Re: So, about Ithkuil...
- On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 2:44 AM, John Q <Jquijada21@...> wrote:
> >> It took me about fifteen minutes to piece together the above Ithkuilthe raw material that makes one advanced or not. Anybody can be trained to
> >> word after first thinking about the "scene" I wanted to describe. A
> >> "100% fluent" speaker (e.g., the hypothetical sports announcer)
> >> would, in theory, be able to come up with such a word ON THE SPOT.
> >> It is THAT level of fluency which Ithkuil potentially allows, and it
> >> is THAT level of fluency which I now believe is unattainable.
> >It saddens me a bit to read this. Do you have solid evidence for your
> >belief or is it more of an intuitive guess? Surely, you understand the
> >complexity of Ithkuil the best, but I don't want to easily give up my
> >hopes that "THAT level of fluency" is attainable. Why do you think it's
> Admittedly an intuitive guess. I doubt such a level of fluency is
> possible because, being aware of how much mental effort I have to make
> during the fifteen or so minutes to decompose the semantic elements of a
> scene like my football example and then tediously map them one by one to
> the overt components of Ithkuil morphology (including choosing which
> lexical roots to use, which stems from those roots, which derivation all
> affixes to employ, and then determine which of the myriad declensions of
> the 22 mandatory morphological categories for each verb is appropriate,
> then string it all together morpho-syntactically into a word or phrase or
> sentence, well...to expect a human being to be able to do that on the fly
> in a couple of seconds like the hypothetical sports announcer in my example
> seems like a super-human feat to me. Perhaps, as Stevo says, an advanced
> human like a trained psychoneticist perhaps could do it. ;-)
> I don't think a trained psychoneticist would be an advanced human. It's
- I just tried to construct my first Ithkuil sentence ever.
"I love you."
First, I picked the root -Ž- ‘LOVE/AFFECTION/EMOTIONAL BOND’. I chose
the stative function and stem 1 of pattern 1 because this seems to give
the most neutral sense of the verb.
The stem then is: a- + -ž- -> až-
The mood is factual and the illocution assertive, which would give -wë-,
but it can be omitted here.
Apparently, verbs are supposed to have case, too, but I cannot see how
or which one. Section 5.2 is supposed to explain this, but I can't seem
to find the actual explanation. Therefore, I just picked the oblique
For the Ca slot I picked the -l affix from the huge table (one of the
two monster tables, the other one being Table 11 for the Cv infixes).
The word should have penultimate stress (informal designation) and
falling tone (processual version).
Next, the "I". The root here is -t-, and the case should be the
affective case, which has the value -i-, thus "ti".
As for "you", the root I think is -k-. Using the oblique case, it
(I know the two "pronouns" can be turned into one, but I'm already
confused enough to try this :) )
So now my guess for the final sentence is:
Ažal ti ka.
(And just for practice, I think "ažal" would be "ažawël" if I hadn't
elided the mood/illocution infix)
The sentence is extremely short, but it took me quite long (and who
knows how many mistakes I made). Of course I have not memorized anything
yet, and I'm still getting accustomed to the layout of the grammar page,
so maneuvering is still slow and cumbersome.
The semantics of the different stem patterns are still a bit mysterious
to me. It seems there is no universal rule by which to infer the meaning
of any root + any stem. Rather, there are a gazillion patterns and each
root yields stems according to one of those patterns (e.g. the root for
SQUIRREL follows the same pattern as the one for MAMMAL, and CURIOSITY
follows EXPERIENCE). So it's not *quite* as random as it first appeared,
but it still requires a huge amount of (tedious?) memorization. I cannot
make a predication at this point as to how difficult it will be.
I have now ordered the print version of the grammar and hope it will
arrive in around 10 days. Can't wait!
mu'o mi'e la selpa'i