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Re: Congratulations to David Peterson on DEFIANCE!

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  • George Corley
    ... The show does have a companion video game (a shooter MMO). I wouldn t be too surprised if they licensed a table-top setting if it continues to succeed. I
    Message 1 of 25 , Apr 17, 2013
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      On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 6:05 PM, Matthew George <matt.msg@...> wrote:

      > I found myself trying to assign D&D stat modifiers and alignments to the
      > various races as I watched the show.
      >
      > Matt G.
      >

      The show does have a companion video game (a shooter MMO). I wouldn't be
      too surprised if they licensed a table-top setting if it continues to
      succeed.

      I will say that Castithans and Irathients, from their supplemental
      descriptions, fit into the two stereotypical Elf groups somewhat
      (Castithans as High Elves, and Irathients as hippy nature elves).
    • John Q
      I found a really great (and lengthy) fan Q&A that David Peterson did a few days ago on Reddit. Incredibly informative. The link is:
      Message 2 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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        I found a really great (and lengthy) fan Q&A that David Peterson did a few days ago on Reddit. Incredibly informative. The link is:

        http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1chmc4/eseneziri_im_david_peterson_the_creator_of_the/

        Contained within the conversation are some great links, including the following absolutely hilarious spot featuring a Teach Yourself Castithan product for Spanish speakers:

        http://www.mun2.tv/news/entertainment/learn-castithan-and-watch-defiance-april-15-98c-only-syfy


        And I wish David had told me about the following "Linguistics Goes to Hollywood" event that occurred last night, featuring David, Klingon creator Mark Okrand, and Na'vi creator Paul Frommer. I would've liked to have gone! (OK, well maybe I'd rather have been in L.A. seeing Rush being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, but David & Co. would've been a close runner-up!) http://ling.ucsd.edu/docs/events/hollywood.html

        --John Q.
      • Adam Walker
        David did announce that event some while back, though it might have been on FB. I can t recall at this remove. I, too, would have loved to be there. Adam
        Message 3 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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          David did announce that event some while back, though it might have
          been on FB. I can't recall at this remove. I, too, would have loved
          to be there.

          Adam

          On 4/19/13, John Q <jquijada21@...> wrote:
          > I found a really great (and lengthy) fan Q&A that David Peterson did a few
          > days ago on Reddit. Incredibly informative. The link is:
          >
          > http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1chmc4/eseneziri_im_david_peterson_the_creator_of_the/
          >
          > Contained within the conversation are some great links, including the
          > following absolutely hilarious spot featuring a Teach Yourself Castithan
          > product for Spanish speakers:
          >
          > http://www.mun2.tv/news/entertainment/learn-castithan-and-watch-defiance-april-15-98c-only-syfy
          >
          >
          > And I wish David had told me about the following "Linguistics Goes to
          > Hollywood" event that occurred last night, featuring David, Klingon creator
          > Mark Okrand, and Na'vi creator Paul Frommer. I would've liked to have gone!
          > (OK, well maybe I'd rather have been in L.A. seeing Rush being inducted
          > into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, but David & Co. would've been a close
          > runner-up!) http://ling.ucsd.edu/docs/events/hollywood.html
          >
          > --John Q.
          >
        • John Q
          ... Oops! Got the date wrong. It s tonight! If anyone in the San Diego area is planning to go, maybe you can video-capture the event and post it?
          Message 4 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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            >And I wish David had told me about the following "Linguistics Goes to Hollywood" event that occurred last night, featuring David, Klingon creator Mark Okrand, and Na'vi creator Paul Frommer. I would've liked to have gone! (OK, well maybe I'd rather have been in L.A. seeing Rush being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, but David & Co. would've been a close runner-up!) http://ling.ucsd.edu/docs/events/hollywood.html
            >

            Oops! Got the date wrong. It's tonight! If anyone in the San Diego area is planning to go, maybe you can video-capture the event and post it?
          • BPJ
            ... I looked at it and learnt something new: the term heritage language (Thanks DP and JQ!). I wonder how I can have missed it all these years, as I m a lx
            Message 5 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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              2013-04-19 18:31, John Q skrev:
              > I found a really great (and lengthy) fan Q&A that David Peterson did a few days ago on Reddit. Incredibly informative. The link is:
              >
              > http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/1chmc4/eseneziri_im_david_peterson_the_creator_of_the/

              I looked at it and learnt something new: the term "heritage
              language" (Thanks DP and JQ!). I wonder how I can have missed
              it all these years, as I'm a lx nerd *and* a double heritage
              language speaker. I've always felt a bit guilty for mostly
              losing what actually was my first language, and it's always
              comforting to be one of a crowd rather than a stupid loner,
              isn't it?! ;-)

              I guess several of us have experience of being a heritage
              language speaker, yet I think the subject has never come up.

              /bpj
            • John Q
              ... Personally I wouldn t know, as all my pathetic attempts in my youth to be one of the crowd always ended in embarrassing failure. So for me, the stupid
              Message 6 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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                BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:

                >I looked at it and learnt something new: the term "heritage
                >language" . . . I've always felt a bit guilty for mostly
                >losing what actually was my first language, and it's always
                >comforting to be one of a crowd rather than a stupid loner,
                >isn't it?! ;-)
                --------------------------------------------------------------------

                Personally I wouldn't know, as all my pathetic attempts in my youth to be one of the crowd always ended in embarrassing failure. So for me, the "stupid loner" route has always been the only path available (although I wouldn't apply the "stupid" half of the moniker in my case). As for the heritage language issue, my parents were both native Spanish speakers but never taught it to their children. So I had to learn Spanish in high school and college.

                John Q.
              • H. S. Teoh
                ... Interesting. In my youth, I actually took pride in being out of the crowd. (So much so one day the headmaster called me into his office to ask why I was so
                Message 7 of 25 , Apr 19, 2013
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                  On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 06:49:18PM -0400, John Q wrote:
                  > BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >I looked at it and learnt something new: the term "heritage
                  > >language" . . . I've always felt a bit guilty for mostly
                  > >losing what actually was my first language, and it's always
                  > >comforting to be one of a crowd rather than a stupid loner,
                  > >isn't it?! ;-)
                  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                  >
                  > Personally I wouldn't know, as all my pathetic attempts in my youth to
                  > be one of the crowd always ended in embarrassing failure.

                  Interesting. In my youth, I actually took pride in being out of the
                  crowd. (So much so one day the headmaster called me into his office to
                  ask why I was so "different" from the other kids.) It wasn't until
                  college that I "opened up" socially.


                  > As for the heritage language issue, my parents were both native
                  > Spanish speakers but never taught it to their children. So I had to
                  > learn Spanish in high school and college.
                  [...]

                  It's sad, but inevitable: IIRC statistics show that native languages of
                  immigrants tend to die off after about 3 generations or so.

                  I'm seeing it all around me: Canadian-born descendents of Chinese
                  immigrants can't speak any Chinese after about 3 generations or so; a
                  Russian kid who immigrated here with his parents now only speaks Russian
                  to his mother alone (I can see how his kids will hardly speak a word of
                  Russian -- probably just a handful of words to talk to their grandma --
                  and *their* kids will completely lose the language altogether). Many
                  Chinese immigrant parents fight an uphill battle to retain the mother
                  tongue in their children, who are generally unwilling to learn it 'cos
                  they simply have no incentive to (their friends are either purely
                  English speakers or are in a similar situation of being forced to attend
                  extracurriculum Chinese classes and hating it). So they grow up
                  illiterate, and their kids will probably not speak a word of the
                  language at all.

                  I'm believe this happens with any minority group that is immersed in an
                  environment that predominantly speaks another language. There are
                  exceptions, of course, like immigrants who live in Chinatown all their
                  lives -- but then they form a kind of clique so that there is still an
                  environment in which the language is still being exclusively used.
                  Without such exclusive environment of some sort, it seems that in about
                  3 generations they will be assimilated.


                  T

                  --
                  It's bad luck to be superstitious. -- YHL
                • BPJ
                  ... Ditto, and notice the winking smiley! There be irony! It wasn t until I dared to seek out other nerds that I finally fit in somewhere. ... I both took
                  Message 8 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                    2013-04-20 01:16, H. S. Teoh skrev:
                    > On Fri, Apr 19, 2013 at 06:49:18PM -0400, John Q wrote:
                    >> BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >>> I looked at it and learnt something new: the term "heritage
                    >>> language" . . . I've always felt a bit guilty for mostly
                    >>> losing what actually was my first language, and it's always
                    >>> comforting to be one of a crowd rather than a stupid loner,
                    >>> isn't it?! ;-)
                    >> --------------------------------------------------------------------
                    >>
                    >> Personally I wouldn't know, as all my pathetic attempts in my youth to
                    >> be one of the crowd always ended in embarrassing failure.

                    Ditto, and notice the winking smiley! There be irony!

                    It wasn't until I dared to seek out other nerds
                    that I finally fit in somewhere.

                    >
                    > Interesting. In my youth, I actually took pride in being out of the
                    > crowd. (So much so one day the headmaster called me into his office to
                    > ask why I was so "different" from the other kids.) It wasn't until
                    > college that I "opened up" socially.

                    I both took pride in my otherness and suffered from it
                    both at my first school for motor disabled children and
                    later at ordinary school, being the only one who was
                    nerdy in both places. Being the oddball in a small
                    place ain't fun!

                    >> As for the heritage language issue, my parents were both native
                    >> Spanish speakers but never taught it to their children. So I had to
                    >> learn Spanish in high school and college.
                    > [...]

                    I was entitled to German 'home language' classes at
                    school, with meagre results: I can't really spell, my
                    grammar is so-so and there are big holes in my
                    vocabulary -- and the entire preterite is missing from
                    my morphology! I later got passable grades in ordinary
                    German classes thanks to my killer pronunciation and
                    comprehension, and am reasonably able to translate
                    German to Swedish, but my English is way better; after
                    all I manage to get paid for translating *into*
                    English! I don't speak German even with my mother
                    anymore. Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination
                    of having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                    crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very wrong
                    ideas. I usually try to fake a thick Swedish accent.

                    >
                    > It's sad, but inevitable: IIRC statistics show that native languages of
                    > immigrants tend to die off after about 3 generations or so.

                    Yeah. I have friends with various heritage languages,
                    some of whom have kids/nephews/nieces and can only
                    confirm. My kids know no Finnish (their mom's
                    heritage language) and only varying degrees of
                    ordinary school German.

                    I even felt shame about my heritage language: I was
                    bullied for speaking "the Nazi language". Once I got
                    complimented for the same thing which was even worse!

                    /bpj
                  • David Peterson
                    ... That latter is a major problem for most heritage speakers: Great pronunciation, poor grammar. If you visit the country and they think of you as a
                    Message 9 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                      On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:44 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:

                      > Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination
                      > of having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                      > crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very wrong
                      > ideas.

                      That latter is a major problem for most heritage speakers: Great pronunciation, poor grammar. If you visit the country and they think of you as a foreigner, you're fine: they'll just treat you like a non-speaker. But if you pronounce anything or say anything and you sound native, they're really puzzled (and sometimes upset) that you're not perfectly fluent. It's like, "You just introduced yourself and ordered food fine. What's wrong with you?" Makes a lot of heritage speakers feel ashamed of the knowledge they *do* have and try to hide it.

                      David Peterson
                      LCS President
                      president@...
                      www.conlang.org
                    • H. S. Teoh
                      ... [...] Whoa. You just perfectly described my experience with Chinese (Mandarin)... I can speak it pretty fluently -- for casual conversations, anyway -- but
                      Message 10 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                        On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 02:25:05PM -0700, David Peterson wrote:
                        > On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:44 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination
                        > > of having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                        > > crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very wrong
                        > > ideas.
                        >
                        > That latter is a major problem for most heritage speakers: Great
                        > pronunciation, poor grammar. If you visit the country and they think
                        > of you as a foreigner, you're fine: they'll just treat you like a
                        > non-speaker. But if you pronounce anything or say anything and you
                        > sound native, they're really puzzled (and sometimes upset) that you're
                        > not perfectly fluent. It's like, "You just introduced yourself and
                        > ordered food fine. What's wrong with you?" Makes a lot of heritage
                        > speakers feel ashamed of the knowledge they *do* have and try to hide
                        > it.
                        [...]

                        Whoa. You just perfectly described my experience with Chinese
                        (Mandarin)... I can speak it pretty fluently -- for casual
                        conversations, anyway -- but I'm illiterate and have a lot of trouble
                        when it comes to more technical vocabulary (and sometimes even certain
                        common words). Sometimes I shy away from speaking it, because as soon as
                        someone hears my pronunciation they assume that I can understand 100% no
                        matter how technical the conversation gets -- and then they're surprised
                        when I fumble. Or sometimes I'm carrying out a conversation in perfect
                        Mandarin and then they're surprised that I don't know a common word or
                        expression. :-(

                        Ironically enough, something similar happened with my Russian. I've paid
                        a lot of attention to proper pronunciation and grammar but my every-day
                        vocabulary is pretty poor. So native speakers are often delighted that I
                        don't "sound like a foreigner" -- but then they start saying something
                        beyond my comprehension, and are surprised or greatly disappointed when
                        I have trouble following them (or am totally lost, as often happens).

                        Sigh. That's the problem with being a conlanger: I pay too much
                        attention to grammar/phonotactics and neglect boring old
                        vocabulary-building. :-P


                        T

                        --
                        Gone Chopin. Bach in a minuet.
                      • BPJ
                        ... One solution which I ve sometimes used when it comes to ordering food is to go to ethnic resturants where the staff can be expected not to speak perfect
                        Message 11 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                          2013-04-20 23:25, David Peterson skrev:
                          > On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:44 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >> Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination of
                          >> having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                          >> crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very
                          >> wrong ideas.
                          >
                          > That latter is a major problem for most heritage
                          > speakers: Great pronunciation, poor grammar. If you
                          > visit the country and they think of you as a
                          > foreigner, you're fine: they'll just treat you like a
                          > non-speaker. But if you pronounce anything or say
                          > anything and you sound native, they're really puzzled
                          > (and sometimes upset) that you're not perfectly
                          > fluent. It's like, "You just introduced yourself and
                          > ordered food fine. What's wrong with you?" Makes a
                          > lot of heritage speakers feel ashamed of the
                          > knowledge they *do* have and try to hide it.

                          One solution which I've sometimes used when it comes to
                          ordering food is to go to ethnic resturants where the staff
                          can be expected not to speak perfect German themselves.
                          They won't notice, care or have an attitude. I've eaten
                          lots of souvlaki in Germany! :-)

                          Last time we were over someone got visibly upset that I
                          who sat in a wheelchair could speak German but my wife
                          who 'drove' couldn't. I have to put up with that
                          particular kind of crap too! It's the same everywhere
                          of course and I've gotten used to just ignore it to the
                          point that I don't notice it anymore but it was so
                          obvious in that situation.

                          /bpj
                        • George Corley
                          ... This problem is by no means restricted to heritage speakers. Being the kind of person who can get reasonably accurate pronunciations very quickly and even
                          Message 12 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                            On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 4:25 PM, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:

                            > On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:44 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination
                            > > of having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                            > > crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very wrong
                            > > ideas.
                            >
                            > That latter is a major problem for most heritage speakers: Great
                            > pronunciation, poor grammar. If you visit the country and they think of you
                            > as a foreigner, you're fine: they'll just treat you like a non-speaker. But
                            > if you pronounce anything or say anything and you sound native, they're
                            > really puzzled (and sometimes upset) that you're not perfectly fluent. It's
                            > like, "You just introduced yourself and ordered food fine. What's wrong
                            > with you?" Makes a lot of heritage speakers feel ashamed of the knowledge
                            > they *do* have and try to hide it.


                            This problem is by no means restricted to heritage speakers. Being the
                            kind of person who can get reasonably accurate pronunciations very quickly
                            and even learn to say common phrases at fairly normal talking speeds,
                            people can easily overestimate the ability. Of course, most of my
                            non-English communication is in Chinese, so people know immediately from
                            other cues that I'm not a native (I am, of course, very white), so it
                            doesn't really get people too upset. I'm not sure if I can get my Spanish
                            fast enough to make someone think I'm a native -- maybe an experiment to
                            try, I certainly have an odd and unplaceable accent (not gringo so much as
                            just weirdly generic).
                          • Adam Walker
                            ... LOL. The one and only time I went to Europe I spent my first three days in German-speaking lands -- Day one in Germany and the next two in Austria. I
                            Message 13 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                              On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 4:52 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:

                              > One solution which I've sometimes used when it comes to
                              >>
                              > ordering food is to go to ethnic resturants where the staff
                              > can be expected not to speak perfect German themselves.
                              > They won't notice, care or have an attitude. I've eaten
                              > lots of souvlaki in Germany! :-)
                              >
                              >
                              LOL. The one and only time I went to Europe I spent my first three days in
                              German-speaking lands -- Day one in Germany and the next two in Austria. I
                              don't speak any German more than numbers and a few random words, but I
                              wanted to make a go as much as possible with my phrasebook (The only phrase
                              I remember is "Bitte, vo ist Pfeilgasse?" oh and "mit utan fizz"). By the
                              third day, my brain was fried. German is just one language that never
                              clicks in my brain. So when I happened upon a Chinese restaurant with a
                              menu in Chinese posted in the window I lept for joy, went inside and
                              confounded the poor folks by not understanding anything in German, but
                              being able to order whatever I wanted in Chinese. Inwardly, as I scarfed
                              my German-style Chinese food, I was rejoicing at the opportunity to speak a
                              sensible language. The next day I was in Budapest. (Hol van Vaci Utsa?)

                              Adam
                            • Adam Walker
                              You can achieve the same effect in phone conversations where they can t see that you re pigmentally challenged. It happened to me a couple of times. It was
                              Message 14 of 25 , Apr 20, 2013
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                                You can achieve the same effect in phone conversations where they can't see
                                that you're pigmentally challenged. It happened to me a couple of times.
                                It was quite fun. Stupid bits of vocabulary that any five-year-old should
                                know gave me away.

                                Adam


                                On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 4:55 PM, George Corley <gacorley@...> wrote:

                                > On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 4:25 PM, David Peterson <dedalvs@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > > On Apr 20, 2013, at 1:44 PM, BPJ <bpj@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > > Visiting Germany is terrible: the combination
                                > > > of having cerebral palsy, a perfect phonology and
                                > > > crappy grammar/vocabulary gives people very wrong
                                > > > ideas.
                                > >
                                > > That latter is a major problem for most heritage speakers: Great
                                > > pronunciation, poor grammar. If you visit the country and they think of
                                > you
                                > > as a foreigner, you're fine: they'll just treat you like a non-speaker.
                                > But
                                > > if you pronounce anything or say anything and you sound native, they're
                                > > really puzzled (and sometimes upset) that you're not perfectly fluent.
                                > It's
                                > > like, "You just introduced yourself and ordered food fine. What's wrong
                                > > with you?" Makes a lot of heritage speakers feel ashamed of the knowledge
                                > > they *do* have and try to hide it.
                                >
                                >
                                > This problem is by no means restricted to heritage speakers. Being the
                                > kind of person who can get reasonably accurate pronunciations very quickly
                                > and even learn to say common phrases at fairly normal talking speeds,
                                > people can easily overestimate the ability. Of course, most of my
                                > non-English communication is in Chinese, so people know immediately from
                                > other cues that I'm not a native (I am, of course, very white), so it
                                > doesn't really get people too upset. I'm not sure if I can get my Spanish
                                > fast enough to make someone think I'm a native -- maybe an experiment to
                                > try, I certainly have an odd and unplaceable accent (not gringo so much as
                                > just weirdly generic).
                                >
                              • Krista D. Casada
                                I get that kind of thing a lot because I who use a power wheelchair speak Spanish, and my parents who are often with me don t much. My parents think it s kind
                                Message 15 of 25 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                  I get that kind of thing a lot because I who use a power wheelchair speak Spanish, and my parents who are often with me don't much. My parents think it's kind of hilarious. The chair has really caused the most head-scratching among my Lao friends, though, where it has been a much huger problem as I've been learning.

                                  Krista C.
                                  ________________________________________
                                  From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf of BPJ [bpj@...]
                                  Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:52 PM
                                  To: CONLANG@...
                                  Subject: Re: Heritage language (was: Re: Congratulations to David Peterson on DEFIANCE!)


                                  Last time we were over someone got visibly upset that I
                                  who sat in a wheelchair could speak German but my wife
                                  who 'drove' couldn't. I have to put up with that
                                  particular kind of crap too! It's the same everywhere
                                  of course and I've gotten used to just ignore it to the
                                  point that I don't notice it anymore but it was so
                                  obvious in that situation.

                                  /bpj
                                • George Corley
                                  That gets into a whole other issue of how people view the disabled. I wonder how that perception would vary depending on what they recognized as your
                                  Message 16 of 25 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                    That gets into a whole other issue of how people view the disabled. I
                                    wonder how that perception would vary depending on what they recognized as
                                    your ethnicity, since they apparently (and horribly ignorantly) are
                                    equating physical disability with mental disability.


                                    On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Krista D. Casada <kcasada@...> wrote:

                                    > I get that kind of thing a lot because I who use a power wheelchair speak
                                    > Spanish, and my parents who are often with me don't much. My parents think
                                    > it's kind of hilarious. The chair has really caused the most
                                    > head-scratching among my Lao friends, though, where it has been a much
                                    > huger problem as I've been learning.
                                    >
                                    > Krista C.
                                    > ________________________________________
                                    > From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf
                                    > of BPJ [bpj@...]
                                    > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:52 PM
                                    > To: CONLANG@...
                                    > Subject: Re: Heritage language (was: Re: Congratulations to David Peterson
                                    > on DEFIANCE!)
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Last time we were over someone got visibly upset that I
                                    > who sat in a wheelchair could speak German but my wife
                                    > who 'drove' couldn't. I have to put up with that
                                    > particular kind of crap too! It's the same everywhere
                                    > of course and I've gotten used to just ignore it to the
                                    > point that I don't notice it anymore but it was so
                                    > obvious in that situation.
                                    >
                                    > /bpj
                                    >
                                  • George Corley
                                    ... That would be interesting. Frankly, I don t think my Chinese is really good enough to pass. I often say things that baffle Chinese friends, choose the
                                    Message 17 of 25 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                      On Sat, Apr 20, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Adam Walker <carraxan@...> wrote:

                                      > You can achieve the same effect in phone conversations where they can't see
                                      > that you're pigmentally challenged. It happened to me a couple of times.
                                      > It was quite fun. Stupid bits of vocabulary that any five-year-old should
                                      > know gave me away.
                                      >
                                      > Adam
                                      >

                                      That would be interesting. Frankly, I don't think my Chinese is really
                                      good enough to pass. I often say things that baffle Chinese friends,
                                      choose the wrong tones, or have unnatural intonation (due to concentrating
                                      on the lexical tones). Perhaps with some practice.
                                    • Krista D. Casada
                                      Well, one little Lao girl about seven checked me out the other day (I have light brown hair and am a very average Caucasian-looking sort) and asked her mother,
                                      Message 18 of 25 , Apr 22, 2013
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                                        Well, one little Lao girl about seven checked me out the other day (I have light brown hair and am a very average Caucasian-looking sort) and asked her mother, "Is SHE Lao?" So they are dealing as best they can, I think!

                                        Krista
                                        ________________________________________
                                        From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf of George Corley [gacorley@...]
                                        Sent: Monday, April 22, 2013 1:29 PM
                                        To: CONLANG@...
                                        Subject: Re: Heritage language (was: Re: Congratulations to David Peterson on DEFIANCE!)

                                        That gets into a whole other issue of how people view the disabled. I
                                        wonder how that perception would vary depending on what they recognized as
                                        your ethnicity, since they apparently (and horribly ignorantly) are
                                        equating physical disability with mental disability.


                                        On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Krista D. Casada <kcasada@...> wrote:

                                        > I get that kind of thing a lot because I who use a power wheelchair speak
                                        > Spanish, and my parents who are often with me don't much. My parents think
                                        > it's kind of hilarious. The chair has really caused the most
                                        > head-scratching among my Lao friends, though, where it has been a much
                                        > huger problem as I've been learning.
                                        >
                                        > Krista C.
                                        > ________________________________________
                                        > From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf
                                        > of BPJ [bpj@...]
                                        > Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:52 PM
                                        > To: CONLANG@...
                                        > Subject: Re: Heritage language (was: Re: Congratulations to David Peterson
                                        > on DEFIANCE!)
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Last time we were over someone got visibly upset that I
                                        > who sat in a wheelchair could speak German but my wife
                                        > who 'drove' couldn't. I have to put up with that
                                        > particular kind of crap too! It's the same everywhere
                                        > of course and I've gotten used to just ignore it to the
                                        > point that I don't notice it anymore but it was so
                                        > obvious in that situation.
                                        >
                                        > /bpj
                                        >
                                      • BPJ
                                        ... Not necessarily. Many have an attitude which I for lack of a better term call puerilizing -- acting and communicating in an adult-to-child manner, even
                                        Message 19 of 25 , Apr 22, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          2013-04-22 20:29, George Corley skrev:
                                          > That gets into a whole other issue of how people view the disabled. I
                                          > wonder how that perception would vary depending on what they recognized as
                                          > your ethnicity, since they apparently (and horribly ignorantly) are
                                          > equating physical disability with mental disability.

                                          Not necessarily. Many have an attitude which I for lack
                                          of a better term call "puerilizing" -- acting and
                                          communicating in an adult-to-child manner, even though
                                          I'm obviously in my forties and bearded, as opposed to
                                          talking to me as if I'm 'retarded'. People seem to
                                          assume that a person in a wheelchair needs to be
                                          taken care of/looked after. For whatever reason
                                          I'm not getting nearly as much of that when I walk on
                                          crutches. People also ask if they can help a lot more
                                          when I'm in the chair. It's also a cultural thing; I
                                          get a lot more offers for help in/by people from English-
                                          speaking and 'southern' countries than from (non-Brit)
                                          northern European countries. There is a lot of cultural
                                          variation in how they react when I decline help.
                                          Men in some countries apparently get disturbed that
                                          I'm 'looked after' by my wife. Some people get into a panic
                                          when I grab the crutches and rise from the chair. For
                                          some it's clearly a matter of not knowing how to adjust
                                          when I 'become an adult', or whatever barrier I'm
                                          breaking in their eyes.

                                          /bpj

                                          >
                                          >
                                          > On Mon, Apr 22, 2013 at 1:13 PM, Krista D. Casada <kcasada@...> wrote:
                                          >
                                          >> I get that kind of thing a lot because I who use a power wheelchair speak
                                          >> Spanish, and my parents who are often with me don't much. My parents think
                                          >> it's kind of hilarious.

                                          My wife is the one who gets upset. I just roll my eyes.

                                          >> The chair has really caused the most
                                          >> head-scratching among my Lao friends, though, where it has been a much
                                          >> huger problem as I've been learning.
                                          >>
                                          >> Krista C.
                                          >> ________________________________________
                                          >> From: Constructed Languages List [CONLANG@...] on behalf
                                          >> of BPJ [bpj@...]
                                          >> Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2013 4:52 PM
                                          >> To: CONLANG@...
                                          >> Subject: Re: Heritage language (was: Re: Congratulations to David Peterson
                                          >> on DEFIANCE!)
                                          >>
                                          >>
                                          >> Last time we were over someone got visibly upset that I
                                          >> who sat in a wheelchair could speak German but my wife
                                          >> who 'drove' couldn't. I have to put up with that
                                          >> particular kind of crap too! It's the same everywhere
                                          >> of course and I've gotten used to just ignore it to the
                                          >> point that I don't notice it anymore but it was so
                                          >> obvious in that situation.
                                          >>
                                          >> /bpj
                                          >>
                                          >
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