... Pius X died in 1914 - indoors toilets and decent sanitation were around then; there were even cars, tho far fewer than today :) When Pius XII dies in
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Jan 19, 2014
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                                          On 19/01/2014 19:29, Jeffrey Daniel Rollin-Jones wrote:
                                          > On 19 Jan 2014 17:45, "Roger Mills" <romiltz@...>
                                          > wrote:
                                          >>
                                          >> Please enlighten me-- what is _ Sedevacantist_?
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          > LMGTFY ;-):
                                          >
                                          > Apparently (according to Wikipedia), a Sedevacantist is
                                          > someone who thinks the papal seat (sede, in Latin) has
                                          > been vacant since the death of either Pius XII or Pius X,
                                          > because the successors of each were, apparently, sinners
                                          > who supported the heresy of Modernism.
                                          >
                                          > I hope they don't use cars, indoor toilets or decent
                                          > sanitation...!

                                          Pius X died in 1914 - indoors toilets and decent sanitation
                                          were around then; there were even cars, tho far fewer than
                                          today :)

                                          When Pius XII dies in 1958, there were even quite a lot of
                                          cars about. It was my first year at University :)

                                          Modernism in theological terms is nothing to do with
                                          toilets, sanitation or anything other artifact of the modern
                                          world (it was in origin a movement among liberal Protestants
                                          - but you can look it up if you interested). Apparently
                                          some of them accuse Paul VIth of this - the same Pope that
                                          many in the heyday of Vatican II accused of being too
                                          conservative! It's like a politician being accused by some
                                          of being ultra-liberal and by others of being too
                                          conservative. Oh well, you can't please them all ;)

                                          _sede_ BTW is the ablative of _sedes_. The term
                                          'sedevacantist' is derived from the Latin ablative absolute
                                          phrase: sede vacante = the seat being vacant.

                                          I see the Wikipedia article mentions those who think that all
                                          Popes from the time of Benedict V onwards have been invalid.
                                          I've never come across that before and, if they do exist,
                                          they are a *tiny* minority.

                                          Now-a-days sedevacantist is normally understood to mean
                                          those who think that John XXIII (the Pope who called the 2nd
                                          Vatican Council) was invalidly elected & consecrated and
                                          that the See of Peter has been vacant ever since; they do
                                          not, of course, recognize Vatican II as a valid council of
                                          the Catholic Church and, indeed, believe that council took
                                          the bulk of the Church into heresy.

                                          I think I've possibly said enough to clarify things and have
                                          gone more than far enough into NCNC territory.

                                          I suggest we just accept that "The Passion of the Christ" is
                                          not a good example of a linguistically realistic movie and
                                          leave it at that - and return to the original thread.

                                          --
                                          Ray
                                          ==================================
                                          http://www.carolandray.plus.com
                                          ==================================
                                          "'Celtic' of any sort is, nonetheless, a
                                          magic bag, into which anything may be put,
                                          and out of which almost anything may come
                                          . ... Anything is possible in the fabulous
                                          Celtic twilight, which is not so much a
                                          twilight of the gods as of the reason."
                                          [J.R.R. Tolkien]
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