Re: Conlangs and English Language History
- On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 07:50:37PM +0200, Christophe Grandsire-Koevoets wrote:
> On 30 April 2013 19:09, H. S. Teoh <hsteoh@...> wrote:[...]
> > Speaking of fronting... whence came the Greek -ου? IIRC, υ was
> > supposed to be a *front* rounded vowel? Why did it become [u] when
> > following /o/?
> You're looking at it the wrong way around: υ was originally [u] (and
> [u:] as well), and with a previous ο formed a diphthong [ou], written
> -ου. However, at some time υ was fronted to [y] (and [y:]). That
> happened only when υ was on its own, rather than as a part of a
> diphthong (and didn't even happen in all dialects of Greek, although
> the Koine did inherit it), so the fronting didn't influence the
> pronunciation of ου (which followed its own chain of changes, from
> [ou] to [o:] to [u:] and eventually in modern times to [u],
> paralleling the changes of ει).
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
Why was <grk>u</grk> fronted, though? Was it part of a chain-shift type
shift? Also, did it pass through intermediate POAs or was there some
other kind of process?
I've never quite understood why in many languages palatized [k] tends to
become something like [ts] or [tS] rather than, say, [c]. Why are the
intermediate POAs skipped? (Or are palatals inherently unstable and tend
to gravitate towards alveolars rather quickly?)
There are four kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.
- 2013/4/30 Herman Miller <hmiller@...>:
> On 4/30/2013 12:38 PM, Leonardo Castro wrote:Nice! I have already considered <ñ> or <ŋ> for /ŋ/ and <ñ> or <~> for
>> 2013/4/30 BPJ<bpj@...>:
>>> 2013-04-30 13:49, Leonardo Castro skrev:
>>>> BTW, does anyone have a system that distinguishes /n/, /m/, /N/ and a
>>>> general nasal stop /~/ with Roman characters?
>>> You mean nasalization like in French or Portuguese I suppose,
>>> coz that's what /~/ is.
>> I meant a nasal stop that has the same place of articulation as the
>> following consonant. That is, it "absorbs" the place of articulation
>> of the following consonant.
> Sounds like anusvara in Indic languages, which can be represented as m with
> a dot under it (ṃ). If you're using <ṃ>, you might as well also use <ṅ> (n
> with dot above) for /ŋ/.
> In Yasaro romanization I use <ñ> for homorganic nasals and <ŋ> (eng) for
homorganic nasals. I think your choices are probably the best looking;
"teñki" looks a lot better than "te~ki". There's also the option of
letting <n> always stand for homorganic nasals before consonants and
for /n/ before vowels, if you conlang doesn't have minimal pairs that
cause ambiguity in this system.