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conditional sentences

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  • neo gu
    I just figured out how to handle conditional sentences in Apr21. There s no specific word for if ; instead, one of the conjunctions for time (TMP), cause or
    Message 1 of 3 , Apr 27, 2013
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      I just figured out how to handle conditional sentences in Apr21. There's no specific word for "if"; instead, one of the conjunctions for time (TMP), cause or reason (BEC), or circumstances (CIR) is used. The conclusion appears before the condition and is preceded by either the conditional particle (CON) or the contrafactual particle (CTF).

      CON PN Mary dance TMP PN John sing. "If John sang, Mary danced (simultaneously)."
      CTF PN Mary dance CIR PN John sing. "If John had sung, Mary would've danced."

      The particles are also useful in satisfactive-result sentences (I don't know the accepted term). Here, the condition is usually omitted.

      PN John heavy SAT-DEG CON DEF chair break.
      "John is heavy enough for the chair to break."

      PN John heavy SAT-DEG CTF DEF chair break.
      "John is so heavy, the chair would've broken."

      The unconditional version is possible here:

      PN John heavy SAT-DEG DEF chair break.
      "John is so heavy, the chair broke."
    • Douglas Koller
      ... À la géarthnunsaise, the conclusion invokes -- wait for it -- the conclusive form of the verb. In your examples below, the former would be straight
      Message 2 of 3 , Apr 27, 2013
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        > Date: Sat, 27 Apr 2013 16:25:46 -0400
        > From: qiihoskeh@...
        > Subject: conditional sentences
        > To: CONLANG@...

        > I just figured out how to handle conditional sentences in Apr21. There's no specific word for "if"; instead, one of the conjunctions for time (TMP), cause or reason (BEC), or circumstances (CIR) is used. The conclusion appears before the condition and is preceded by either the conditional particle (CON) or the contrafactual particle (CTF).

        À la géarthnunsaise, the conclusion invokes -- wait for it -- the conclusive form of the verb. In your examples below, the former would be straight conclusive (akin to your CON); in the latter an irrealis marker, analysed as an adverb (akin to you CTF), pops up in the apodosis.

        > CON PN Mary dance TMP PN John sing. "If John sang, Mary danced (simultaneously)."
        > CTF PN Mary dance CIR PN John sing. "If John had sung, Mary would've danced."

        > The particles are also useful in satisfactive-result sentences (I don't know the accepted term). Here, the condition is usually omitted.

        > PN John heavy SAT-DEG CON DEF chair break.
        > "John is heavy enough for the chair to break."

        > PN John heavy SAT-DEG CTF DEF chair break.
        > "John is so heavy, the chair would've broken."

        > The unconditional version is possible here:

        > PN John heavy SAT-DEG DEF chair break.
        > "John is so heavy, the chair broke."

        All three of these, even the third, would have chair breakage in the conclusive.

        Kou
      • Anthony Miles
        R: Here are the same sentences in Siye: If John sang, Mary danced. This requires an imperfective irrealis protasis (-m-e-sum), and an imperfective
        Message 3 of 3 , Apr 29, 2013
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          <snip>
          R: Here are the same sentences in Siye:
          "If John sang, Mary danced."
          This requires an imperfective irrealis protasis (-m-e-sum), and an imperfective irrealis apodosis (-m-e-su).
          Som isipunamesum, Lom umhilotesupusumtamkimesu.
          Som-0 i-si-pu-na-m-e-sum
          John-NOM 3.AN-speak.IMPFV-SG-DIR.UP-ASP.IMPFV-IRREALIS-CONDITIONAL
          Lom-0 um-i-lotesu-pu-sum-tam-ki-m-e-su
          Lom-NOM REFL-3.AN-dance-SG-CAUS-CON(TINUATIVE)-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.IMPFV-IRREALIS-CONCLUSIVE

          "If John had sung, Mary would have danced."
          This requires a perfective irrealis protasis (-n-e-sum), and a perfective irrealis apodosis (-n-e-su).
          Som iyepunanesum, Lom umhilotesupusumkinesu.
          Som-0 i-ye-pu-na-n-e-sum
          John-NOM 3.AN-speak.PFV-SG-DIR.UP-ASP.PFV-IRREALIS-CONDITIONAL
          Lom-0 um-i-lotesu-pu-sum-ki-n-e-su
          Lom-NOM REFL-3.AN-dance-SG-CAUS-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.PFV-IRREALIS-CONCLUSIVE

          My addition:
          "If John had not sung, Mary would not have danced"
          This requires a perfective negative irrealis protasis (-n-e-ku-sum), and a perfective negative irrealis apodosis (-n-e-ku-su).
          Som iyepunanekusum, Lom umhilotesupusumkinekusu.
          Som-0 i-ye-pu-na-n-e-ku-sum
          John-NOM 3.AN-speak.PFV-SG-DIR.UP-ASP.PFV-IRREALIS-NEG-CONDITIONAL
          Lom-0 um-i-lotesu-pu-sum-ki-n-e-ku-su
          Lom-NOM REFL-3.AN-dance-SG-CAUS-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.PFV-IRREALIS-NEG-CONCLUSIVE


          "John is heavy enough for the chair to break."
          This requires an imperfective positive realis verb in the main clause (-m-a), and an imperfective irrealis verb in the potential result clause (-m-e-ki).
          Som kipopu ikimpukima, kemsumnaki umhenupusumnumeki.
          Som-0 kipo-pu i-kim-pu-ki-m-a
          John-NOM heavy.one-EQ(UATIVE) 3.AN-to.be-SG-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.IMPFV-POS.REALIS
          kemsumnaki-0 um-e-nu-pu-sum-nu-m-e-ki
          chair-ABS REFL-3.IN-make.IMPFV-SG-CAUS-DIR.DOWN-ASP.IMPFV-IRREALIS-PURPOSE/RESULT

          "John is so heavy, the chair would've broken."
          This requires an imperfective positive realis verb in the main clause (-m-a), and a perfective irrealis verb in the contrafactual result clause (-n-e-ki).
          Som kipopu ikimpukima, kemsumnaki umhekepusumnuneki.
          Som-0 kipo-pu i-kim-pu-ki-m-a
          John-NOM heavy.one-EQ(UATIVE) 3.AN-to.be-SG-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.IMPFV-POS.REALIS
          kemsumnaki-0 um-e-ke-pu-sum-nu-n-e-ki
          chair-ABS REFL-3.IN-make.PFV-SG-CAUS-DIR.DOWN-ASP.PFV-IRREALIS-PURPOSE/RESULT


          "John is so heavy, the chair broke."
          This requires an imperfective positive realis verb in the main clause (-m-a), and a perfective realis verb in the result clause (-n-a-ki).
          Som kipopu ekimpukima, kemsumnaki umhekepusumnunaki.
          John-NOM heavy.one-EQ(UATIVE) 3.AN-to.be-SG-DIR."STATIONARY"-ASP.PFV-POS.REALIS
          kemsumnaki-0 um-e-ke-pu-sum-nu-n-a-ki
          chair-ABS REFL-3.IN-make.PFV-SG-CAUS-DIR.DOWN-ASP.PFV-POS.REALIS-PURPOSE/RESULT
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