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Medium-length translation text?

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  • Ian Spolarich
    My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited for Biblical
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 30 5:43 PM
      My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
      construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited
      for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult. Does anyone know
      of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither too advanced
      nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical features, such
      as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different
      moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
      advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that makes
      sense.

      Thanks!

      -Karl
    • Puey McCleary
      I vote for a chapter from The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. Chapter 11, The Wonderful City of Oz, has some fun dialogue.
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 30 5:58 PM
        I vote for a chapter from "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." Chapter 11, "The
        Wonderful City of Oz," has some fun dialogue.
      • Cosman246
        I vote for the Communist Manifesto -Yash Tulsyan (yasht, cosman246) Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 30 6:00 PM
          I vote for the Communist Manifesto

          -Yash Tulsyan (yasht, cosman246)
          "Once men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this
          would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to
          enslave them." --Dune

          "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal" -Emma Goldman


          On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:58 PM, Puey McCleary <pueymccleary@...>wrote:

          > I vote for a chapter from "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz." Chapter 11, "The
          > Wonderful City of Oz," has some fun dialogue.
          >
        • Puey McCleary
          Ian mentioned that he was looking for something with a wide variety of grammatical features, such as dialogue, so I’m thinking a short work of narrative
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 30 6:16 PM
            Ian mentioned that he was looking for something with a wide variety of
            grammatical features, such as dialogue, so I’m thinking a short work of
            narrative prose (with some dialogue) may be suitable. I am not at all
            certain that the vocabulary of “The Communist Manifesto” would be a good
            match for a test-translation, no more so than the Magna Carta or the
            Declaration of Independence.

            How about a short fairy tale? Something from the Brothers Grimm or Hans
            Christian Andersen would have a more general vocabulary but still exhibit a
            variety of grammatical features.
          • Ian Spolarich
            ... I have looked into a few of the Grimm fairy tales before, so I looked into some of Andersen s and found one that is very well suited to my purposes, The
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 30 6:43 PM
              > How about a short fairy tale? Something from the Brothers Grimm or Hans
              > Christian Andersen would have a more general vocabulary but still exhibit a
              > variety of grammatical features.


              I have looked into a few of the Grimm fairy tales before, so I looked into
              some of Andersen's and found one that is very well suited to my purposes,
              "The Butterfly." It actually has a very surprising number of grammatical
              features. Unfortunately, I have to finish revising the verbal system of
              Adranik before I can translate very much. Thanks all the same for the
              suggestions!

              -Karl
            • Gary Shannon
              Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such as Alice in Wonderland . There are lots of books of fables and fairy tales on Gutenberg
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 30 7:02 PM
                Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
                as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
                tales on Gutenberg as well.

                --gary

                On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 5:43 PM, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:
                > My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
                > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited
                > for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult. Does anyone know
                > of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither too advanced
                > nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical features, such
                > as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different
                > moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
                > advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that makes
                > sense.
                >
                > Thanks!
                >
                > -Karl
              • Roger Mills
                There s always The North Wind and the Sun , the IPA test case....One version is here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun ... From: Ian
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 30 7:42 PM
                  There's always "The North Wind and the Sun", the IPA test case....One version is here:
                  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_North_Wind_and_the_Sun

                  --- On Sun, 12/30/12, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

                  From: Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...>
                  Subject: Medium-length translation text?
                  To: CONLANG@...
                  Date: Sunday, December 30, 2012, 8:43 PM

                  My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
                  construction of simple sentences. The language is not really well-suited
                  for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult. Does anyone know
                  of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither too advanced
                  nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical features, such
                  as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different
                  moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
                  advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that makes
                  sense.

                  Thanks!

                  -Karl
                • Ralph DeCarli
                  On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:43:55 -0600 Ian Spolarich wrote: How about A&P by John Updike http://www.tiger-town.com/whatnot/updike/ Ralph ...
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 31 5:49 PM
                    On Sun, 30 Dec 2012 19:43:55 -0600
                    Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

                    How about A&P by John Updike

                    http://www.tiger-town.com/whatnot/updike/

                    Ralph

                    > My conlang Adranik really needs to be practiced and is beyond the
                    > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really
                    > well-suited for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too
                    > difficult. Does anyone know of a good source for moderate-length
                    > texts that are neither too advanced nor too simple (i.e., the text
                    > incorporates many grammatical features, such as different tenses
                    > or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue, different moods or
                    > voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test out the more
                    > advanced functions of the language in an extended context, if that
                    > makes sense.
                    >
                    > Thanks!
                    >
                    > -Karl


                    --
                    omnivore@... ==> Ralph L. De Carli

                    Have you heard of the new post-neo-modern art style?
                    They haven't decided what it looks like yet.
                  • Jim Henry
                    ... Alice in Wonderland may be light reading, but with all the wordplay and logic-play, it s probably harder to translate than many other children s books.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 31 7:34 PM
                      On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:
                      > Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
                      > as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
                      > tales on Gutenberg as well.

                      "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                      and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                      children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                      But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                      hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.

                      --
                      Jim Henry
                      http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/
                      http://www.jimhenrymedicaltrust.org
                    • Gary Shannon
                      ... file:///C:/Users/Gary%20Shannon/Documents/Web/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html --gary
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 31 8:03 PM
                        On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:

                        > On Sun, Dec 30, 2012 at 10:02 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:
                        > > Go to project Gutenberg and look at kids books, or light reading such
                        > > as "Alice in Wonderland". There are lots of books of fables and fairy
                        > > tales on Gutenberg as well.
                        >
                        > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                        > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                        > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                        > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                        > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                        >
                        > The start here:
                        file:///C:/Users/Gary%20Shannon/Documents/Web/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html

                        --gary
                      • Gary Shannon
                        ... http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html --gary
                        Message 11 of 15 , Dec 31 8:04 PM
                          On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                          > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                          > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                          > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                          > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                          >
                          > OOPS! That link was supposed to be:
                          http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html

                          --gary
                        • MorphemeAddict
                          ... Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be somewhat
                          Message 12 of 15 , Dec 31 11:37 PM
                            On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:04 PM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:

                            > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 7:34 PM, Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > "Alice in Wonderland" may be light reading, but with all the wordplay
                            > > and logic-play, it's probably harder to translate than many other
                            > > children's books. That's not to say you shouldn't try, of course.
                            > > But it might not be the best place to start with a newish conlang that
                            > > hasn't been tested on simpler texts yet.
                            > >
                            > > OOPS! That link was supposed to be:
                            > http://fiziwig.com/conlang/resources/mcguffey_one.html
                            >
                            > --gary
                            >
                            Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                            headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                            somewhat tedious to remove them.

                            stevo
                          • Padraic Brown
                            ... The best suggestions have already been proposed: Aesop, Grimm, Anderson, McGuffey (and any other similar reader series -- there were quite a few of them!).
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
                              --- On Sun, 12/30/12, Ian Spolarich <mouton9113@...> wrote:

                              > My conlang Adranik really needs to be
                              > practiced and is beyond the
                              > construction of simple sentences. The language is not really
                              > well-suited
                              > for Biblical translations, and poetry seems too difficult.
                              > Does anyone know
                              > of a good source for moderate-length texts that are neither
                              > too advanced
                              > nor too simple (i.e., the text incorporates many grammatical
                              > features, such
                              > as different tenses or aspects, adverbs, quotes or dialogue,
                              > different
                              > moods or voices, etc. etc.)? I'd really just like to test
                              > out the more
                              > advanced functions of the language in an extended context,
                              > if that makes sense.

                              The best suggestions have already been proposed: Aesop, Grimm, Anderson,
                              McGuffey (and any other similar reader series -- there were quite a few
                              of them!).

                              I'd also propose the merry adventures of Robin Hood. In general, while
                              there is long tale to be told, it is broken down into rather shorter
                              chapters that are structured like individual tales. While I love Pyle's
                              retelling, his prose and diction might be considerably too dense and
                              deliberately archaic for what you're trying to do. However, I've recently
                              come across Roger Lancelyn Green's retelling -- clean and simple (i.e.,
                              deliberately modernising) prose, prose and diction suitable for a newish
                              conlang seeking to flex its muscles, and it's a delightful read in its own
                              right. While any given chapter is longer than even the longest of Aesop
                              stories, they tend to be much shorter than a full Grimm tale.

                              I recently went through a binge of translating into and creating original
                              stories for Avantimannish (Germanic conlang in the World), and Aesop was
                              definitely the first go-to for shortish tales. If you'd be interested in a
                              longer traditional tale, without going to the standards, I'd be happy to
                              lend you "Blackwolf, Red Robin Hood and the Three Pigs". It would be
                              interesting to see what a different language and culture does with such a
                              story!

                              > Thanks!
                              >
                              > -Karl

                              Padraic
                            • Gary Shannon
                              ... CTRL-A to select the whole web page. CTRL-C to copy it Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to paste. Since the plain-text
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
                                On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:37 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...> wrote:

                                >
                                > >
                                > Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                                > headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                                > somewhat tedious to remove them.
                                >
                                > stevo
                                >

                                CTRL-A to select the whole web page.
                                CTRL-C to copy it
                                Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to paste.
                                Since the plain-text editor can't handle pictures it just throws them away.

                                It takes less than 30 seconds and you get exactly what you wanted.

                                --gary
                              • MorphemeAddict
                                ... Excellent. Thanks. stevo
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 1, 2013
                                  On Tue, Jan 1, 2013 at 11:37 AM, Gary Shannon <fiziwig@...> wrote:

                                  > On Mon, Dec 31, 2012 at 11:37 PM, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@...>
                                  > wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > > >
                                  > > Gary, do you have those sentences available without all the pictures and
                                  > > headings? For me they just get in the way, and there are enough to be
                                  > > somewhat tedious to remove them.
                                  > >
                                  > > stevo
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  > CTRL-A to select the whole web page.
                                  > CTRL-C to copy it
                                  > Open a simple plain-text editor like notepad or NoteTab and CTRL-V to
                                  > paste.
                                  > Since the plain-text editor can't handle pictures it just throws them away.
                                  >
                                  > It takes less than 30 seconds and you get exactly what you wanted.
                                  >

                                  Excellent. Thanks.

                                  stevo

                                  >
                                  > --gary
                                  >
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