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Re: Translation: Christmas songs in May-- Completed !!

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  • James Kane
    Wow this is very well done! I especially like the porcupine scale one! What programme do you use to make this? James
    Message 1 of 15 , May 7, 2013
      Wow this is very well done! I especially like the porcupine scale one! What programme do you use to make this?

      James

      On 8/05/2013, at 11:18 AM, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:

      > On 5/6/2013 9:28 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
      >> --- On Sat, 5/4/13, Herman Miller<hmiller@...> wrote:
      >> On 5/4/2013 3:32 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
      >>> A bit of whimsy. Don't know why this was going thru my head this morning:
      >>> Gwr.
      >>>
      >>> lu-H doq-L o-H trang-M how-F leN-M dr-L
      >>> ki-L ye-M hing-hing-M how-F
      >>>
      >>> Lu-do? that red-nose (k.o. animal)
      >>> to him very-shiny nose...
      >>
      >> Nice work getting it all to fit the melody. Let's see how far I can get in Jarda.
      >> ================================================
      >>
      >> The easy part was that the original has lots of monosyllables, or 2-syl that can easily be reduced to mono forms (compounds or reduplications....)
      >>
      >> Since the Gwr were, anciently, aggressively into things Octal, I suppose their music used an 8-tone scale (is that like the ancient Greek modes? no sharps or flats??). If you have time or inclination, Herman, it might be amusing to hear the melody recast into that sort of thing.....???
      >> =============================================
      >
      > Well, I've got a few different versions, starting with the porcupine scale.
      >
      > https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-porcupine.mp3?attredirects=0
      >
      > As far as the melody goes, the most obvious difference is that the leading tone (what would be G in the regular diatonic key of A-flat) is flat (more like a G-flat than a G). It's actually in the key of H. There are equal-sized steps from A-B, B-C, C-D, D-E, E-F, F-G, and G-H, and a smaller step from H-A. The harmony has quite a few changes, most of which are related to the different harmonic structure of the porcupine scale.
      >
      > The next version is an 8-note equal scale with narrowed octaves, a kind of optimized scale called "8dino" with equal steps of 148.13 cents each. Not a very pleasant tuning, but there it is for comparison.
      >
      > https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-8dino.mp3?attredirects=0
      >
      > Then there's the diminished scale. It sounds like Danny Elfman got his hands on it.
      >
      > https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-diminished.mp3?attredirects=0
      >
      > A couple of other scales that might be options: the harmonic series from 8 to 15, or a subharmonic scale (like a mirror image of the harmonic series). I'd need to rewrite the whole thing to sound good in one of those scales, but I can see those as being reasonable options for an 8-note scale. The harmonic series comes up naturally when playing horns, and the subharmonic series from equally-spaced frets on a stringed instrument.
      >
      >> Ŗudoł, tis-kjul sŏl-vaz-ni,
      >> Rudolph, ice-deer fire-nose-with
      >> (Jarda does technically have a word for "red", but it dates from before I decided that Jarda was a Sangari language, and Sangari don't see red as a color distinct from yellow. Besides, I like the idea of an ice deer with a fire nose.)
      >>
      >> ni-an vŏ vaz łim-ê śṛa.
      >> have-PAST.IMPF he nose shine-ACT.PART very
      >>
      >> It should really be "nian vōra (ergative) vaz łimê śṛa", but that doesn't fit. The whole sentence would normally go "Nian Ŗudołṛa, tiskjulṛa sŏlvazni, vaz łimê śṛa".
      >>
      >> au sin nês-ki lô-ṛa vŏ
      >> and if see-SUBJ you-ERG it
      >>
      >> têz-ki lô-ṛa pa łim vŏ
      >> say-SUBJ you-ERG that glow it
      >>
      >> Yes, unfortunately the word for "shine" and "glow" is the same in Jarda.
      >>
      >> kêb-an sjul tis-kjul-ŗa klêd
      >> laugh-PAST.IMPF all ice-deer-ERG other
      >>
      >> It should technically be "kêban sjulnên" (with a classifier).
      >>
      >> au nŭ-vôn-an dü-ṛa vŏ
      >> and dis-honor-PAST.IMPF they-ERG him
      >>
      >> va-tên-an Rudoł bṛaṛ-vam
      >> not-allow-PAST.IMPF Rudolph luck-less
      >>
      >> zur büz ṛix plin tis-kjul-i
      >> associate ever for game ice-deer-GEN
      >
      > I might as well try to finish it.
      >
      > ķê ju-ğôm ğrep-ni łôm-vo
      > then one-CLASS fog-with night-LOC
      >
      > têz-en Senta-ṛa
      > say-PAST.PF Santa-ERG
      >
      > "Rudoł, łim śṛa lô-i vaz!
      > Rudolph, shine much you-GEN nose
      >
      > jêð zŭ wöm lô-ṛa tis-xêb"
      > suggest that guide you-ERG ice-car
      >
      > tôs-en sjul-nên tis-kjul-ṛa
      > love-PAST.PF all-CLASS ice-deer-ERG
      >
      > zê sjês-an maģis-ni sjul
      > while shout-PAST.IMPF delight-with
      >
      > "Ŗudoł, tis-kjul sŏl-vaz-ni,
      > Rudolph, ice-deer fire-nose-with
      >
      > śêṛ-ü lô-ṛa tŭl śtên-a"
      > become-FUT.PF you-ERG part history-GEN
      >
      > A Jarda speaker could do better, of course. My vocabulary is pretty limited, and song lyrics are hard enough to translate into your native language.
    • Roger Mills
      THESE ARE HILARIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!  GREAT JOB, HERMAN !!!! I think I prefer #1 and #3, but 2 is good too.  I might actually be able to sing along, as my singing
      Message 2 of 15 , May 8, 2013
        THESE ARE HILARIOUS !!!!!!!!!!!  GREAT JOB, HERMAN !!!!

        I think I prefer #1 and #3, but 2 is good too. 

        I might actually be able to sing along, as my singing voice is a little micro-tonal at times ;-)))))

        --- On Tue, 5/7/13, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:

        From: Herman Miller <hmiller@...>
        Subject: Re: Translation: Christmas songs in May-- Completed !!
        To: CONLANG@...
        Date: Tuesday, May 7, 2013, 7:18 PM

        On 5/6/2013 9:28 AM, Roger Mills wrote:
        > --- On Sat, 5/4/13, Herman Miller<hmiller@...>  wrote:
        > On 5/4/2013 3:32 PM, Roger Mills wrote:
        >> A bit of whimsy. Don't know why this was going thru my head this morning:
        >> Gwr.
        >>
        >> lu-H doq-L o-H trang-M how-F leN-M dr-L
        >> ki-L ye-M hing-hing-M how-F
        >>
        >> Lu-do? that red-nose (k.o. animal)
        >> to him very-shiny nose...
        >
        > Nice work getting it all to fit the melody. Let's see how far I can get in Jarda.
        > ================================================
        >
        > The easy part was that the original has lots of monosyllables, or 2-syl that can easily be reduced to mono forms (compounds or reduplications....)
        >
        > Since the Gwr were, anciently, aggressively into things Octal, I suppose their music used an 8-tone scale (is that like the ancient Greek modes? no sharps or flats??). If you have time or inclination, Herman, it might be amusing to hear the melody recast into that sort of thing.....???
        > =============================================

        Well, I've got a few different versions, starting with the porcupine scale.

        https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-porcupine.mp3?attredirects=0

        As far as the melody goes, the most obvious difference is that the leading tone (what would be G in the regular diatonic key of A-flat) is flat (more like a G-flat than a G). It's actually in the key of H. There are equal-sized steps from A-B, B-C, C-D, D-E, E-F, F-G, and G-H, and a smaller step from H-A. The harmony has quite a few changes, most of which are related to the different harmonic structure of the porcupine scale.

        The next version is an 8-note equal scale with narrowed octaves, a kind of optimized scale called "8dino" with equal steps of 148.13 cents each. Not a very pleasant tuning, but there it is for comparison.

        https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-8dino.mp3?attredirects=0

        Then there's the diminished scale. It sounds like Danny Elfman got his hands on it.

        https://sites.google.com/site/teamouse/ludoq-diminished.mp3?attredirects=0

        A couple of other scales that might be options: the harmonic series from 8 to 15, or a subharmonic scale (like a mirror image of the harmonic series). I'd need to rewrite the whole thing to sound good in one of those scales, but I can see those as being reasonable options for an 8-note scale. The harmonic series comes up naturally when playing horns, and the subharmonic series from equally-spaced frets on a stringed instrument.

        > Ŗudoł, tis-kjul sŏl-vaz-ni,
        > Rudolph, ice-deer fire-nose-with
        > (Jarda does technically have a word for "red", but it dates from before I decided that Jarda was a Sangari language, and Sangari don't see red as a color distinct from yellow. Besides, I like the idea of an ice deer with a fire nose.)
        >
        > ni-an vŏ vaz łim-ê śṛa.
        > have-PAST.IMPF he nose shine-ACT.PART very
        >
        > It should really be "nian vōra (ergative) vaz łimê śṛa", but that doesn't fit. The whole sentence would normally go "Nian Ŗudołṛa, tiskjulṛa sŏlvazni, vaz łimê śṛa".
        >
        > au sin nês-ki lô-ṛa vŏ
        > and if see-SUBJ you-ERG it
        >
        > têz-ki lô-ṛa pa łim vŏ
        > say-SUBJ you-ERG that glow it
        >
        > Yes, unfortunately the word for "shine" and "glow" is the same in Jarda.
        >
        > kêb-an sjul tis-kjul-ŗa klêd
        > laugh-PAST.IMPF all ice-deer-ERG other
        >
        > It should technically be "kêban sjulnên" (with a classifier).
        >
        > au nŭ-vôn-an dü-ṛa vŏ
        > and dis-honor-PAST.IMPF they-ERG him
        >
        > va-tên-an Rudoł bṛaṛ-vam
        > not-allow-PAST.IMPF Rudolph luck-less
        >
        > zur büz ṛix plin tis-kjul-i
        > associate ever for game ice-deer-GEN

        I might as well try to finish it.

        ķê ju-ğôm ğrep-ni łôm-vo
        then one-CLASS fog-with night-LOC

        têz-en Senta-ṛa
        say-PAST.PF Santa-ERG

        "Rudoł, łim śṛa lô-i vaz!
        Rudolph, shine much you-GEN nose

        jêð zŭ wöm lô-ṛa tis-xêb"
        suggest that guide you-ERG ice-car

        tôs-en sjul-nên tis-kjul-ṛa
        love-PAST.PF all-CLASS ice-deer-ERG

        zê sjês-an maģis-ni sjul
        while shout-PAST.IMPF delight-with

        "Ŗudoł, tis-kjul sŏl-vaz-ni,
        Rudolph, ice-deer fire-nose-with

        śêṛ-ü lô-ṛa tŭl śtên-a"
        become-FUT.PF you-ERG part history-GEN

        A Jarda speaker could do better, of course. My vocabulary is pretty limited, and song lyrics are hard enough to translate into your native language.
      • Herman Miller
        ... Most of the sounds are from Garritan World Instruments, except for the celesta, which is from Garritan Personal Orchestra. (It uses Scala files for
        Message 3 of 15 , May 8, 2013
          On 5/8/2013 12:09 AM, James Kane wrote:
          > Wow this is very well done! I especially like the porcupine scale
          > one! What programme do you use to make this?

          Most of the sounds are from Garritan World Instruments, except for the
          celesta, which is from Garritan Personal Orchestra. (It uses Scala files
          for tuning.)
        • Roger Mills
          Well, it seems appropriate to revive this bit of whimsy....maybe? Enjoy! On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:53 PM, Herman Miller wrote: ...
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 4, 2013
            Well, it seems appropriate to revive this bit of whimsy....maybe?
            Enjoy!





            On Wednesday, May 8, 2013 6:53 PM, Herman Miller <hmiller@...> wrote:

            On 5/8/2013 12:09 AM, James Kane wrote:
            > Wow this is very well done! I especially like the porcupine scale
            > one! What programme do you use to make this?

            Most of the sounds are from Garritan World Instruments, except for the
            celesta, which is from Garritan Personal Orchestra. (It uses Scala files
            for tuning.)
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