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Language Academies for Your Conlang

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  • Anthony Miles
    Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam,
    Message 1 of 19 , Aug 26, 2012
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      Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does. I'm sure Ttuan has a board of three and an official lexicon!
    • Nicole Valicia Thompson-Andrews
      You mean, who creates the dictionary and lexicon, and who decides what words come out of the dictionary? I ll get back to you on that. I ll need that info for
      Message 2 of 19 , Aug 26, 2012
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        You mean, who creates the dictionary and lexicon, and who decides what words
        come out of the dictionary?
        I'll get back to you on that. I'll need that info for my worldbilding
        package anyway.
        Emerging poet
        Pen Name Mellissa Green
        Budding novelist
        tweet me



        GreenNovelist

        blog


        www.theworldofyemora.wordpress.com


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Anthony Miles" <mamercus88@...>
        To: <CONLANG@...>
        Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:24 AM
        Subject: Language Academies for Your Conlang


        Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question.
        I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam,
        perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only linguistic)
        imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does. I'm
        sure Ttuan has a board of three and an official lexicon!
      • George Corley
        The languages descended from Aeruyo (Which I m thinking now to make the proto-lang for two magical languages, now, rather than a magical language in itself),
        Message 3 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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          The languages descended from Aeruyo (Which I'm thinking now to make the
          proto-lang for two magical languages, now, rather than a magical language
          in itself), are regulated partly by the spirits that speak them natively,
          though not consciously. They simply change much more slowly than humans
          (if at all), and thus the need for spirits to understand the commands that
          the priests give them holds back language change a bit. Of course, the
          various preisthoods also have their own regulatory measures, since they
          control education of the language. The fact that these languages are only
          learned as second languages will also tend to make them more regulated.

          I haven't though about regulation in other languages. I'm thinking mostly
          there will be naturally-evolved standards upheld by literati in the major
          literate areas, rather than formal academies.
        • Fenhl
          ... The Wyuko started using an auxlang (Aayenurisi) in February 2011, which had been developed by a committee of 225 volunteering linguists, 105 of them
          Message 4 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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            On 2012-08-27 04:24, Anthony Miles <mamercus88@...> wrote:
            > […] who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does.
            The Wyuko started using an auxlang (Aayenurisi) in February 2011, which had been developed by a committee of 225 volunteering linguists, 105 of them telepaths, in the months leading up to the constitution. They designed the language with the goal of making it as useable as possible for both telepaths and non-telepaths, using morphemes from the three major existing languages (Wyunurisi, Batunurisi and Pruanurisi) on one hand, and a grammar and idioms that resemble those of the telepathic communication on the other. The committee does not actively regulate the languge anymore.

            My other, so-far unnamed conculture's people are aware of their fictional nature. So, yeah. No one in-world, strictly speaking, but in-universe, I'm the regulating entity.
          • Toms Deimonds Barvidis
            ... As for as I have given my thoughts to it, only two languages are strictly regulated in my conworld, those being Arazi and Beringian. Arazi is controlled by
            Message 5 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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              Citējot "Anthony Miles" <mamercus88@...>:
              > Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question.
              > I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam,
              > perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only linguistic) imperia
              >lism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does. I'm sure T
              >tuan has a board of three and an official lexicon!

              As for as I have given my thoughts to it, only two languages are strictly regulated in my conworld, those being Arazi
              and Beringian. Arazi is controlled by the Beldawr Arazi Metsi, loosely - Academy of the Ara Language, an
              institution of very ancient history, stemming from the late Asatic Empire of Aradór (22 century) some 1200 years
              before the "modern days" of the world (3500+), but it became influential in the 29 century, when the Arazi literature
              bloomed and Aradór had already become a sovereign state.

              Beringian language is regulated by a similar institution modeled after the Aras, called Beudaur Bereujoif [b2.dOR
              b@.R2Z.wEf] (yes, beudaur is a loanword). The Beudaur doesn't have such a long history, it was created in the 31
              century with the rise of Beringian nationalism.

              I believe the Coeric language aught to have a similar institution, while the language of Jūnan an-Murān is pretty
              much regulated by the priesthood and their sacred writings.

              ---
              Toms Deimonds Barvidis
            • taliesin the storyteller
              ... Taruven is defined by an Ashtadhyayi-like grammar[*] and dictionary that is very, very old, it s publishing pretty much defines the start of (official)
              Message 6 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                On 08/27/2012 06:24 AM, Anthony Miles wrote:
                > Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific
                > question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the
                > Siye-speakers (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic
                > (and only linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your
                > conlang, if anybody does. I'm sure Ttuan has a board of three and an
                > official lexicon!

                Taruven is defined by an Ashtadhyayi-like grammar[*] and dictionary that
                is very, very old, it's publishing pretty much defines the start of
                (official) history. If, in writing, you need to use words not found in
                the One, True, Dictionary[tm], you either publish your own dictionary,
                or use an already existing one, which describes the words in question,
                and prefix the text with the name of the extra dictionary or
                dictionaries. (Needless to say, dictionary-making is big business.
                Methods for finding a specific word in a specific dictionary as well.)
                Because of this, there is no language academy.

                [*] AI can communicate with people in Taruven. The AIs are pedants, so
                the grammar doesn't drift.


                t.
              • Charles W Brickner
                In Sefdaania Senjecas is not regulated. The time is too early after creation for there to be any need. All the Loquent Peoples use the same vocabulary and
                Message 7 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                  In Sefdaania Senjecas is not regulated. The time is too early after creation for there to be any need. All the Loquent Peoples use the same vocabulary and grammar, although some words are more pertinent to one People than to another. I have not yet worked on diachronic development, if indeed I ever will.

                  Charlie

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Miles
                  Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:24 AM
                  To: CONLANG@...
                  Subject: Language Academies for Your Conlang

                  Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does. I'm sure Ttuan has a board of three and an official lexicon!
                • Allison Swenson
                  I rather suspect there s something akin to L Académie française for my Tirina, along with the same criticisms of it for excessive conservatism. Standard
                  Message 8 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                    I rather suspect there's something akin to L'Académie française for my
                    Tirina, along with the same criticisms of it for excessive conservatism.
                    Standard Tirina involves a great deal of repetition (several pieces of
                    information are marked on verbs, nouns, and adjectives alike), which I
                    imagine would be simplified in commonly-spoken speech, so I can see
                    opposing movements for maintaining linguistic traditions or for accepting
                    the natural change of language.

                    On the other hand, there's an older language that Tirina was potentially
                    based in small part on (it's still very rough), a modern form of which is
                    still spoken by a second group. This language I can see being much freer in
                    terms of linguistic development, with no nosy organizations trying to tell
                    you how to speak your language. (or at least that's how they'd view it!)

                    --Allison

                    On Mon, Aug 27, 2012 at 8:43 AM, Charles W Brickner <
                    tepeyachill@...> wrote:

                    > In Sefdaania Senjecas is not regulated. The time is too early after
                    > creation for there to be any need. All the Loquent Peoples use the same
                    > vocabulary and grammar, although some words are more pertinent to one
                    > People than to another. I have not yet worked on diachronic development,
                    > if indeed I ever will.
                    >
                    > Charlie
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
                    > Behalf Of Anthony Miles
                    > Sent: Monday, August 27, 2012 12:24 AM
                    > To: CONLANG@...
                    > Subject: Language Academies for Your Conlang
                    >
                    > Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific
                    > question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers
                    > (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only
                    > linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if
                    > anybody does. I'm sure Ttuan has a board of three and an official lexicon!
                    >
                  • Adam Walker
                    Carrajina s timeline only exists up to the 1400 s so the whole idea of il Academi djal Limba Carrajina is an anachronism ATM. Iknow not if such shall later
                    Message 9 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                      Carrajina's timeline only exists up to the 1400's so the whole idea of il
                      Academi djal Limba Carrajina is an anachronism ATM. Iknow not if such
                      shall later constitute.

                      Adam
                    • David Brumbley
                      Hsassiens began as a command by an ancient (and fairly ill-tempered) immortal monarch s command. After conquering much of the continent, the Queen wanted all
                      Message 10 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                        Hsassiens began as a command by an ancient (and fairly ill-tempered)
                        immortal monarch's command. After conquering much of the continent,
                        the Queen wanted all of those beneath her rule to be reduced to a
                        common denominator that she could control in every way. There was no
                        particular group whose culture or language she respected above any
                        other (her own native language became something of a private code to
                        be used only with her own family and closest advisers) and so she
                        approached the rising House of Letters to commission a constructed
                        language that could be widely taught. The language ended up being
                        created to a great extent as a kind of tribute to the Queen herself.
                        (i.e. the word 'queen', noun, feminine, immortal singular, is actually
                        the Queen's own name). This was a combination of a control-freak
                        monarch who loved watching people squirm, a collection of scholars who
                        were terrified of her, and an immortal lifespan to make sure the
                        language reached full permutation among the subjects of the empire.

                        After the Queen's eventual death, the language continued in the
                        remnants of the great Houses established under her rule, and if one
                        agency could be said to 'regulate' it, it would certainly be the House
                        of Letters and their acolytes. That being said, this regulation is
                        more like an older generation constantly correcting the new-fangled
                        grammar of a younger generation as a language evolves, since in this
                        case, the speakers (in a few cases, the primary designers) of the
                        language are immortal. Language shift occurs mainly in those Houses
                        that still focus on expansion or acquisition of new members. Mastery
                        of the language in its original form is something of a Shibboleth test
                        for those still faithful to the memory of their Queen.
                      • Roger Mills
                        There are many Kash nations and Gwr nations on the two largish continents and several islands, and many distinct languages with dialects (none discovered as
                        Message 11 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                          There are many Kash nations and Gwr nations on the two largish continents and several islands, and many distinct languages with dialects (none discovered as yet :-( however). Some of these nations may have language academies, but I suspect most do not, just as here on Terra.

                          The Kash lang. that exists on my website is spoken, with some dialectal variations, in 4 of the five states on the Australia-size island of Yanatros. AFAIK there is no academy except  MOI.....
                          The 5th state, Andoli, was settled by people from a difference region of Hanjomim continent, and they do speak a different and not mutually intelligible language, albeit ult. related to Kash-- all Kash languages are ult. related, though some may be quite divergent (think Hindi and Swedish).

                          Prevli is not yet even a written languages, and has several regional/tribal dialects. There is no academy. Elders and shamans determine what is proper usage in their area, and try to keep Kash loanwords to a minimum, but as the modern world impinges more and more on their culture, that's a losing battle, just as it is in France.

                          At present, then, there are only three language families on the entire planet that I know of, which may seem anomalous. It is possible that there is, or has been, more than one Gwr family, but not Kash not Prevli ( a tiny minority of the total population of ca. 1billion).
                        • Padraic Brown
                          ... In IB, Dunein has had its share of language boards and bureaux since at least the late 18th century which were certainly going strong in the 19th and
                          Message 12 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                            --- On Mon, 8/27/12, Anthony Miles <mamercus88@...> wrote:

                            > I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers
                            > (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only
                            > linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your
                            > conlang, if anybody does.

                            In IB, Dunein has had its share of language boards and bureaux since at
                            least the late 18th century which were certainly going strong in the
                            19th and becoming ever more futile into the 20th. Of course, so early on,
                            they weren't language boards so much as keen noblemen with nothing better
                            to do than sit round a table over at Malloys, poring over dusty grammars
                            and aged manuscripts. Officially sanctioned boards came about in the early
                            19th century.

                            In some respects both a parallel and a parody of the Cornish language
                            situation *here* over the last 200 years, it certainly has all the
                            grammatical bickering, dialect dissing and spelling reform haranguing that
                            a load of cane-wielding gray-bearded old academics could possibly get up
                            to.

                            By the time they ever got around to deciding that it was time to really
                            get to work on sorting out what the standard language should be like, so
                            many people had given up speaking it at all on account of the default
                            education system, the greater culture and most aspects of life in the
                            Kingdom were all in Brithenig anyway that no-one had much time for
                            impassioned arguments that had not been settled since the 1880s.

                            Last time they did a study, the use of Brithenig as a language of daily
                            life had progressed almost all the way to Ysca / Exeter. That was in the
                            1990s, and by then the boards had clearly outlived all usefulness and the
                            High King abolished the lot of them.

                            ==

                            In the World, there are no language boards per se. Education in most places
                            is fairly elementary, if you get educated at all, and there's just not much
                            need for the services of a language regulating body.

                            I suppose if anyone has such a thing, it would be the Remans in the
                            Uttermost West. Very religious people. They have priesthoods that regulate
                            everything else, so I wouldn't be surprised if they promulgate the
                            standards for good language use. But then, twould almost certainly be
                            only the ancient religious language they regulate. Ordinary languages are
                            not regulated.

                            Apart from them, the only group that is interested in language regulation
                            is the Brotherhood of Fourteen. A load of old academicals at Alixaundria
                            who *say* they are in the process of discovering the Original and Perfect
                            Language, but really they just sit around the dinner table gabbing about
                            this and that. Composing clever "philosophiofictiones", playing at games
                            of "whispers in the lane" and the like.

                            If they think anyone's listening, they start going on about things like
                            the nature of 'anti-middle paradigmatics' or the 'non-volitional nature of
                            sentient but inanimate beings' or the 'pragmatics of the pentagrammatical
                            continuum vs. the octapuntal polyscale as regards the classification of
                            glossophoric schemata'. Frankly, I think they're just having too much fun!

                            Padraic
                          • Michael Everson
                            ... Kadäm Bevünetik Volapüka http://volapük.com/kadam/ Michael Everson
                            Message 13 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                              On 27 Aug 2012, at 05:24, Anthony Miles wrote:

                              > Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the Siye-speakers (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic (and only linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does.

                              Kadäm Bevünetik Volapüka
                              http://volapük.com/kadam/

                              Michael Everson
                            • David McCann
                              On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:07 -0400 ... As a minority language in Orsinia, Liburnese doesn t have a government to regulate it. They did have a conference of the
                              Message 14 of 19 , Aug 27, 2012
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                                On Mon, 27 Aug 2012 00:24:07 -0400
                                Anthony Miles <mamercus88@...> wrote:

                                > Possibly this belongs on conculture, but it is a language-specific
                                > question. I had not considered the issue until I invented the
                                > Siye-speakers (Simayam, perhaps) and their narrow brand of linguistic
                                > (and only linguistic) imperialism, but who, in-world, regulates your
                                > conlang, if anybody does. I'm sure Ttuan has a board of three and an
                                > official lexicon!

                                As a minority language in Orsinia, Liburnese doesn't have a government
                                to regulate it. They did have a conference of the great and the good at
                                Sant-Antunh that fixed the orthography, but that wasn't until 1924. It
                                had to tread a delicate line between making the language look Romance
                                rather than Slavic, but not making it look like Italian; the ongoing
                                border dispute in Istria would have made that seem unpatriotic.
                              • Elena ``of Valhalla''
                                Hello I m a first time poster of this list and not a native english speaker, sorry for any mistake. ... My tentatively named zadilioþ doesn t have a
                                Message 15 of 19 , Aug 28, 2012
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                                  Hello

                                  I'm a first time poster of this list and not a native english speaker,
                                  sorry for any mistake.

                                  On 2012-08-27 at 00:24:07 -0400, Anthony Miles wrote:
                                  > who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does.

                                  My tentatively named zadilioþ doesn't have a regulating body, there
                                  is no central government and very little reason to regulate
                                  in the conculture that uses it.

                                  On the other hand, the long lived (~500 years) quasihuman
                                  hunter-gatherers with lots of free time who (re)introduced
                                  it to the human population claimed that it was the "proper way
                                  to speak", and the common ancestor of all the human languages
                                  spoken around the world.

                                  Of course, the truth is that it is just another sister language,
                                  a descendant of said common ancestor that evolved less, but
                                  gained quite a few loans from the other, native, language spoken
                                  by the quasihumans, including the name of the language itself.

                                  --
                                  Elena ``of Valhalla''
                                • Adam Walker
                                  English is not the first language of quite a number of the regular contributors here, so you have lots of company. We have Swedes, Norwegians, Germans, Dutch,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Aug 28, 2012
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                                    English is not the first language of quite a number of the regular
                                    contributors here, so you have lots of company. We have Swedes,
                                    Norwegians, Germans, Dutch, French, Russians, Danes, Finns, Latvians,
                                    Italians, Czechs, (and who knows who I have missed!) who enrich the
                                    conversation and have had Colombians and Koreans and Greeks and Israelis
                                    and who knows who else in the past, Pluse we have speakers of every variety
                                    of English (Americans of every dialect, Canadians, Irish, English of myriad
                                    dialects, (do we have any Scots?), Welsh, South Africans, New Zealanders,
                                    Australians, Singaporeans, and half a bajillion others. No one will even
                                    notice if you ever do make a mistake, not in this stew -- though you may
                                    spawn YAEP/UT (Yet Another English Pronunciation/Usage Thread).

                                    Adam who said all that just to say WELCOME!



                                    On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 2:38 AM, Elena ``of Valhalla'' <
                                    elena.valhalla@...> wrote:

                                    > Hello
                                    >
                                    > I'm a first time poster of this list and not a native english speaker,
                                    > sorry for any mistake.
                                    >
                                    > On 2012-08-27 at 00:24:07 -0400, Anthony Miles wrote:
                                    > > who, in-world, regulates your conlang, if anybody does.
                                    >
                                    > My tentatively named zadilioþ doesn't have a regulating body, there
                                    > is no central government and very little reason to regulate
                                    > in the conculture that uses it.
                                    >
                                    > On the other hand, the long lived (~500 years) quasihuman
                                    > hunter-gatherers with lots of free time who (re)introduced
                                    > it to the human population claimed that it was the "proper way
                                    > to speak", and the common ancestor of all the human languages
                                    > spoken around the world.
                                    >
                                    > Of course, the truth is that it is just another sister language,
                                    > a descendant of said common ancestor that evolved less, but
                                    > gained quite a few loans from the other, native, language spoken
                                    > by the quasihumans, including the name of the language itself.
                                    >
                                    > --
                                    > Elena ``of Valhalla''
                                    >
                                  • David McCann
                                    On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:38:24 +0200 ... This sounds fascinating! I wanted to know who the Zadiloþ speakers were and what their relation with the humans was: I
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Aug 28, 2012
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                                      On Tue, 28 Aug 2012 09:38:24 +0200
                                      "Elena ``of Valhalla''" <elena.valhalla@...> wrote:

                                      > My tentatively named zadilioþ doesn't have a regulating body, there
                                      > is no central government and very little reason to regulate
                                      > in the conculture that uses it.
                                      >
                                      > On the other hand, the long lived (~500 years) quasihuman
                                      > hunter-gatherers with lots of free time who (re)introduced
                                      > it to the human population claimed that it was the "proper way
                                      > to speak", and the common ancestor of all the human languages
                                      > spoken around the world.

                                      This sounds fascinating! I wanted to know who the Zadiloþ speakers were
                                      and what their relation with the humans was: I hope you'll add this to
                                      your interesting website.
                                    • Peter Collier
                                      Lithuanians (of the gay, left-handed and bearded variety, of course!)? Welcome, Elena. P. ... From: Constructed Languages List
                                      Message 18 of 19 , Aug 28, 2012
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                                        Lithuanians (of the gay, left-handed and bearded variety, of course!)?

                                        Welcome, Elena.


                                        P.

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:CONLANG@...] On
                                        Behalf Of Adam Walker
                                        Sent: 28 August 2012 09:35
                                        To: CONLANG@...
                                        Subject: Re: Language Academies for Your Conlang

                                        English is not the first language of quite a number of the regular
                                        contributors here, so you have lots of company. We have [...] (and who
                                        knows who I have missed!) [...]
                                      • Anthony Miles
                                        As for my other conlangs, Na gifi Fasu xa, spoken on the post-apocalyptic Stone Age planet Ka manu in the Post-Catastrophe Semiramis Universe, has a script but
                                        Message 19 of 19 , Sep 5, 2012
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                                          As for my other conlangs, Na'gifi Fasu'xa, spoken on the post-apocalyptic Stone Age planet Ka'manu in the Post-Catastrophe Semiramis Universe, has a script but no academy. The 3000 speakers don't engage in much trade, but they do have a strong tradition of oral recitation which helps to standardize the language. Fortunatian probably has an academy shortly after the FIU European countries invent the concept.
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