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Re: Creating a Proto-language

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  • Garth Wallace
    On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews ... Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
    Message 1 of 28 , Mar 22, 2013
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      On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
      <goldyemoran@...> wrote:
      > I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
      > resort.


      Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
      http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~reng/BrlIPA.html

      It's about IPA Braille in particular, and IPA accessibility in
      general. I can't personally vouch for it, but it seems promising.
    • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
      I ll look for that as well. I ll try audio first, and Braille as a last resort. ... From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On
      Message 2 of 28 , Mar 23, 2013
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        I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
        resort.

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
        Behalf Of DM
        Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 7:36 PM
        To: CONLANG@...
        Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language

        Deutscher not only wrote The Unfolding of Language (which is excellent),
        but Through the Language Glass, another excellent book that deals mostly
        with how language affects our view of the world, if it does this at all (a
        rehashing of Sapir-Whorf with an alternative theory presented). The section
        that sticks in my mind most is the analysis of languages that use an
        absolute-direction system for describing spatial relationships, rather than
        one based on current location of the speaker. I own both of his works and
        recommend them to everyone on the list.
      • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
        Thanks. Didn t even know we had IPa Braille. ... From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On Behalf Of Garth Wallace Sent: Friday,
        Message 3 of 28 , Mar 23, 2013
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          Thanks. Didn't even know we had IPa Braille.

          -----Original Message-----
          From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
          Behalf Of Garth Wallace
          Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:49 PM
          To: CONLANG@...
          Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language

          On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
          <goldyemoran@...> wrote:
          > I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
          > resort.


          Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
          http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~reng/BrlIPA.html

          It's about IPA Braille in particular, and IPA accessibility in
          general. I can't personally vouch for it, but it seems promising.
        • BPJ
          ... A terribly heretical thought: Provided that your ordinary Braille system has a notation for such computerish symbols as @ (commercial at), & (ampersand)
          Message 4 of 28 , Mar 24, 2013
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            On 2013-03-23 16:55, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
            > Thanks. Didn't even know we had IPa Braille.

            A terribly heretical thought:

            Provided that your ordinary Braille system has a
            notation for such 'computerish' symbols as @
            (commercial at), & (ampersand) and \ (backslash) you
            may be better served by a straight transliteration of
            CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA) into your ordinary Braille system
            since you then can use the 'same system' for writing
            IPA in Braille and when communicating with other
            conlangers.

            CXS is the system for transliterating IPA into ASCII
            which we used extensively on this mailing list before
            we could use Unicode, and still occasionally use e.g.
            when writing on a smartphone where it is hard to enter
            Unicode IPA. CXS is described at
            <http://www.theiling.de/ipa/>. (Look at
            <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII> if you don't know
            what ASCII is!)

            I hope all the tables on that CXS page are accessible
            to you. It has tables where each symbol is shown with
            the CXS symbol in the top row and the IPA symbol in the
            bottom row of a one-column, two-row table inside a cell
            of another table, which makes everything very clear for
            a sighted person but probably less so with a
            screenreader, I'm afraid.

            For the purpose of checking the accessibility of
            webpages I write myself I installed have a screen
            reader 'emulator' which gives a print approximation of
            how a screenreader would render a page, and it does not
            make the CXS page look promising!

            If you like I can write up, or rather have the computer
            write up, a list of all CXS symbols and their
            corresponding Unicode characters along with their
            Unicode character names and their phonetic description.
            It's not something I will have time to do right away
            but I have anyway planned to do something like that for
            a computer program I've been meaning to write.

            Ideally a screenreader would say "voiceless
            palatoalveolar fricative" when it sees an ʃ, or even
            synthesize the sound from the Unicode symbol, but I
            don't know if that could be set up. As you have
            probably seen the IPA Braille page Garth linked to has
            links to instructions for setting up screenreaders to
            handle Unicode IPA.

            In case you wonder I care about accessibility
            because I have cerebral palsy myself and one of my
            friends is color blind. That has heightened my
            awareness. I guess a lot of modern webpages are
            terrible from a screenreader point of view. They
            certainly are when it comes to navigate with the
            keyboard rather than a mouse!

            Regards,

            /bpj

            >
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
            > Behalf Of Garth Wallace
            > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:49 PM
            > To: CONLANG@...
            > Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language
            >
            > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
            > <goldyemoran@...> wrote:
            >> I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
            >> resort.
            >
            >
            > Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
            > http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~reng/BrlIPA.html
            >
            > It's about IPA Braille in particular, and IPA accessibility in
            > general. I can't personally vouch for it, but it seems promising.
            >
          • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
            Yes, terrible accessibility. I figured there was some connection. I know someone cerebral palsy talso. She s an online girl I went to school with. Please send
            Message 5 of 28 , Mar 24, 2013
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              Yes, terrible accessibility. I figured there was some connection. I know someone cerebral palsy talso. She's an online girl I went to school with. Please send me the file with phonetic descriptions, thanks. I have some webpages as favorites that are an IPa reference chart and a Sappa reference chart that mentions voiceless etc. Not sure if that shows up in print. This lady Sheri Wells's guide she wrote, links to it.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of BPJ
              Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:16 AM
              To: CONLANG@...
              Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language

              On 2013-03-23 16:55, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
              > Thanks. Didn't even know we had IPa Braille.

              A terribly heretical thought:

              Provided that your ordinary Braille system has a
              notation for such 'computerish' symbols as @
              (commercial at), & (ampersand) and \ (backslash) you
              may be better served by a straight transliteration of
              CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA) into your ordinary Braille system
              since you then can use the 'same system' for writing
              IPA in Braille and when communicating with other
              conlangers.

              CXS is the system for transliterating IPA into ASCII
              which we used extensively on this mailing list before
              we could use Unicode, and still occasionally use e.g.
              when writing on a smartphone where it is hard to enter
              Unicode IPA. CXS is described at
              <http://www.theiling.de/ipa/>. (Look at
              <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII> if you don't know
              what ASCII is!)

              I hope all the tables on that CXS page are accessible
              to you. It has tables where each symbol is shown with
              the CXS symbol in the top row and the IPA symbol in the
              bottom row of a one-column, two-row table inside a cell
              of another table, which makes everything very clear for
              a sighted person but probably less so with a
              screenreader, I'm afraid.

              For the purpose of checking the accessibility of
              webpages I write myself I installed have a screen
              reader 'emulator' which gives a print approximation of
              how a screenreader would render a page, and it does not
              make the CXS page look promising!

              If you like I can write up, or rather have the computer
              write up, a list of all CXS symbols and their
              corresponding Unicode characters along with their
              Unicode character names and their phonetic description.
              It's not something I will have time to do right away
              but I have anyway planned to do something like that for
              a computer program I've been meaning to write.

              Ideally a screenreader would say "voiceless
              palatoalveolar fricative" when it sees an ʃ, or even
              synthesize the sound from the Unicode symbol, but I
              don't know if that could be set up. As you have
              probably seen the IPA Braille page Garth linked to has
              links to instructions for setting up screenreaders to
              handle Unicode IPA.

              In case you wonder I care about accessibility
              because I have cerebral palsy myself and one of my
              friends is color blind. That has heightened my
              awareness. I guess a lot of modern webpages are
              terrible from a screenreader point of view. They
              certainly are when it comes to navigate with the
              keyboard rather than a mouse!

              Regards,

              /bpj

              >
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
              > Behalf Of Garth Wallace
              > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:49 PM
              > To: CONLANG@...
              > Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language
              >
              > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
              > <goldyemoran@...> wrote:
              >> I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
              >> resort.
              >
              >
              > Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
              > http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~reng/BrlIPA.html
              >
              > It's about IPA Braille in particular, and IPA accessibility in
              > general. I can't personally vouch for it, but it seems promising.
              >
            • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
              Thanks for the help. ... From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU] On Behalf Of BPJ Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:16 AM To:
              Message 6 of 28 , Mar 24, 2013
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks for the help.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of BPJ
                Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2013 2:16 AM
                To: CONLANG@...
                Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language

                On 2013-03-23 16:55, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews wrote:
                > Thanks. Didn't even know we had IPa Braille.

                A terribly heretical thought:

                Provided that your ordinary Braille system has a
                notation for such 'computerish' symbols as @
                (commercial at), & (ampersand) and \ (backslash) you
                may be better served by a straight transliteration of
                CXS (Conlang X-SAMPA) into your ordinary Braille system
                since you then can use the 'same system' for writing
                IPA in Braille and when communicating with other
                conlangers.

                CXS is the system for transliterating IPA into ASCII
                which we used extensively on this mailing list before
                we could use Unicode, and still occasionally use e.g.
                when writing on a smartphone where it is hard to enter
                Unicode IPA. CXS is described at
                <http://www.theiling.de/ipa/>. (Look at
                <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASCII> if you don't know
                what ASCII is!)

                I hope all the tables on that CXS page are accessible
                to you. It has tables where each symbol is shown with
                the CXS symbol in the top row and the IPA symbol in the
                bottom row of a one-column, two-row table inside a cell
                of another table, which makes everything very clear for
                a sighted person but probably less so with a
                screenreader, I'm afraid.

                For the purpose of checking the accessibility of
                webpages I write myself I installed have a screen
                reader 'emulator' which gives a print approximation of
                how a screenreader would render a page, and it does not
                make the CXS page look promising!

                If you like I can write up, or rather have the computer
                write up, a list of all CXS symbols and their
                corresponding Unicode characters along with their
                Unicode character names and their phonetic description.
                It's not something I will have time to do right away
                but I have anyway planned to do something like that for
                a computer program I've been meaning to write.

                Ideally a screenreader would say "voiceless
                palatoalveolar fricative" when it sees an ʃ, or even
                synthesize the sound from the Unicode symbol, but I
                don't know if that could be set up. As you have
                probably seen the IPA Braille page Garth linked to has
                links to instructions for setting up screenreaders to
                handle Unicode IPA.

                In case you wonder I care about accessibility
                because I have cerebral palsy myself and one of my
                friends is color blind. That has heightened my
                awareness. I guess a lot of modern webpages are
                terrible from a screenreader point of view. They
                certainly are when it comes to navigate with the
                keyboard rather than a mouse!

                Regards,

                /bpj

                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
                > Behalf Of Garth Wallace
                > Sent: Friday, March 22, 2013 10:49 PM
                > To: CONLANG@...
                > Subject: Re: Creating a Proto-language
                >
                > On Sat, Mar 23, 2013 at 12:15 AM, Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
                > <goldyemoran@...> wrote:
                >> I'll look for that as well. I'll try audio first, and Braille as a last
                >> resort.
                >
                >
                > Speaking of braille, you might find this link handy:
                > http://www.ruf.rice.edu/~reng/BrlIPA.html
                >
                > It's about IPA Braille in particular, and IPA accessibility in
                > general. I can't personally vouch for it, but it seems promising.
                >
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