Re: Vowel Types
- I guess someone will (would?) point out that the distinction between
pairs like /a_^u/ and /a_^o_^u/ (in X-SAMPA symbols) is that a native
speaker would easily recognize a combination of existing vowels in his
dialected (shortened or not).
2013/4/4 Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...>:
> Someone could argue that an /o/ in a monosyllabic /iaou/ is just part
> of the path between the /a/ and the /u/ in the vowel space. How can we
> distinguish a syllable /ieEaOou/ from /iau/? From the "curvature" of
> its trajectory on the vowel space diagram?! But is really easy to know
> what is a straight line and a curve there? If I draw an irregular,
> non-analytical curve on a vowel space diagram, maybe I'll be
> representing an infinitephthong!
> Até mais!
> 2013/4/4 George Corley <gacorley@...>:
>> On Thu, Apr 4, 2013 at 6:01 PM, Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:
>>> --- On Thu, 4/4/13, Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:
>>> > Hallo conlangers!
>>> > On Thursday 04 April 2013 15:07:19 Eugene Oh wrote:
>>> > > Not in all languages - and not all four vowels are
>>> > present in all languages
>>> > > either
>>> > OK, in some languages it may have a tetraphthong, but the form
>>> > /mi'aou/ Leonardo gave, with a stress mark between the /i/ and
>>> > the /aou/, is definitely bisyllabic - stress marks are placed
>>> > *before* the stressed syllable, not *within* it according to
>>> > the IPA rules (though examples of the latter usage are indeed
>>> > not hard to find).
>>> Right. To my way of thinking, and I could well be wrong, triphthongs and
>>> tetraphthongs ought to have so many vowels, but only one syllable or one
>>> sound. It ought to be parallel to the diphthong, which has two vowels but
>>> one sound or one syllable.
>>> The classic example I can think of is French eau, which sounds like /o/.
>>> Three letters, one sound, one syllable. The example above certainly seems
>>> to be polysyllabic /mijaw/ or /mi_aw/.
>> No, French <eau> is a trigraph, not a triphthong. Polyphthongs are
>> multiple vowel _sounds_ in the nucleus of a single syllable. The
>> distinction is necessary for the same reason that we don't call English
>> <th> a consonant cluster.
- On 10 April 2013 13:28, Leonardo Castro <leolucas1980@...> wrote:
> [...]Yep, I'm aware of this phenomenon. There is even something I would call the
> > However, whether this analysis is valid for the sometimes appearing final
> > schwa of those French words like _propre_ is not something I'm ready to
> > decide on yet.
> A non-native French teacher of mine sometimes put a schwa even in the
> end of words that didn't have the final <e>: "jour"-> /juR@/.
"complaining schwa", which consists in adding a very elongated schwa at the
end of a sentence to signify "disagreement" (well, more like spoiled child
behaviour that is :P). Mostly used by children, a typical example would be
a spoiled brat complaining that he's hungry. Rather than simply shout _j'ai
faim !_ [ʒɛˈfɛ̃], he will probably say something like _j'ai faim
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!_ [ʒɛˈfɛ̃.əːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːːː], with the
stressed syllable being very strongly stressed :P .
Schwas tend to crop up in Spoken French in places where you don't expect
them. Hence my difficulty to treat them as underlying sounds that just wait
for the right environment to show up. I expect they mostly come out due to
euphony, to break difficult clusters, and sometimes to express discontent