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Re: OT YAEPT -omp, -onk

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  • Sai
    And: I suck at describing phonology, so here s a recording: http://saizai.com/and_words.m4a Enjoy, Sai
    Message 1 of 47 , Feb 13, 2013
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      And:

      I suck at describing phonology, so here's a recording:
      http://saizai.com/and_words.m4a

      Enjoy,
      Sai
    • BPJ
      I might have become a field linguist had it not been for my medical condition. Ultimately I ended up outside academia pursuing lx in my free time. I ve
      Message 47 of 47 , Feb 15, 2013
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        I might have become a field linguist had it not been for my medical
        condition. Ultimately I ended up outside academia pursuing lx in my free
        time. I've somewhat compensated by developing a keen ear for everyday
        phonetics -- boy is there a difference between how ppl speak and how they
        think they speak! -- and by being engaged in dialect
        preservation/documentation/education on the home turf which may be a worthy
        form of moribund language work; just to make ppl take pride in their
        heritage rather than seeing it as a bastardized form of the standard
        language. I just wish there were more kids using dialect grammar and not
        just phone* ics. Being a conlanger has in fact better equipped me to bring
        across a better understanding of the relation between dialect and standard.
        Describing the standard as a conlang may not be 100% accurate but paves the
        way for looking at things from another angle.

        /bpj

        Den onsdagen den 13:e februari 2013 skrev Dirk Elzinga:

        > I agree with what Roger said about field work; there's nothing like it. Of
        > course, I don't travel to primitive and exotic locales to do field work
        > (unless you consider small towns in the Great Basin and Southeastern Utah
        > to be either, or both). But the feeling of cultural dislocation is very
        > strong on Indian reservations. That coupled with a traditional mistrust
        > (and even active dislike) of white people makes for some tense moments when
        > being introduced into a community. [1]
        >
        > It is true that, of the conlangers that I've met, most have been interested
        > in field work. I wonder, though, if it isn't really Field Work they're
        > interested in so much as finding out new and unusual things about language.
        > Since the bulk of the theoretical work in linguistics that I've seen is
        > confined to well known and well documented languages, it may be that
        > conlangers, in their search for the weird and exotic, are naturally drawn
        > to reference grammars and other products of field work.
        >
        > Dirk
        >
        > [1] I attended a meeting of the cultural preservation committee for a tribe
        > in which one of the senior members took my presence as an opportunity to
        > berate me, as a representative of White People Everywhere, for the losses
        > and depredations suffered by his people. Most of the other committee
        > members were embarrassed--most, but not all. I ended up not getting a whole
        > lot done there, but I did score some pity points and made a couple of good
        > friends in the community.
        >
        >
        >
        > On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:59 AM, Roger Mills <romiltz@...> wrote:
        >
        > > --- On Tue, 2/12/13, And Rosta <and.rosta@...> wrote:
        > > Sai, On 12/02/2013 02:27:
        > > > I'm not a field linguist so I have no idea what the perceptual
        > > > distribution is,
        > >
        > > I'm not a field linguist either. I'm a sworn adherent of armchair
        > > linguistics. I do do a bit of field linguistics, but only what can be
        > done
        > > from the comfort of my own armchair (or classroom). [Discussion topic
        > for a
        > > new thread: Among professional linguisticians, armchair linguists are
        > many
        > > and field linguists are few; among conlangers interested in careers or
        > > advanced academic studyin linguistics, would-be field linguists are many
        > > and would-be armchair linguists are few. How come?]
        > >
        > > Sai, On 12/02/2013 02:27:
        > > > I'm not a field linguist so I have no idea what the perceptual
        > > > distribution is,
        > >
        > > I'm
        > > not a field linguist either. I'm a sworn adherent of armchair
        > > linguistics. I do do a bit of field linguistics, but only what can be
        > > done from the comfort of my own armchair (or classroom).
        > > RM-- HaHa. I
        > > began as a field linguist but in my ultimate lack of an academic
        > > appointment have perforce become an armchair linguist......
        > >
        > >
        > > [Discussion
        > > topic for a new thread: Among professional linguisticians, armchair
        > > linguists are many and field linguists are few; among conlangers
        > > interested in careers or advanced academic study in linguistics,
        > > would-be field linguists are many and would-be armchair linguists are
        > > few. How come?]
        > > ============================================================
        > >
        > > OK--I'll start it here: Not sure that's
        > > entirely accurate. Most academic training in linguistics (as well as
        > > Anthropology) will include field work (if only in a "Field Methods"
        > > course, where some us catch the bug-- that course shifted my whole
        > > academic/intellectual orientation from Romance to Malay-Polynesian!).
        > > OTOH most conlangers AFAICT are armchair linguists-- although one could
        > > say that inventing a language has certain elements of field linguistics
        > >
        > > Field
        > > work is truly fascinating-- you're not only encountering a whole new
        > > language but often a new culture as well (same in a lot of conlanging).
        > > It can be rather uncomfortable-- primitive surroundings, weird foods,
        > > difficulties relating to the people, or the converse, going a bit
        > > "native" ;-) -- and sometimes frustrating when you find variation even
        > > with a single small group. Or working with a moribund language, whose
        > > speakers are few and elderly, maybe lacking some teeth and having memory
        > > problems....
        > >
        > > Even the SILers, with their religious motivation, would probably confess
        > > to some occasional discomfort in their field work.
        > >
        > > You
        > > need a firm grounding in phonetics (even for English! as we discover in
        > > these YAEPT threads), and some kind of
        > > theoretical underpinning to make sense of the phonology and grammar
        > you're
        > > discovering. Such field work has formed the basis of many a doctoral
        > > dissertation!! (Unless you're Chomsky & Co., who apparently saw no
        > > reason to work on anything other than English (so I'm told...))
        > >
        > > My
        > > own field work was done in comfortable surroundings, but if I'd had
        > > time, could well have involved some serious trekking into the wilds....
        > > At one point early on I thought (with my background in Spanish) that it
        > > might be interesting to work on S.American native languages, but an
        > > audited Anthro. course under N.Y.Chagnon (of Yanomamo fame) disabused me
        > > of that idea.
        > >
        > > Since becoming an armchair/non-affiliated
        > > linguist, I've discovered another problem: something I'd spent several
        > > years writing,
        > > and considered worth publishing, was rejected on the basis that it was
        > > based only on book research, not on actual field work. Bah humbug. I
        > > could have pointed out that one of the early stars in the MP field,
        > > Renward Brandstetter, never did field work AFAIK, yet managed to do
        > > important work from published sources....(Like Einstein, he clerked in
        > > some Swiss govt. office.)
        > >
        > > So let's see what sort of di
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