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Re: Medium-length translation text?

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  • Cosman246
    I vote for the Communist Manifesto -Yash Tulsyan (yasht, cosman246) Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 30, 2012
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      I vote for the Communist Manifesto

      -Yash Tulsyan (yasht, cosman246)
      "Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this
      would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to
      enslave them." --Dune

      "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal" -Emma Goldman


      On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Puey McCleary <pueymccleary@...>wrote:

      > I vote for a chapter from "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." Chapter 11, "The
      > Wonderful City of Oz," has some fun dialogue.
      >
    • Puey McCleary
      Ian mentioned that he was looking for something with a wide variety of grammatical features, such as dialogue, so I’m thinking a short work of narrative
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 30, 2012
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        Ian mentioned that he was looking for something with a wide variety of
        grammatical features, such as dialogue, so I’m thinking a short work of
        narrative prose (with some dialogue) may be suitable. I am not at all
        certain that the vocabulary of “The Communist Manifesto” would be a good
        match for a test-translation, no more so than the Magna Carta or the
        Declaration of Independence.

        How about a short fairy tale? Something from the Brothers Grimm or Hans
        Christian Andersen would have a more general vocabulary but still exhibit a
        variety of grammatical features.
      • Ian Spolarich
        ... I have looked into a few of the Grimm fairy tales before, so I looked into some of Andersen s and found one that is very well suited to my purposes, The
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 30, 2012
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          > How about a short fairy tale? Something from the Brothers Grimm or Hans
          > Christian Andersen would have a more general vocabulary but still exhibit a
          > variety of grammatical features.


          I have looked into a few of the Grimm fairy tales before, so I looked into
          some of Andersen's and found one that is very well suited to my purposes,
          "The Butterfly." It actually has a very surprising number of grammatical
          features. Unfortunately, I have to finish revising the verbal system of
          Adranik before I can translate very much. Thanks all the same for the
          suggestions!

          -Karl
        • Gary Shannon
          Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such as Alice in Wonderland . There are lots of books of fables and fairy tales on Gutenberg
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 30, 2012
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            Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
            as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
            tales on Gutenberg as well.

            --gary

            On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:
            > My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
            > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited
            > for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult. Does anyone know
            > of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither too advanced
            > nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical features, such
            > as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different
            > moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
            > advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that makes
            > sense.
            >
            > Thanks!
            >
            > -Karl
          • Roger Mills
            There s always The North Wind and the Sun , the IPA test case....One version is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun ... From: Ian
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 30, 2012
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              There's always "The North Wind and the Sun", the IPA test case....One version is here:
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun

              --- On Sun, 12/30/12, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

              From: Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...>
              Subject: Medium-length translation text?
              To: CONLANG@...
              Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 8:43 PM

              My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
              construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited
              for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult. Does anyone know
              of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither too advanced
              nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical features, such
              as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different
              moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
              advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that makes
              sense.

              Thanks!

              -Karl
            • Ralph DeCarli
              On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:43:55 -0600 Ian Spolarich wrote: How about A&P by John Updike http://www.tiger-town.com/whatnot/updike/ Ralph ...
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 31, 2012
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                On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:43:55 -0600
                Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

                How about A&P by John Updike

                http://www.tiger-town.com/whatnot/updike/

                Ralph

                > My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
                > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really
                > well-suited for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too
                > difficult. Does anyone know of a good source for moderate-length
                > texts that are neither too advanced nor too simple (i.e., the text
                > incorporates many grammatical features, such as different tenses
                > or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different moods or
                > voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
                > advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that
                > makes sense.
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > -Karl


                --
                omnivore@... ==> Ralph L. De Carli

                Have you heard of the new post-neo-modern art style?
                They haven't decided what it looks like yet.
              • Jim Henry
                ... Alice in Wonderland may be light reading, but with all the wordplay and logic-play, it s probably harder to translate than many other children s books.
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 31, 2012
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                  On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:
                  > Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
                  > as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
                  > tales on Gutenberg as well.

                  "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                  and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                  children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                  But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                  hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.

                  --
                  Jim Henry
                  http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                  http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                • Gary Shannon
                  ... file:///C:/Users/Gary%20Shannon/Documents/Web/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html --gary
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 31, 2012
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                    On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:

                    > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:
                    > > Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
                    > > as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
                    > > tales on Gutenberg as well.
                    >
                    > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                    > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                    > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                    > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                    > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                    >
                    > The start here:
                    file:///C:/Users/Gary%20Shannon/Documents/Web/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html

                    --gary
                  • Gary Shannon
                    ... http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html --gary
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 31, 2012
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                      On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:

                      >
                      >
                      > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                      > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                      > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                      > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                      > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                      >
                      > OOPS! That link was supposed to be:
                      http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html

                      --gary
                    • MorphemeAddict
                      ... Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be somewhat
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 31, 2012
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                        On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:

                        > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                        > > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                        > > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                        > > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                        > > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                        > >
                        > > OOPS! That link was supposed to be:
                        > http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html
                        >
                        > --gary
                        >
                        Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                        headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                        somewhat tedious to remove them.

                        stevo
                      • Padraic Brown
                        ... The best suggestions have already been proposed: Aesop, Grimm, Anderson, McGuffey (and any other similar reader series -- there were quite a few of them!).
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
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                          --- On Sun, 12/30/12, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

                          > My conlang Adranik really needs to be
                          > practiced and is beyond the
                          > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really
                          > well-suited
                          > for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult.
                          > Does anyone know
                          > of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither
                          > too advanced
                          > nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical
                          > features, such
                          > as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue,
                          > different
                          > moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test
                          > out the more
                          > advanced functions of the language in an extended context,
                          > if that makes sense.

                          The best suggestions have already been proposed: Aesop, Grimm, Anderson,
                          McGuffey (and any other similar reader series -- there were quite a few
                          of them!).

                          I'd also propose the merry adventures of Robin Hood. In general, while
                          there is long tale to be told, it is broken down into rather shorter
                          chapters that are structured like individual tales. While I love Pyle's
                          retelling, his prose and diction might be considerably too dense and
                          deliberately archaic for what you're trying to do. However, I've recently
                          come across Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling -- clean and simple (i.e.,
                          deliberately modernising) prose, prose and diction suitable for a newish
                          conlang seeking to flex its muscles, and it's a delightful read in its own
                          right. While any given chapter is longer than even the longest of Aesop
                          stories, they tend to be much shorter than a full Grimm tale.

                          I recently went through a binge of translating into and creating original
                          stories for Avantimannish (Germanic conlang in the World), and Aesop was
                          definitely the first go-to for shortish tales. If you'd be interested in a
                          longer traditional tale, without going to the standards, I'd be happy to
                          lend you "Blackwolf, Red Robin Hood and the Three Pigs". It would be
                          interesting to see what a different language and culture does with such a
                          story!

                          > Thanks!
                          >
                          > -Karl

                          Padraic
                        • Gary Shannon
                          ... CTRL-A to select the whole web page. CTRL-C to copy it Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to paste. Since the plain-text
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
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                            On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:37 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:

                            >
                            > >
                            > Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                            > headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                            > somewhat tedious to remove them.
                            >
                            > stevo
                            >

                            CTRL-A to select the whole web page.
                            CTRL-C to copy it
                            Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to paste.
                            Since the plain-text editor can't handle pictures it just throws them away.

                            It takes less than 30 seconds and you get exactly what you wanted.

                            --gary
                          • MorphemeAddict
                            ... Excellent. Thanks. stevo
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
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                              On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:

                              > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:37 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...>
                              > wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > >
                              > > Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                              > > headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                              > > somewhat tedious to remove them.
                              > >
                              > > stevo
                              > >
                              >
                              > CTRL-A to select the whole web page.
                              > CTRL-C to copy it
                              > Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to
                              > paste.
                              > Since the plain-text editor can't handle pictures it just throws them away.
                              >
                              > It takes less than 30 seconds and you get exactly what you wanted.
                              >

                              Excellent. Thanks.

                              stevo

                              >
                              > --gary
                              >
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